Date   
Re: Florida Sunbeam via Crawford, FL?? and Southern OC-5

George Eichelberger
 

Steve:

Was the haulage not used because the plan was to shift the Palatka paper mill traffic to Triple Crown trucks out of Jacksonville?

And….

I included an “epilogue” about the Palatka line that was not published with the Hampton article that you may know something about.

The line was torn up from the ACL crossing (already abandoned) at Lake Butler to Palatka but the segment from Lake City to Lake Butler remained in place but unused as a potential route to get coal to the Gainesville Electric generation plant near Gainesville. The “word” in Florida was that Gainesville Electric would acquire the ACL roadbed south of Lake Butler, put tracks in place and receive coal via NS.

When CSX got word of the plan, they negotiated a long term lowball rate to keep the business away from NS. The Palatka line was torn up back to Lake City. (I do not know if the Sou/SAL crossing at Lake City exists today).

Can anyone confirm?

Ike

Re: Florida Sunbeam via Crawford, FL?? and Southern OC-5

sgwarner88@...
 

Interesting about the 1940's abandonment of the Palatka line.  During the "rush" re the "new era of NS-CST cooperation" in the 80's (Foley Line Trackage rights allowing CSXT to abandon an entire sub, the SC Project which remained a thorn in our side until Tony went to CSXT and solved it.  I was then involved (I was in Jack Martin's group, although it was a CP&D project) in the trade of CSXT Haulage Jax to Palatka in exchange for abandoning the southern end of the Palatka Line.  However, NS MKTG rarely used the haulage and we essentially left the Palatka Market, Seminole Electric notwithstanding.  So how did NS come out smelling like a rose after the "exciting cooperation?  More like a wilted flower.

moderated Re: ICC record interpretation help

A&Y Dave in MD
 

Thanks Ike. The A&Y is listed and liked under the Southern at NARA. The boxes i pulled often had notebooks for other Southern lines, main company, subsidiaries and wholly owned short lines.  I’m glad the A&Y was distinct at that time, or its records would only be in aggregate. The separate A&Y annual reports are gold for me!

I got field notes, value estimates, engineering notes for bridges and structures, and supplementals, but i could not find/get everything. After two days’ hunting they let me ‘behind the counter’ into the compact shelving rooms to go through the boxes (reminded me of end scene from Indiana Jones only all white, high tech version) because it was all mixed up (SRHA is not the only archive needing sorting and labeling—even the big guys have that problem!). I hope to get back, as it is only 45 min drive to NARA 2. They just aren’t open on weekends or holidays ☹️.

Dave



Sent from Dave Bott' iPhone

On Aug 19, 2019, at 9:44 AM, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:

There appear to be three bridges described in your example. The examples you posted look like they are from field notes. The quality and format of the notes depended on the two or three people in the group that did the field work for particular ICC accounts within each Val section. Different accounts, 16 for depots for example, had an architect and an "ICC man" go to each location, usually in milepost series within a Val section. While the field notes are good to have, the inventory submitted in 1927, or the Val section summaries would be the most accurate and complete.

SRHA archive volunteers are cleaning up the Val section summaries now. They will be available to anyone that goes to the archives for research but we have not decided to simply put all 2,200 summary scans on line. The detail pages are in the thousands, not all have been scanned. I've attached an example of one of the summary pages. (I note that NC Val Section 27 is NOT in the SRHA (i.e. Southern) file. It jumps from section 26 to 28 as the A&Y was responsible for the valuation of its railroad. The originals of everything should be at College Park, what SRHA has are the carbon copies of the 1916-27 study and the 6-31 and 12-31 changes sent to the ICC on paper every year until about 1965. The bi-annual reports are excellent to show "As and Bs" (Additions and Betterments) and when an item was removed from the accounts. Both the Southern and CofG summary reports have many hand written entries showing when a depot, water tower, etc was demolished, destroyed by fire, etc.

I think I posted the following some time in the past but here is a Google Drive link to the 20 or so page ICC instructions:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1vwp_eG1F2Kh9z1fcYy_gEfjlh8O6_y-m?usp=sharing

Note that the SRHA archives are the work of volunteers and people that donated cash to purchase private collections. We would appreciate hearing comments and suggests about HOW we should make copies or scans available. Should we establish some form of "subscription" that allows people to access and download scanned items, allow access only at the archives? Short of receiving a large grant to make everything freely available, some form of revenue needs to be established to help pay for the building, the electric bill, insurance, etc. Your comments please!

Ike
<VS-28_0015.jpg>

moderated Re: ICC record interpretation help

George Eichelberger
 

On second thought….

The A&Y Valuation data may (!) be in the Southern “short line” or “subsidiary” ledgers. They contain many union station and subsidiary files. None have been reviewed or scanned in detail..

