Date   
Pullman Co data in the SRHA Archives

George Eichelberger
 

 As we continue to organize the material in the SRHA archives, new topic "categories" to be researched are discovered at virtually every archives work session.

Box 543 (Files 10,753 through 10,756) is one of several that contain correspondence to and from President E.E. Norris and the Pullman Co. Many items track the decline of passenger services after WWII but others include information on other significant events. Everyone is probably aware of much military traffic the railroad handled during WWII but the Korean War presented some of the same issues to railroads and the Pullman Co. At the same Pullman was preparing to reduce equipment and services, they were asked to put cars back in service for Gov't use.

The attached three-page letter to officers of the "Pullman Contract Railroads" dated September 29, 1950 describes the need to refurbish 321 "NAC" (non-air conditioned) tourist cars.

Ike

PS The next SRHA archives work session will be next Friday and Saturday. It is the same weekend as the L&NHS convention so several of us will be starting Thursday afternoon through Sunday afternoon. Among other L&NHS activities, Southern 4501 will appear as an L&N 2-8-2 (headlight, whistle and lettering) for a trip into N. GA. Everyone is welcome to register for the convention and visit and work in the archives.

moderated Re: Nashville-NYC sleeper on the Tennesseean

C J Wyatt
 

Ike, you misread it. 

The line was getting truncated to Bristol, so it did not run to NY. However by 1943, that line no. 2650 was extended to Washington DC and continued so (not sure what happened when the short Pullman lines were stopped later in the war) for a while after the war before getting cut back to Bristol again.

Jack Wyatt

On Saturday, August 31, 2019, 05:46:51 PM EDT, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:


Something for the Official Guide fans among us. From Southern Railway Presidents' file Boxes 490 & 491, Files 10275, 78, 81 & 82 (884 scans).

Did the service actually begin? If so, obviously, with a connection at Chattanooga. Did the car stay on the Tennessean north of Bristol to DC or change to an N&W train? If so, how did it get to NYC?

Ike 

moderated Re: Nashville-NYC sleeper on the Tennesseean

Robert Hanson
 

Ike - 

A "quick-and-dirty" check of the Guide shows that the service did, indeed, begin and it was a Bristol-Nashville service.

Service was provided by a 12Sec-1DR sleeper.

How long the service lasted, I don't know.  The Guide I checked was from April of 1949 and showed the car as originating and terminating at Bristol, with no service beyond to New York City. (at least on the Nashville car.)

This was in 1949, though.  The car may have gone through in earlier years.  (Just checked - the December 1941 Guide also shows the car terminating and originating at Bristol.)

That's what I found with a nickel's worth of research.

Bob Hanson
Loganville, GA


-----Original Message-----
From: George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...>
To: main <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Sent: Sat, Aug 31, 2019 5:47 pm
Subject: [SouthernRailway] Nashville-NYC sleeper on the Tennesseean

Something for the Official Guide fans among us. From Southern Railway Presidents' file Boxes 490 & 491, Files 10275, 78, 81 & 82 (884 scans).

Did the service actually begin? If so, obviously, with a connection at Chattanooga. Did the car stay on the Tennessean north of Bristol to DC or change to an N&W train? If so, how did it get to NYC?

Ike 

moderated Nashville-NYC sleeper on the Tennesseean

George Eichelberger
 

Something for the Official Guide fans among us. From Southern Railway Presidents' file Boxes 490 & 491, Files 10275, 78, 81 & 82 (884 scans).

Did the service actually begin? If so, obviously, with a connection at Chattanooga. Did the car stay on the Tennessean north of Bristol to DC or change to an N&W train? If so, how did it get to NYC?

Ike 

moderated Re: Wright Trak models

George Eichelberger
 

Oooops!

I’m wrong…TVRM Founders Day is not the same weekend as the L&N&H and archives work session..it;s the 7th. Good reason to go to TVRM twice.

