Date   
Re: Help Please -- Goldsboro Union Station & Modernized Coaches

Bill Schafer
 

IIRC, the coaches (I think there were two) assigned to trains 7-8 during the Amtrak limbo were modernized heavyweight single vestibule cars, each equipped with the “food service” required on these trains - a vending machine.  

My guess is that between 1971 and 1975, there was little to no variance on the cars used in this service.

—Bill

On Oct 14, 2019, at 12:31 PM, O Fenton Wells <srrfan1401@...> wrote:

I don't know the answer to your question whether the 52 seat single vestibule cars ran in those train, maybe Bill Schafer would know.  However, it is a good possibility as these cars ran all over the system.
As far as the interior of the cars I can' tell you the colors of the interiors when built although I do have a copy of a color chart that lists but does not show the colors. from the SRHA files from when I was doing a book on these cars.  It's hard to read as my copy is small but it's the best I can do.  I do have photos of the car interiors that I took but they would not be as built.  Probably from the late 1950's or 1960's reshopping.
I hope this helps,
Fenton

On Sun, Oct 13, 2019 at 9:17 PM bjarne@... <bjarne@...> wrote:
Gents:

I need your help please on two issues:

(1)  Does anyone remember what magazine had the article on Goldsboro Union Station?  Was it a SRR HS magazine or one of the ACL/SAL/SCL ones.  I thought I had clipped the article but now cant find it.

(2)  Does anyone know if there is an article on the SRR heavyweight single vestibule coaches rebuilt from Pullmans and used on Train 7-8 between Washington & Lynchburg and the Piedmont? I have the car sides from USP, the roof and a basic body kit from Branchline  -- and now need to be able to accurately install all of the "stuff" underneath the car in its proper order and paint the interior (which IIRC was in tones of grey?).

Thanks for your guidance.  I hope to write an article on this project -- sincerely,

/s/ Bjarne





-- 
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...
<1065 Coral and Grey seats.JPG><1065 Int. Toilet windows.JPG><1065 luggage rack.JPG><1065 Men sign in coach section.JPG>

Re: Help Please -- Goldsboro Union Station & Moderni zed Coaches

bjarne@juno.com
 

Thank you Fenton for the pictures. The colors look just like I remember them! Truly appreciate your help with this request. I hope you get the chance to write the article! Sincerely, Bjarne

Re: Help Please -- Goldsboro Union Station & Modernized Coaches

O Fenton Wells
 

I don't know the answer to your question whether the 52 seat single vestibule cars ran in those train, maybe Bill Schafer would know.  However, it is a good possibility as these cars ran all over the system.
As far as the interior of the cars I can' tell you the colors of the interiors when built although I do have a copy of a color chart that lists but does not show the colors. from the SRHA files from when I was doing a book on these cars.  It's hard to read as my copy is small but it's the best I can do.  I do have photos of the car interiors that I took but they would not be as built.  Probably from the late 1950's or 1960's reshopping.
I hope this helps,
Fenton

On Sun, Oct 13, 2019 at 9:17 PM bjarne@... <bjarne@...> wrote:
Gents:

I need your help please on two issues:

(1)  Does anyone remember what magazine had the article on Goldsboro Union Station?  Was it a SRR HS magazine or one of the ACL/SAL/SCL ones.  I thought I had clipped the article but now cant find it.

(2)  Does anyone know if there is an article on the SRR heavyweight single vestibule coaches rebuilt from Pullmans and used on Train 7-8 between Washington & Lynchburg and the Piedmont? I have the car sides from USP, the roof and a basic body kit from Branchline  -- and now need to be able to accurately install all of the "stuff" underneath the car in its proper order and paint the interior (which IIRC was in tones of grey?).

Thanks for your guidance.  I hope to write an article on this project -- sincerely,

/s/ Bjarne





--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...