Ike

moderated Re: ICC record interpretation help

George Eichelberger
 

There appear to be three bridges described in your example. The examples you posted look like they are from field notes. The quality and format of the notes depended on the two or three people in the group that did the field work for particular ICC accounts within each Val section. Different accounts, 16 for depots for example, had an architect and an "ICC man" go to each location, usually in milepost series within a Val section. While the field notes are good to have, the inventory submitted in 1927, or the Val section summaries would be the most accurate and complete.

SRHA archive volunteers are cleaning up the Val section summaries now. They will be available to anyone that goes to the archives for research but we have not decided to simply put all 2,200 summary scans on line. The detail pages are in the thousands, not all have been scanned. I've attached an example of one of the summary pages. (I note that NC Val Section 27 is NOT in the SRHA (i.e. Southern) file. It jumps from section 26 to 28 as the A&Y was responsible for the valuation of its railroad. The originals of everything should be at College Park, what SRHA has are the carbon copies of the 1916-27 study and the 6-31 and 12-31 changes sent to the ICC on paper every year until about 1965. The bi-annual reports are excellent to show "As and Bs" (Additions and Betterments) and when an item was removed from the accounts. Both the Southern and CofG summary reports have many hand written entries showing when a depot, water tower, etc was demolished, destroyed by fire, etc.

I think I posted the following some time in the past but here is a Google Drive link to the 20 or so page ICC instructions:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1vwp_eG1F2Kh9z1fcYy_gEfjlh8O6_y-m?usp=sharing

Note that the SRHA archives are the work of volunteers and people that donated cash to purchase private collections. We would appreciate hearing comments and suggests about HOW we should make copies or scans available. Should we establish some form of "subscription" that allows people to access and download scanned items, allow access only at the archives? Short of receiving a large grant to make everything freely available, some form of revenue needs to be established to help pay for the building, the electric bill, insurance, etc. Your comments please!

Ike

Florida Sunbeam via Crawford, FL?? and Southern OC-5

George Eichelberger
 

We had a productive work session at the SRHA/TVRM archives this weekend. When someone comes to the archives for the first time, we usually suggest that the simply open one of the Presidents' archive boxes and look through its contents. As every item will never be cataloged, or even seen, it is impossible to predict what might be found.

For those that read the article in the current "TIES" about the Southern/Seaboard junction at Hampton, FL, I found an interesting telegram while scanning the file on the post war "Florida Sunbeam" and "The New Royal Palm" (Box 523A, File 1).

Apparently, there had been discussions to abandon the Palatka line earlier than a telegram dated Sept. 13, 1945. (A logical idea; WWII was over and the logging and lumber operations at Palatka and along the St. Johns River were winding down. If the line had been abandoned, the Southern would have missed the development of the phosphate mines near Lake City and the large paper mill built outside of Palatka.)

The gist of the 9-13-1945 telegram was a suggestion to discuss moving the Sou/SAL route of the "Sunbeam" from Hampton to Crawford, FL. Crawford is on the GS&F between Valdosta and Jacksonville and would have removed the Sunbeam from the Palatka line completely. Although slightly longer, Sou. VP Harry DeButts, thought the schedule to and from St. Pete would be "just as good" because of the slow speed on the Palatka line. 

A third item in the short telegram mentioned that President Norris would approve operating the train but only if it included coaches and Pullmans rather than an all-Pullman train.

Dates for the remaining 2019 archives work sessions are posted on the SRHA web site at www.srha.net.

And...in late breaking TVRM news....Norfolk Southern Official Car No. 8 "Tennessee", ex Southern car No.5, has been acquired and will be moving to Chattanooga soon. The purchase price has been donated but probably another $60,000 will be needed for the move and to restore it as Southern 5. For potential operation off of TVRM, if possible, the car will be upgraded to Amtrak specifications (Much of that work has been completed.) The Hayne Shop maintenance records in the SRHA archives for car 5 begin with the conversion from Pullman car "Point Richmond" in 1956. Anyone interested in helping with the effort please contact me off list.

Ike

moderated Re: Enoree River

Paul Staller
 

Bill is correct.  The Southern did cross the Eno on the south end of Hillsborough NC.  It's successor (NS/NCRR) continues to do so and I'm very happy to report that during cooler weather I have the good fortune to be able fall asleep at night listening to the trains as they come through town.  What a lullaby.


On Fri, Aug 16, 2019, 4:37 PM Robert Hanson via Groups.Io <RHanson669=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
If there was, it is not listed in the Pullman List for 1961.