Ike


On Aug 29, 2019, at 8:05 PM, Warren Calloway <wcalloway@...> wrote:

I was under the impression that they bought all the Southern related Wright Trak models, but I may be wrong!

Warren Calloway


On Aug 29, 2019, at 6:57 PM, Gary Olszewski <go.1955@...> wrote:

Hi,

 I was directed to this group from members of the IC Modelers group on IO. I have two Wright Trak IC Centralia Porch caboose models and one of them is missing the underframe. A member said the Southern Society has purchased all of Wright Trak's molds. If this is true how can  I go about obtaining my missing part? If this information is incorrect, can anyone direct me in contacting Gary or someone who might be able to help.
 I have also sent a note to Gary at the Georgia address on the box and I'm waiting for a response.

Thanks for any help in this matter,
Gary Olszewski

moderated Re: Wright Trak models

George Eichelberger
 

I’m not sure I can claim to be “in the know” but I can confirm SRHA purchased The WrightTrak Southern prototype models. SRHA did not acquire any parts or kits from Gary but we do not expect him to sell any Southern parts if he retained some inventory.

SRHA purchased a few other examples but not the IC cabs. SRHA did not discuss those masters or models but if someone is interested, they could contact Gary and ask if he wants to sell them.

We hope that by the next SRHA work session (the same weekend as the TVRM “Founders Day” and the L&NHS convention at TVRM), we will have more information on the availability of several of the Southern models. (We don’t have a product name but there will be a change from WrightTrak.)

With everything going on at TVRM 9-20, 21 and 22 there is plenty of reasons for people to attend all three events. One of the newest additions to the TVRM roster, L&N “Cross Keys Tavern” (thanks Bob Ralph) will be there as well as 4501 as an L&N engine. Southern Budd (1949) diner 3307 may arrive from Amtrak at Beech Grove and we should know about when Norfolk Southern office car No. 8 (Southern No 5) will be arriving by truck from Madison, IL. 

(It is impossible to predict when important rolling stock becomes available to TVRM on short notice but decisions have to be made quickly. We are fortunate that money to purchase the three passenger cars, (and two Southern low side gondolas) has been donated but $ help is needed to get everything moved to Chattanooga and then to be restored. Now is an excellent time for folks to help preserve some important rolling stock on the largest operating railroad museum in the Southeast.)

Ike



On Aug 29, 2019, at 8:44 PM, Warren Calloway <wcalloway@...> wrote:

I might have heard it wrong. Maybe someone in the know will reply!

WC


On Aug 29, 2019, at 8:30 PM, Gary Olszewski <go.1955@...> wrote:

Warren,
 
Thanks for the information. I didn’t hear that. It was just they bought the molds.
 
Gary Olszewski
 
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
 

From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io> on behalf of Warren Calloway <wcalloway@...>
Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2019 6:05:43 PM
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Wright Trak models
 
I was under the impression that they bought all the Southern related Wright Trak models, but I may be wrong!

Warren Calloway


On Aug 29, 2019, at 6:57 PM, Gary Olszewski <go.1955@...> wrote:

Hi,

 I was directed to this group from members of the IC Modelers group on IO. I have two Wright Trak IC Centralia Porch caboose models and one of them is missing the underframe. A member said the Southern Society has purchased all of Wright Trak's molds. If this is true how can  I go about obtaining my missing part? If this information is incorrect, can anyone direct me in contacting Gary or someone who might be able to help.
 I have also sent a note to Gary at the Georgia address on the box and I'm waiting for a response.

Thanks for any help in this matter,
Gary Olszewski

moderated Re: Wright Trak models

Warren Calloway
 

I might have heard it wrong. Maybe someone in the know will reply!

WC


On Aug 29, 2019, at 8:30 PM, Gary Olszewski <go.1955@...> wrote:

Warren,

 

Thanks for the information. I didn’t hear that. It was just they bought the molds.