Re: Help Please -- Goldsboro Union Station & Modernized Coaches

George Eichelberger
 

Bjarne:

I don’t remember anything about Goldsboro Union Station that has been published but I have been accumulating material for a TIES article. (Maybe also “Lines South” as it was a Southern/ACL/NS union station.) Look for the Goldsboro contracts in the list I published here before. I also found a Goldsboro reference in the SR Presidents’ files finding aids. I will look for those at the work session this Thurs-Sat.

We will also scan (OCR?) the passenger car drawings index this weekend. We have a more or less complete set of Southern passenger car drawings dating back to about 1904. (The drawings do not start earlier because the Southern did not acquire much new rolling stock in its first ten years or so.) Because the conversions were done at Hayne, we should have files and drawings.

The problem always is…we have more work to do in the archives than we have volunteers to do it. If people, or groups of people from the various “Southern” states will make plans to get to Chatt to work for a couple of days, we can schedule an ad-hoc work session almost anytime.

For anyone really serious about Southern rolling stock, after Southern office car #5 gets to TVRM, anyone that wants to learn about and work on 12” to the foot rolling stock, they are welcome to help.

Ike

Photo of Goldsboro Union Station 8-14-59 Ben Roberts collection, SRHA archives



On Oct 13, 2019, at 9:16 PM, bjarne@... wrote:

Gents:

I need your help please on two issues:

(1)  Does anyone remember what magazine had the article on Goldsboro Union Station?  Was it a SRR HS magazine or one of the ACL/SAL/SCL ones.  I thought I had clipped the article but now cant find it.

(2)  Does anyone know if there is an article on the SRR heavyweight single vestibule coaches rebuilt from Pullmans and used on Train 7-8 between Washington & Lynchburg and the Piedmont? I have the car sides from USP, the roof and a basic body kit from Branchline  -- and now need to be able to accurately install all of the "stuff" underneath the car in its proper order and paint the interior (which IIRC was in tones of grey?).

Thanks for your guidance.  I hope to write an article on this project -- sincerely,

/s/ Bjarne




Re: Help Please -- Goldsboro Union Station & Modernized Coaches

bjarne@juno.com
 

Gents:

I need your help please on two issues:

(1) Does anyone remember what magazine had the article on Goldsboro Union Station? Was it a SRR HS magazine or one of the ACL/SAL/SCL ones. I thought I had clipped the article but now cant find it.

(2) Does anyone know if there is an article on the SRR heavyweight single vestibule coaches rebuilt from Pullmans and used on Train 7-8 between Washington & Lynchburg and the Piedmont? I have the car sides from USP, the roof and a basic body kit from Branchline -- and now need to be able to accurately install all of the "stuff" underneath the car in its proper order and paint the interior (which IIRC was in tones of grey?).

Thanks for your guidance. I hope to write an article on this project -- sincerely,

/s/ Bjarne

Apple Catalina OS

Curtis Brookshire
 

I'm posting this across some different groups. Apple recently announced a new operating system named Catalina. I found out from a friend in Virginia who posts photos to his website that Catalina only supports 64 bit programs/files. 32 bit programs will not run on this OS. If you're an Apple user (Mac, MacBook, MacBook Pro etc.) you might want to determine what your content is before deciding whether to upgrade. For example: HOn3 io group users noticed their DVD collection of the Narrow Gauge and Short Line Gazette will not run with Catalina.

Curtis Brookshire
Pine Level NC

[ModelingTheSouthern] Green Light slogan debut

George Eichelberger
 

A cross post from “Modeling the Southern”…..

Begin forwarded message:

From: george eichelberger <geichelberger@...>
Subject: Re: [ModelingTheSouthern] Green Light slogan debut
Date: October 10, 2019 at 4:28:43 PM EDT

Scott:

You are certainly welcome…..

As a reminder, the next SRHA archives work session will be Fri and Sat the 18th and 19th of Oct. Several of us will be there starting late Thursday morning if anyone wants to come then.

I have not spoken to Tim Andrews at TVRM lately so I do not know if CSX has moved Southern dining car 3307 (Budd 1949) from Nashville to Chattanooga or what the plans are to move NS office car #8 (ex SR #5) from Madison , IL. I expect TVRM will move quickly to put 3307 in service. Everyone is welcome to help plan, work on (and help pay for!) the restoration of Southern #5.