-----Original Message-----
From: rmorris_1 <rmorris52@...>
To: main <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Sent: Fri, Aug 16, 2019 3:52 pm
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Enoree River

Walthers has a decal sheet for a "Eno River."  Was there another car with a very similar name?  I wouldn't have thought so to avoid confusion.
Trying to detail a car.

Richard Morris

moderated Re: Enoree River

rmorris_1
 

Thanks for all the feedback, guys.  I will leave the "Eno River" on the sheet when it comes to lettering one of the 10-6's I have.

I had found lists of Southern sleepers, none listed it, but did have the Enoree River.

And I found out about the smooth-roofed cars that could have been Budd cars. Never knew, or had any reason to know, that Southern had added a smooth covering to the roofs of the Budds.  With the seams, I can see where they could flex and start leaking .

I am working to put together a Southern train to run behind a set of the Walthers E8s I just got. The train will run on our club layout in Crossville, TN, and I will have to deal with the rivet counters that point out inconsistencies. Hope they aren't to common there!

I grew in Atlanta, graduated from Ga Tech, and some afternoons to avoid the downtown connector I would go down Marietta Street. If I timed it right, I would see the engines and any extra cars for the northbound Crescent heading to Peachtree Station.  Usually four engines northbound, and three coming in from New Orleans, or at least the times I remember seeing them.

Richard Morris

Plans for typical Southern Ry. train order station

pschmidt3013@...
 

Anyone have a lead on plans for a typical Southern train order station? I'm particularly interested in the footprint -- what the dimensions of the foundation would be, and whether the foundation would be stone, concrete or timber.

Thank you,
--
Paul Schmidt
Sequim WA

moderated Re: Enoree River

Robert Hanson
 

Luther Calvin Norris (1846-1930) was the father of Southern Railway president Ernest E. Norris.

Bob Hanson
Loganville, GA




-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Schafer <bill4501@...>
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Sent: Sat, Aug 17, 2019 12:51 pm
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Enoree River

Yes, the Royal Arch was a 5 DBR-Obs-Lounge - one of three owned by the SOU built in 1950 for the Crescent and New Royal Palm, the other two being Royal Palm and Royal Court. In 1950, the Royal Arch’s name was changed to Luther Calvin Norris. I don’t know why - does anyone know who "Luther Calvin Norris" was? 1950 was about the time Southern’s president, Ernest Norris, retired - was this his father?

Anyway, the three obs cars were converted by Pullman to 11 DBR cars in September-October 1958 and remained in SOU’s Pullman car fleet into the post-Amtrak era (1971). From the time I started paying attention to SOU passenger trains (1966-present), I would occasionally see an 11 DBR car in service, but not in the timetable - they must have been used as extra cars, for special movements, and on office car specials. The Pullman Company may also have commandeered them from time to time for off-line special movements. Sometime in the early-1970s each of the three 11 DBR cars was equipped with a shower at the end of the hall. (10-6 sleeper Tugalo River was also shower equipped at the same time - I think Roomette 9 or 10 was sacrificed). If you happened to be riding the Southern Crescent when one of the four shower-equipped cars was in the consist, the porter would provide you with a towel and washcloth, and you could use the shower.

In 1974 or thereabouts (anybody remember the exact year?) the northbound Southern Crescent derailed somewhere around Eutaw, Ala. The Luther Calvin Norris was in the consist and damaged beyond repair. To my surprise, Hayne Shop was called on to convert 10-6 sleeper York River to a shower-equipped 11 DBR car, which was renamed Royal Arch

The car at NCTM-Spencer is this car, Royal Arch, which began life as the York River. If my memory serves me correctly, the car still looks like a 10-6 on the aisle side - three widely spaced windows opposite the original bedrooms and five more closely spaced windows where roomettes used to be. If Spencer ever gets around to restoring the car to its Southern Railway appearance, it would be cool if they named it Royal Arch on the bedroom side (where it looks like an 11 DBR car) and York River on the aisle side (where it looks like a 10-6). 

Just sayin’ . . .

—Bill Schafer

On Aug 17, 2019, at 11:29 AM, James <nsc39dash8@...> wrote:

The David Randall guide states Southern purchased 24(2400 - 2423) of the 46 10-6 sleepers in the order.  
Here are the names of the rivers from the Wiley and Wallace guidebook:
Alphalha
Altamaha
Dan
Catawba
Enoree
Flint
Omulgee
Otter
Pacolot
Potomac
Rapidian
Rivanna
Saluda
Seneca
Shenandoah
Rappahannock
St. John’s
Tiger
Tombigbee
Tugalo
Tye
Yadkin
York
Warrior

The CNOTP 3400 cars, 3400 - 3404:

Emory
French Broad
Coosa
Holston
Etowan

I pose this question to the group.  The Royal Arch was rebuilt to a 11 Bedroom sleeper from an observation car of the same name.  This car was involved in a wreck and my understanding is the York river was rebuilt to 11 bedroom to replace the Royal Arch.  Is this true?  The 11 bedroom Royal Arch is at the museum in Spencer should then be originally the York River.