 

Gary Olszewski

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io> on behalf of Warren Calloway <wcalloway@...>
Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2019 6:05:43 PM
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Wright Trak models
 
I was under the impression that they bought all the Southern related Wright Trak models, but I may be wrong!

Warren Calloway


On Aug 29, 2019, at 6:57 PM, Gary Olszewski <go.1955@...> wrote:

Hi,

 I was directed to this group from members of the IC Modelers group on IO. I have two Wright Trak IC Centralia Porch caboose models and one of them is missing the underframe. A member said the Southern Society has purchased all of Wright Trak's molds. If this is true how can  I go about obtaining my missing part? If this information is incorrect, can anyone direct me in contacting Gary or someone who might be able to help.
 I have also sent a note to Gary at the Georgia address on the box and I'm waiting for a response.

Thanks for any help in this matter,
Gary Olszewski

moderated Re: Wright Trak models

Gary Olszewski
 

Warren,

 

Thanks for the information. I didn’t hear that. It was just they bought the molds.

 

Gary Olszewski

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io> on behalf of Warren Calloway <wcalloway@...>
Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2019 6:05:43 PM
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Wright Trak models
 
I was under the impression that they bought all the Southern related Wright Trak models, but I may be wrong!

Warren Calloway


On Aug 29, 2019, at 6:57 PM, Gary Olszewski <go.1955@...> wrote:

Hi,

 I was directed to this group from members of the IC Modelers group on IO. I have two Wright Trak IC Centralia Porch caboose models and one of them is missing the underframe. A member said the Southern Society has purchased all of Wright Trak's molds. If this is true how can  I go about obtaining my missing part? If this information is incorrect, can anyone direct me in contacting Gary or someone who might be able to help.
 I have also sent a note to Gary at the Georgia address on the box and I'm waiting for a response.

Thanks for any help in this matter,
Gary Olszewski

moderated Re: Wright Trak models

Warren Calloway
 

I was under the impression that they bought all the Southern related Wright Trak models, but I may be wrong!

Warren Calloway


On Aug 29, 2019, at 6:57 PM, Gary Olszewski <go.1955@...> wrote:

Hi,

 I was directed to this group from members of the IC Modelers group on IO. I have two Wright Trak IC Centralia Porch caboose models and one of them is missing the underframe. A member said the Southern Society has purchased all of Wright Trak's molds. If this is true how can  I go about obtaining my missing part? If this information is incorrect, can anyone direct me in contacting Gary or someone who might be able to help.
 I have also sent a note to Gary at the Georgia address on the box and I'm waiting for a response.

Thanks for any help in this matter,
Gary Olszewski

moderated Wright Trak models

Gary Olszewski
 

Hi,

 I was directed to this group from members of the IC Modelers group on IO. I have two Wright Trak IC Centralia Porch caboose models and one of them is missing the underframe. A member said the Southern Society has purchased all of Wright Trak's molds. If this is true how can  I go about obtaining my missing part? If this information is incorrect, can anyone direct me in contacting Gary or someone who might be able to help.
 I have also sent a note to Gary at the Georgia address on the box and I'm waiting for a response.

Thanks for any help in this matter,
Gary Olszewski

moderated Re: Smoky Mtn Model Works' web address updated

Jim King
 

I think I got that too … at least, my list of .IO lists shows both of the Southern groups had updated signature files.

 

Jim King

http://smokymountainmodelworks.com/

 


--
Jim King
http://smokymountainmodelworks.com

moderated Photo of Spartanburg

Bill Schafer
 

All:

For an upcoming article in TIES, I am looking for an image, taken from the Church Street overpass in Spartanburg, of the four trains meeting in Spartanburg’s station between 1950 and 1966. This apparently was a daily event, where the northbound and southbound Piedmont Limiteds paused and exchanged passengers, express, mail, and maybe cars, with the east and westbound Carolina Specials. I would appreciate obtaining an image that is suitable for publication. We will give credit to the source.