We will continue to look for drawings, memos and work orders for Southern #5 at the work session.

Join us!

Ike


On Oct 10, 2019, at 3:24 PM, D. Scott Chatfield <blindog@...> wrote:

Thanks Ike!


Scott Chatfield
_._,_._,_



moderated Re: SOU/SAL joint depot at Hampton FL

Rodney Shu
 

I'll be there.   Thanks.           May wear my SAL hat 


From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io> on behalf of Marv Clemons <mclemonsjr@...>
Sent: Sunday, October 6, 2019 2:31 PM
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] SOU/SAL joint depot at Hampton FL
 
Rodney, if you're referring to Larry Goolby's presentation on Seaboard passenger service on the Birmingham District, that's coming up next Saturday, October 12th at 2PM at Leeds Depot. 

Hope to see you there and any other closeted SAL railfans in the Southern fraternity who would like to attend.

Marv

moderated Re: SOU/SAL joint depot at Hampton FL

Marv Clemons
 

Rodney, if you're referring to Larry Goolby's presentation on Seaboard passenger service on the Birmingham District, that's coming up next Saturday, October 12th at 2PM at Leeds Depot. 

Hope to see you there and any other closeted SAL railfans in the Southern fraternity who would like to attend.

Marv

moderated Re: SOU/SAL joint depot at Hampton FL

Rodney Shu
 

When is your Leads Depot presentation?




From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io> on behalf of Marv Clemons <mclemonsjr@...>
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2019 4:44 PM
To: rgraham2@... <rgraham2@...>; main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] SOU/SAL joint depot at Hampton FL
 

Thank you, Bob.  I was just hoping!

 

From: rgraham2@... [mailto:rgraham2@...]
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2019 4:35 PM
To: 'main@SouthernRailway.groups.io'; 'mclemonsjr@...'
Subject: RE: [SouthernRailway] SOU/SAL joint depot at Hampton FL

 

Don't think so, Marvin. It appears to be the restored Hampton SC H&B RR depot in Hampton.

 

Bob Graham

-----------------------------------------

From: "Marv Clemons"
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io
Cc:
Sent: Monday September 30 2019 5:20:05PM
Subject: [SouthernRailway] SOU/SAL joint depot at Hampton FL

Can anyone confirm whether this is the SOU/SAL depot at Hampton, Florida?

Thanks,
Marv Clemons




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moderated Plant Sys Pres to Sam Spencer, CC to Henry Walters re Jesup cutoff Feb 22, 1901

George Eichelberger
 

The Southern Railway Presidents' files in the SRHA archive date to before the Southern was organized, the early years of railroading in the Southeast are well documented

The attached letter to Samuel Spencer is a response to a letter from thr Southern asking if the cutoff between Jesup and Folkston, GA will be in service for the 1902 Florida travel season. At the time the letter was written, the ACL did not control the Plant System and as it considered both the ACL and Southern as "friendly" connections for passenger and freight traffic into Florida.

Previously, when the expanding SAL acquired the FC&P, relations between the Seaboard and the Southern became very much "un-friendly" as the SAL was nor interested in "short hauling" Florida traffic that had been interchanged between the Southern and FC&P. After the Coast Line acquired the Plant System, the Southern and ACL developed a working relationship that included traffic rights on the ACL from Hardeeville, SC to Jacksonville, Fla that lasted until the SCL merger. (As the ACL was not interested in short hauling either, until the SCL merger, the Southern and ACL only interchanged traffic at Tifton, GA, never Jacksonville.)

(Henry Flagler was concerned that FEC traffic bridged to the Southern by the Plant System and FC&P would be stopped. Once the traffic rights were established, the Southern and FEC had a direct interchange in Jacksonville the FEC considered critical for fruit and vegtable traffic from Florida to the midwest. Sam Spencer had agreed to "let the Plant System be the Plant System" (to pre-use an argument from the Conrail era) and not attempt to take over the Plant System as long as it was friendly to both the ACL and Southern. Both Flagler and Spencer were "blindsided" when Plant's widow sold the property to the Coast Line. A letter from Flagler in the SRHA archives asks Spencer if he was secretly negotiating with Plant's widow before the ACL deal was announced.