James Wall

There's a diagram for the 10-Roomette-6 Double Bedroom car Enoree River (along with all the other cars in the series) in the 1956 Southern Railway passenger car diagram book in my possession, also a listing for the car in the 1961 Pullman Official List.

There's also a photo of the car on page 75 of David Randall's The Official Pullman-Standard Library - Vol. 7, Southeast Roads.

Bob Hanson
Loganville, GA




-----Original Message-----
From: O Fenton Wells <srrfan1401@...>
To: main <main@southernrailway.groups.io>
Sent: Sat, Aug 17, 2019 7:54 am
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Enoree River

The Southern Railway had three 10-6 'River'sleepers that had an "E" at the start, Emory River, Enoree River and Etowah River.  You can pick your favorite.
Fenton Wells

On Sat, Aug 17, 2019 at 4:47 AM Gary Bechdol <garyeb1947@...> wrote:
There is a picture of the 10-6 Pullman Enoree River on page 75 of W. David Randall's Pullman-Standard Library, Vol. 7.  There is no listing of a car named Eno River. 

Gary Bechdol 
Stone Mountain, Ga 

On Fri, Aug 16, 2019, 11:35 PM Jim Thurston <jthurston@...> wrote:
I assumed that the original post on this topic had a typo in the subject line, and that it should have read "Emory River" - but no one ever corrected it.

On the other hand, Ike posted a photo of the "Emory River" car. Reasonable evidence that a car by that name existed - although Ike is pretty good with Photoshop.

Geographically, there is such a thing as the "Enoree River" (in SC), but evidence a car was given that name does not seem to have emerged.

Jim Thurston


James Wall
Rural Hall, NC




moderated Re: Enoree River

Bill Schafer
 

Yes, the Royal Arch was a 5 DBR-Obs-Lounge - one of three owned by the SOU built in 1950 for the Crescent and New Royal Palm, the other two being Royal Palm and Royal Court. In 1950, the Royal Arch’s name was changed to Luther Calvin Norris. I don’t know why - does anyone know who "Luther Calvin Norris" was? 1950 was about the time Southern’s president, Ernest Norris, retired - was this his father?

Anyway, the three obs cars were converted by Pullman to 11 DBR cars in September-October 1958 and remained in SOU’s Pullman car fleet into the post-Amtrak era (1971). From the time I started paying attention to SOU passenger trains (1966-present), I would occasionally see an 11 DBR car in service, but not in the timetable - they must have been used as extra cars, for special movements, and on office car specials. The Pullman Company may also have commandeered them from time to time for off-line special movements. Sometime in the early-1970s each of the three 11 DBR cars was equipped with a shower at the end of the hall. (10-6 sleeper Tugalo River was also shower equipped at the same time - I think Roomette 9 or 10 was sacrificed). If you happened to be riding the Southern Crescent when one of the four shower-equipped cars was in the consist, the porter would provide you with a towel and washcloth, and you could use the shower.

In 1974 or thereabouts (anybody remember the exact year?) the northbound Southern Crescent derailed somewhere around Eutaw, Ala. The Luther Calvin Norris was in the consist and damaged beyond repair. To my surprise, Hayne Shop was called on to convert 10-6 sleeper York River to a shower-equipped 11 DBR car, which was renamed Royal Arch

The car at NCTM-Spencer is this car, Royal Arch, which began life as the York River. If my memory serves me correctly, the car still looks like a 10-6 on the aisle side - three widely spaced windows opposite the original bedrooms and five more closely spaced windows where roomettes used to be. If Spencer ever gets around to restoring the car to its Southern Railway appearance, it would be cool if they named it Royal Arch on the bedroom side (where it looks like an 11 DBR car) and York River on the aisle side (where it looks like a 10-6). 

Just sayin’ . . .

—Bill Schafer

On Aug 17, 2019, at 11:29 AM, James <nsc39dash8@...> wrote:

The David Randall guide states Southern purchased 24(2400 - 2423) of the 46 10-6 sleepers in the order.  
Here are the names of the rivers from the Wiley and Wallace guidebook:
Alphalha
Altamaha
Dan
Catawba
Enoree
Flint
Omulgee
Otter
Pacolot
Potomac
Rapidian
Rivanna
Saluda
Seneca
Shenandoah
Rappahannock
St. John’s
Tiger
Tombigbee
Tugalo
Tye
Yadkin
York
Warrior

The CNOTP 3400 cars, 3400 - 3404:

Emory
French Broad
Coosa
Holston
Etowan

I pose this question to the group.  The Royal Arch was rebuilt to a 11 Bedroom sleeper from an observation car of the same name.  This car was involved in a wreck and my understanding is the York river was rebuilt to 11 bedroom to replace the Royal Arch.  Is this true?  The 11 bedroom Royal Arch is at the museum in Spencer should then be originally the York River.