I know such images exist because I have seen them (somewhere) in the past. Thanks.

—Bill Schafer

moderated Re: Removing mold from a railroad print

A&Y Dave in MD
 

Are the photos dry? If not, dry them thoroughly as you can in cold dark dry location—air conditioned room helps, but a dry freezer is even better.  Then see if mold turns to powder that can be brushed off gently with soft brush or lint-free, e.g., microfiber, cloth.

If that does not work, you could test small section with dilute white vinegar (to kill mold with acid but dilute with water to protect image). The less you apply (like through spray mist bottle) the better.  Gently blot, and then ‘freeze dry’ and brush off as above.

There are other more sophisticated ways used by restoration archivists, but I have not tried them. The above worked on some photos that got a bit of mold from moisture after my house fire and were not sent out to be restored professionally 
(and covered by insurance!). They are not returned to perfection, but were ‘good enough’ for my needs.

I can check with my friend who restores books and photos at Michigan State archives if you need more aggressive techniques.

Dave


On Aug 26, 2019, at 4:40 PM, O Fenton Wells <srrfan1401@...> wrote:

I found an old print of a Southern Locomotive that I have had for years and it has some light brown mold on it.
Does anyone know how to remove the mold without damaging the print?
Fenton Wells

moderated Removing mold from a railroad print

O Fenton Wells
 

I found an old print of a Southern Locomotive that I have had for years and it has some light brown mold on it.
Does anyone know how to remove the mold without damaging the print?
Fenton Wells

moderated Re: Smoky Mtn Model Works' web address updated

Warren Calloway
 

Need to fix your signature line on your Email too!

WC


On Aug 25, 2019, at 6:59 PM, Jim King <jimking3@...> wrote:

It was pointed out to me today that my web address wasn’t working.  Thru some investigation, I found that WWW. is no longer used and, in fact, created a barrier for my web site to be uploaded to my server.  Please update your files to reflect the revised web link below.  Let me know if you have problems (testing shows this works OK but ya never know with ‘puters!).  Be sure to clear your web’s browser before updating my address.

 

Thank you.

 

Jim King

http://smokymountainmodelworks.com

 

 


--
Jim King
www.smokymountainmodelworks.com

moderated Smoky Mtn Model Works' web address updated

Jim King
 

It was pointed out to me today that my web address wasn’t working.  Thru some investigation, I found that WWW. is no longer used and, in fact, created a barrier for my web site to be uploaded to my server.  Please update your files to reflect the revised web link below.  Let me know if you have problems (testing shows this works OK but ya never know with ‘puters!).  Be sure to clear your web’s browser before updating my address.

 

Thank you.

 

Jim King

http://smokymountainmodelworks.com

 

 


--
Jim King
www.smokymountainmodelworks.com

moderated Need track chart for section of Murphy Branch

Jim King
 

Does someone have a track chart showing Canton and Balsam grades?  I have a complete track chart in paper form from Dillsboro/Sylva to Murphy but need to know about the other 2 significant grades on the branch.  Info will be used in my CD series now being put together.

 

Jim King

www.smokymountainmodelworks.com

 


--
Jim King
www.smokymountainmodelworks.com

moderated Re: Florida Sunbeam via Crawford, FL?? and Southern OC-5

George Eichelberger
 

Steve:

Was the haulage not used because the plan was to shift the Palatka paper mill traffic to Triple Crown trucks out of Jacksonville?

And….

I included an “epilogue” about the Palatka line that was not published with the Hampton article that you may know something about.

The line was torn up from the ACL crossing (already abandoned) at Lake Butler to Palatka but the segment from Lake City to Lake Butler remained in place but unused as a potential route to get coal to the Gainesville Electric generation plant near Gainesville. The “word” in Florida was that Gainesville Electric would acquire the ACL roadbed south of Lake Butler, put tracks in place and receive coal via NS.