James Wall

There's a diagram for the 10-Roomette-6 Double Bedroom car Enoree River (along with all the other cars in the series) in the 1956 Southern Railway passenger car diagram book in my possession, also a listing for the car in the 1961 Pullman Official List.

There's also a photo of the car on page 75 of David Randall's The Official Pullman-Standard Library - Vol. 7, Southeast Roads.

Bob Hanson
Loganville, GA




-----Original Message-----
From: O Fenton Wells <srrfan1401@...>
To: main <main@southernrailway.groups.io>
Sent: Sat, Aug 17, 2019 7:54 am
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Enoree River

The Southern Railway had three 10-6 'River'sleepers that had an "E" at the start, Emory River, Enoree River and Etowah River.  You can pick your favorite.
Fenton Wells

On Sat, Aug 17, 2019 at 4:47 AM Gary Bechdol <garyeb1947@...> wrote:
There is a picture of the 10-6 Pullman Enoree River on page 75 of W. David Randall's Pullman-Standard Library, Vol. 7.  There is no listing of a car named Eno River. 

Gary Bechdol 
Stone Mountain, Ga 

On Fri, Aug 16, 2019, 11:35 PM Jim Thurston <jthurston@...> wrote:
I assumed that the original post on this topic had a typo in the subject line, and that it should have read "Emory River" - but no one ever corrected it.

On the other hand, Ike posted a photo of the "Emory River" car. Reasonable evidence that a car by that name existed - although Ike is pretty good with Photoshop.

Geographically, there is such a thing as the "Enoree River" (in SC), but evidence a car was given that name does not seem to have emerged.

Jim Thurston


James Wall
Rural Hall, NC




moderated Re: Enoree River

James
 

The David Randall guide states Southern purchased 24(2400 - 2423) of the 46 10-6 sleepers in the order.  
Here are the names of the rivers from the Wiley and Wallace guidebook:
Alphalha
Altamaha
Dan
Catawba
Enoree
Flint
Omulgee
Otter
Pacolot
Potomac
Rapidian
Rivanna
Saluda
Seneca
Shenandoah
Rappahannock
St. John’s
Tiger
Tombigbee
Tugalo
Tye
Yadkin
York
Warrior

The CNOTP 3400 cars, 3400 - 3404:

Emory
French Broad
Coosa
Holston
Etowan

I pose this question to the group.  The Royal Arch was rebuilt to a 11 Bedroom sleeper from an observation car of the same name.  This car was involved in a wreck and my understanding is the York river was rebuilt to 11 bedroom to replace the Royal Arch.  Is this true?  The 11 bedroom Royal Arch is at the museum in Spencer should then be originally the York River.

James Wall

There's a diagram for the 10-Roomette-6 Double Bedroom car Enoree River (along with all the other cars in the series) in the 1956 Southern Railway passenger car diagram book in my possession, also a listing for the car in the 1961 Pullman Official List.

There's also a photo of the car on page 75 of David Randall's The Official Pullman-Standard Library - Vol. 7, Southeast Roads.

Bob Hanson
Loganville, GA




-----Original Message-----
From: O Fenton Wells <srrfan1401@...>
To: main <main@southernrailway.groups.io>
Sent: Sat, Aug 17, 2019 7:54 am
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Enoree River

The Southern Railway had three 10-6 'River'sleepers that had an "E" at the start, Emory River, Enoree River and Etowah River.  You can pick your favorite.
Fenton Wells

On Sat, Aug 17, 2019 at 4:47 AM Gary Bechdol <garyeb1947@...> wrote:
There is a picture of the 10-6 Pullman Enoree River on page 75 of W. David Randall's Pullman-Standard Library, Vol. 7.  There is no listing of a car named Eno River. 

Gary Bechdol 
Stone Mountain, Ga 

On Fri, Aug 16, 2019, 11:35 PM Jim Thurston <jthurston@...> wrote:
I assumed that the original post on this topic had a typo in the subject line, and that it should have read "Emory River" - but no one ever corrected it.

On the other hand, Ike posted a photo of the "Emory River" car. Reasonable evidence that a car by that name existed - although Ike is pretty good with Photoshop.

Geographically, there is such a thing as the "Enoree River" (in SC), but evidence a car was given that name does not seem to have emerged.

Jim Thurston


James Wall
Rural Hall, NC



moderated Re: Enoree River

Doug Alexander
 

If Ike was all that with Photoshop, he’d have shown us a photo of the Eichelberger River!

Doug Alexander

Sent from my portable UNIVAC Computational Machine.

On Aug 16, 2019, at 11:35 PM, Jim Thurston <jthurston@...> wrote:

I assumed that the original post on this topic had a typo in the subject line, and that it should have read "Emory River" - but no one ever corrected it.

On the other hand, Ike posted a photo of the "Emory River" car. Reasonable evidence that a car by that name existed - although Ike is pretty good with Photoshop.

Geographically, there is such a thing as the "Enoree River" (in SC), but evidence a car was given that name does not seem to have emerged.

Jim Thurston


From: "Doug Alexander" <doug_alexander@...>
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io
Sent: Friday, August 16, 2019 11:04:48 PM
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Enoree River

So Bill, was there in fact a 10-6 named “Eno River”? I don’t recall any by that name   

Doug Alexander

Sent from my portable UNIVAC Computational Machine.

On Aug 16, 2019, at 4:34 PM, Bill Schafer <bill4501@...> wrote:

Doug:

The Southern does indeed cross the Eno River, at Hillsborough, N.C., just east of Durham. The railroad crossed more rivers than it owned sleeping cars, so not every river received the honor of having a car named after it!

—Bill

On Aug 16, 2019, at 4:22 PM, Doug Alexander <doug_alexander@...> wrote:

Richard, 

Southern named their 10-6 Pullman cars for rivers the railroad crossed.  There were scores of them.  And of course, not a one comes to mind at this moment.  But I don't know of an Eno River on the Southern.  There was an Enory River, I think....

Ah well.

Doug A.



On Friday, August 16, 2019, 03:52:03 PM EDT, rmorris_1 <rmorris52@...> wrote:


Walthers has a decal sheet for a "Eno River."  Was there another car with a very similar name?  I wouldn't have thought so to avoid confusion.
Trying to detail a car.

Richard Morris


moderated Re: Enoree River

Robert Hanson
 

There's a diagram for the 10-Roomette-6 Double Bedroom car Enoree River (along with all the other cars in the series) in the 1956 Southern Railway passenger car diagram book in my possession, also a listing for the car in the 1961 Pullman Official List.

There's also a photo of the car on page 75 of David Randall's The Official Pullman-Standard Library - Vol. 7, Southeast Roads.

Bob Hanson
Loganville, GA




-----Original Message-----
From: O Fenton Wells <srrfan1401@...>
To: main <main@southernrailway.groups.io>
Sent: Sat, Aug 17, 2019 7:54 am
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Enoree River

The Southern Railway had three 10-6 'River'sleepers that had an "E" at the start, Emory River, Enoree River and Etowah River.  You can pick your favorite.
Fenton Wells

On Sat, Aug 17, 2019 at 4:47 AM Gary Bechdol <garyeb1947@...> wrote:
There is a picture of the 10-6 Pullman Enoree River on page 75 of W. David Randall's Pullman-Standard Library, Vol. 7.  There is no listing of a car named Eno River. 

Gary Bechdol 
Stone Mountain, Ga 

On Fri, Aug 16, 2019, 11:35 PM Jim Thurston <jthurston@...> wrote:
I assumed that the original post on this topic had a typo in the subject line, and that it should have read "Emory River" - but no one ever corrected it.

On the other hand, Ike posted a photo of the "Emory River" car. Reasonable evidence that a car by that name existed - although Ike is pretty good with Photoshop.

Geographically, there is such a thing as the "Enoree River" (in SC), but evidence a car was given that name does not seem to have emerged.

Jim Thurston


From: "Doug Alexander" <doug_alexander@...>
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io
Sent: Friday, August 16, 2019 11:04:48 PM
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Enoree River

So Bill, was there in fact a 10-6 named “Eno River”? I don’t recall any by that name   

Doug Alexander

Sent from my portable UNIVAC Computational Machine.

On Aug 16, 2019, at 4:34 PM, Bill Schafer <bill4501@...> wrote:

Doug:

The Southern does indeed cross the Eno River, at Hillsborough, N.C., just east of Durham. The railroad crossed more rivers than it owned sleeping cars, so not every river received the honor of having a car named after it!

—Bill

On Aug 16, 2019, at 4:22 PM, Doug Alexander <doug_alexander@...> wrote:

Richard, 

Southern named their 10-6 Pullman cars for rivers the railroad crossed.  There were scores of them.  And of course, not a one comes to mind at this moment.  But I don't know of an Eno River on the Southern.  There was an Enory River, I think....

Ah well.

Doug A.