When CSX got word of the plan, they negotiated a long term lowball rate to keep the business away from NS. The Palatka line was torn up back to Lake City. (I do not know if the Sou/SAL crossing at Lake City exists today).

Can anyone confirm?

Ike

moderated Re: Florida Sunbeam via Crawford, FL?? and Southern OC-5

sgwarner88@...
 

Interesting about the 1940's abandonment of the Palatka line.  During the "rush" re the "new era of NS-CST cooperation" in the 80's (Foley Line Trackage rights allowing CSXT to abandon an entire sub, the SC Project which remained a thorn in our side until Tony went to CSXT and solved it.  I was then involved (I was in Jack Martin's group, although it was a CP&D project) in the trade of CSXT Haulage Jax to Palatka in exchange for abandoning the southern end of the Palatka Line.  However, NS MKTG rarely used the haulage and we essentially left the Palatka Market, Seminole Electric notwithstanding.  So how did NS come out smelling like a rose after the "exciting cooperation?  More like a wilted flower.

moderated Re: ICC record interpretation help

A&Y Dave in MD
 

Thanks Ike. The A&Y is listed and liked under the Southern at NARA. The boxes i pulled often had notebooks for other Southern lines, main company, subsidiaries and wholly owned short lines.  I’m glad the A&Y was distinct at that time, or its records would only be in aggregate. The separate A&Y annual reports are gold for me!

I got field notes, value estimates, engineering notes for bridges and structures, and supplementals, but i could not find/get everything. After two days’ hunting they let me ‘behind the counter’ into the compact shelving rooms to go through the boxes (reminded me of end scene from Indiana Jones only all white, high tech version) because it was all mixed up (SRHA is not the only archive needing sorting and labeling—even the big guys have that problem!). I hope to get back, as it is only 45 min drive to NARA 2. They just aren’t open on weekends or holidays ☹️.

Dave



Sent from Dave Bott' iPhone

On Aug 19, 2019, at 9:44 AM, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:

There appear to be three bridges described in your example. The examples you posted look like they are from field notes. The quality and format of the notes depended on the two or three people in the group that did the field work for particular ICC accounts within each Val section. Different accounts, 16 for depots for example, had an architect and an "ICC man" go to each location, usually in milepost series within a Val section. While the field notes are good to have, the inventory submitted in 1927, or the Val section summaries would be the most accurate and complete.

SRHA archive volunteers are cleaning up the Val section summaries now. They will be available to anyone that goes to the archives for research but we have not decided to simply put all 2,200 summary scans on line. The detail pages are in the thousands, not all have been scanned. I've attached an example of one of the summary pages. (I note that NC Val Section 27 is NOT in the SRHA (i.e. Southern) file. It jumps from section 26 to 28 as the A&Y was responsible for the valuation of its railroad. The originals of everything should be at College Park, what SRHA has are the carbon copies of the 1916-27 study and the 6-31 and 12-31 changes sent to the ICC on paper every year until about 1965. The bi-annual reports are excellent to show "As and Bs" (Additions and Betterments) and when an item was removed from the accounts. Both the Southern and CofG summary reports have many hand written entries showing when a depot, water tower, etc was demolished, destroyed by fire, etc.

I think I posted the following some time in the past but here is a Google Drive link to the 20 or so page ICC instructions:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1vwp_eG1F2Kh9z1fcYy_gEfjlh8O6_y-m?usp=sharing

Note that the SRHA archives are the work of volunteers and people that donated cash to purchase private collections. We would appreciate hearing comments and suggests about HOW we should make copies or scans available. Should we establish some form of "subscription" that allows people to access and download scanned items, allow access only at the archives? Short of receiving a large grant to make everything freely available, some form of revenue needs to be established to help pay for the building, the electric bill, insurance, etc. Your comments please!

Ike
<VS-28_0015.jpg>