On Friday, August 16, 2019, 03:52:03 PM EDT, rmorris_1 <rmorris52@...> wrote:


Walthers has a decal sheet for a "Eno River."  Was there another car with a very similar name?  I wouldn't have thought so to avoid confusion.
Trying to detail a car.

Richard Morris




--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...

moderated Re: Enoree River

O Fenton Wells
 

The Southern Railway had three 10-6 'River'sleepers that had an "E" at the start, Emory River, Enoree River and Etowah River.  You can pick your favorite.
Fenton Wells

On Sat, Aug 17, 2019 at 4:47 AM Gary Bechdol <garyeb1947@...> wrote:
There is a picture of the 10-6 Pullman Enoree River on page 75 of W. David Randall's Pullman-Standard Library, Vol. 7.  There is no listing of a car named Eno River. 

Gary Bechdol 
Stone Mountain, Ga 

On Fri, Aug 16, 2019, 11:35 PM Jim Thurston <jthurston@...> wrote:
I assumed that the original post on this topic had a typo in the subject line, and that it should have read "Emory River" - but no one ever corrected it.

On the other hand, Ike posted a photo of the "Emory River" car. Reasonable evidence that a car by that name existed - although Ike is pretty good with Photoshop.

Geographically, there is such a thing as the "Enoree River" (in SC), but evidence a car was given that name does not seem to have emerged.

Jim Thurston


From: "Doug Alexander" <doug_alexander@...>
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io
Sent: Friday, August 16, 2019 11:04:48 PM
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Enoree River

So Bill, was there in fact a 10-6 named “Eno River”? I don’t recall any by that name   

Doug Alexander

Sent from my portable UNIVAC Computational Machine.

On Aug 16, 2019, at 4:34 PM, Bill Schafer <bill4501@...> wrote:

Doug:

The Southern does indeed cross the Eno River, at Hillsborough, N.C., just east of Durham. The railroad crossed more rivers than it owned sleeping cars, so not every river received the honor of having a car named after it!

—Bill

On Aug 16, 2019, at 4:22 PM, Doug Alexander <doug_alexander@...> wrote:

Richard, 

Southern named their 10-6 Pullman cars for rivers the railroad crossed.  There were scores of them.  And of course, not a one comes to mind at this moment.  But I don't know of an Eno River on the Southern.  There was an Enory River, I think....

Ah well.

Doug A.



On Friday, August 16, 2019, 03:52:03 PM EDT, rmorris_1 <rmorris52@...> wrote:


Walthers has a decal sheet for a "Eno River."  Was there another car with a very similar name?  I wouldn't have thought so to avoid confusion.
Trying to detail a car.

Richard Morris




--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...

moderated Re: Enoree River

Gary Bechdol
 

There is a picture of the 10-6 Pullman Enoree River on page 75 of W. David Randall's Pullman-Standard Library, Vol. 7.  There is no listing of a car named Eno River. 

Gary Bechdol 
Stone Mountain, Ga 

On Fri, Aug 16, 2019, 11:35 PM Jim Thurston <jthurston@...> wrote:
I assumed that the original post on this topic had a typo in the subject line, and that it should have read "Emory River" - but no one ever corrected it.

On the other hand, Ike posted a photo of the "Emory River" car. Reasonable evidence that a car by that name existed - although Ike is pretty good with Photoshop.

Geographically, there is such a thing as the "Enoree River" (in SC), but evidence a car was given that name does not seem to have emerged.

Jim Thurston


From: "Doug Alexander" <doug_alexander@...>
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io
Sent: Friday, August 16, 2019 11:04:48 PM
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Enoree River

So Bill, was there in fact a 10-6 named “Eno River”? I don’t recall any by that name   

Doug Alexander

Sent from my portable UNIVAC Computational Machine.

On Aug 16, 2019, at 4:34 PM, Bill Schafer <bill4501@...> wrote:

Doug:

The Southern does indeed cross the Eno River, at Hillsborough, N.C., just east of Durham. The railroad crossed more rivers than it owned sleeping cars, so not every river received the honor of having a car named after it!

—Bill

On Aug 16, 2019, at 4:22 PM, Doug Alexander <doug_alexander@...> wrote:

Richard, 

Southern named their 10-6 Pullman cars for rivers the railroad crossed.  There were scores of them.  And of course, not a one comes to mind at this moment.  But I don't know of an Eno River on the Southern.  There was an Enory River, I think....

Ah well.

Doug A.



On Friday, August 16, 2019, 03:52:03 PM EDT, rmorris_1 <rmorris52@...> wrote:


Walthers has a decal sheet for a "Eno River."  Was there another car with a very similar name?  I wouldn't have thought so to avoid confusion.
Trying to detail a car.

Richard Morris


moderated Re: Enoree River

Bill Schafer
 

Enoree River - yes
Eno River - no, no, a thousand times no. 


Another iPhone-generated message

On Aug 16, 2019, at 23:04, Doug Alexander <doug_alexander@...> wrote:

So Bill, was there in fact a 10-6 named “Eno River”? I don’t recall any by that name   

Doug Alexander

Sent from my portable UNIVAC Computational Machine.

On Aug 16, 2019, at 4:34 PM, Bill Schafer <bill4501@...> wrote:

Doug:

The Southern does indeed cross the Eno River, at Hillsborough, N.C., just east of Durham. The railroad crossed more rivers than it owned sleeping cars, so not every river received the honor of having a car named after it!

—Bill

On Aug 16, 2019, at 4:22 PM, Doug Alexander <doug_alexander@...> wrote:

Richard, 

Southern named their 10-6 Pullman cars for rivers the railroad crossed.  There were scores of them.  And of course, not a one comes to mind at this moment.  But I don't know of an Eno River on the Southern.  There was an Enory River, I think....

Ah well.

Doug A.



On Friday, August 16, 2019, 03:52:03 PM EDT, rmorris_1 <rmorris52@...> wrote:


Walthers has a decal sheet for a "Eno River."  Was there another car with a very similar name?  I wouldn't have thought so to avoid confusion.
Trying to detail a car.

Richard Morris

moderated Re: Enoree River

Jim Thurston
 

I assumed that the original post on this topic had a typo in the subject line, and that it should have read "Emory River" - but no one ever corrected it.

On the other hand, Ike posted a photo of the "Emory River" car. Reasonable evidence that a car by that name existed - although Ike is pretty good with Photoshop.

Geographically, there is such a thing as the "Enoree River" (in SC), but evidence a car was given that name does not seem to have emerged.

Jim Thurston


From: "Doug Alexander" <doug_alexander@...>
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io
Sent: Friday, August 16, 2019 11:04:48 PM
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Enoree River

So Bill, was there in fact a 10-6 named “Eno River”? I don’t recall any by that name   

Doug Alexander

Sent from my portable UNIVAC Computational Machine.

On Aug 16, 2019, at 4:34 PM, Bill Schafer <bill4501@...> wrote:

Doug:

The Southern does indeed cross the Eno River, at Hillsborough, N.C., just east of Durham. The railroad crossed more rivers than it owned sleeping cars, so not every river received the honor of having a car named after it!

—Bill

On Aug 16, 2019, at 4:22 PM, Doug Alexander <doug_alexander@...> wrote:

Richard, 

Southern named their 10-6 Pullman cars for rivers the railroad crossed.  There were scores of them.  And of course, not a one comes to mind at this moment.  But I don't know of an Eno River on the Southern.  There was an Enory River, I think....

Ah well.

Doug A.



On Friday, August 16, 2019, 03:52:03 PM EDT, rmorris_1 <rmorris52@...> wrote:


Walthers has a decal sheet for a "Eno River."  Was there another car with a very similar name?  I wouldn't have thought so to avoid confusion.
Trying to detail a car.

Richard Morris


moderated Re: Enoree River

Doug Alexander
 

So Bill, was there in fact a 10-6 named “Eno River”? I don’t recall any by that name   

Doug Alexander

Sent from my portable UNIVAC Computational Machine.

On Aug 16, 2019, at 4:34 PM, Bill Schafer <bill4501@...> wrote:

Doug:

The Southern does indeed cross the Eno River, at Hillsborough, N.C., just east of Durham. The railroad crossed more rivers than it owned sleeping cars, so not every river received the honor of having a car named after it!

—Bill

On Aug 16, 2019, at 4:22 PM, Doug Alexander <doug_alexander@...> wrote:

Richard, 

Southern named their 10-6 Pullman cars for rivers the railroad crossed.  There were scores of them.  And of course, not a one comes to mind at this moment.  But I don't know of an Eno River on the Southern.  There was an Enory River, I think....

Ah well.

Doug A.



On Friday, August 16, 2019, 03:52:03 PM EDT, rmorris_1 <rmorris52@...> wrote:


Walthers has a decal sheet for a "Eno River."  Was there another car with a very similar name?  I wouldn't have thought so to avoid confusion.
Trying to detail a car.

Richard Morris

moderated Re: Enoree River

Robert Hanson
 

If there was, it is not listed in the Pullman List for 1961.


-----Original Message-----
From: rmorris_1 <rmorris52@...>
To: main <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Sent: Fri, Aug 16, 2019 3:52 pm
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Enoree River

Walthers has a decal sheet for a "Eno River."  Was there another car with a very similar name?  I wouldn't have thought so to avoid confusion.
Trying to detail a car.

Richard Morris