Southern being supported by J.P. Morgan probably convinced the Coast Line that a good relationship with the SR was in its best interest. That relationship also let them "gang up" on the Seaboard as unnecessary.

Ike

moderated Re: SOU/SAL joint depot at Hampton FL

George Eichelberger
 

Marv:

Welcome to SRHA!

Now that you are “official”, we need to get you to the archives to look through the Birmingham material. With multiple roads interchanging passengers and freight traffic, Birmingham has as many bi-lateral contracts as any other SR city. For example, “In the Junctions and Streets of Birmingham” could look at the contracts and maps describing how the Frisco, L&N, BS, SAL and ACL were interconnected and look to see what trackage exists today. The details of the Southern and CofG trackage, and trackage swaps, both used to get into Terminal Station are interesting by themselves.

I am told quite a few of the structures still stand at Findley Yard. We have several files and drawings on that facility along with the construction of the new yard at Irondale. Grist for more Birmingham articles….

Ike

PS The 2020 SRHA convention will be in Richmond. There is quite a bit of Richmond related material in the archives. We should put a Richmond article together for TIES in advance of the meet.


On Oct 1, 2019, at 9:45 AM, Marv Clemons <mclemonsjr@...> wrote:

Congratulations, Ike, you've embarrassed me into subscribing to TIES!  My check for SRHA membership will be coming forthwith.

I have some artwork and perhaps a few photos of the "Sunbeam" I'd be happy to share for your forthcoming article.  I'll get back to you shortly.

Best regards,
Marv

moderated Re: SOU/SAL joint depot at Hampton FL

Marv Clemons
 

Congratulations, Ike, you've embarrassed me into subscribing to TIES!  My check for SRHA membership will be coming forthwith.

I have some artwork and perhaps a few photos of the "Sunbeam" I'd be happy to share for your forthcoming article.  I'll get back to you shortly.

Best regards,
Marv

moderated Discontinuance of Southern Trains 11 & 12 Columbia - Charleston in 1950

Cohen Bob
 

Ike:

A fascinating group of documents. I, too, have researched a lot about trains 11 and 12, but from the Washington Division, and from what I have read, things never quite got as testy in Virginia as they did in Charleston. Richmond always seemed to be more amenable or at least more civil and matter-of-factly I think.

Thanks for sharing and finding these magnificent documents .................... and of so many others which you just don't have the time to share with us.

Such small snippets enable all of us to look thru this small window of railroad politics and life.

Bob Cohen

moderated Re: SOU/SAL joint depot at Hampton FL

George Eichelberger
 

We ran an article on Hampton, Fla in the last issue of TIES. In addition to Seaboard and Southern drawings of the interlocking plant and contracts between the two railroads controlling how the depot and interlocking was operated, there were several photos included. Here is a print from the Ben Roberts collection in the SRHA archives of the depot in April, 1958. (Copies of TIES are available from the GRAB at www.srha.net.)

Today, with the GS&F line to Palatka gone there is virtually no trace of the interlocking plant or the structures visible today.

The article mentioned Hampton was where the “Florida Sunbeam” from Atlanta and points in the Midwest changed from GS&F to SAL trackage to get to Tampa and St. Pete. An article on the Sunbeam will appear in TIES shortly. Photos of the seasonal train are rather rare. If anyone has any they could let us use in the article, that would be great. (An article on Palatka is also in the works.)

Ike



On Sep 30, 2019, at 5:44 PM, Marv Clemons <mclemonsjr@...> wrote:

Thank you, Bob.  I was just hoping!
 
From: rgraham2@... [mailto:rgraham2@...] 
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2019 4:35 PM
To: 'main@SouthernRailway.groups.io'; 'mclemonsjr@...'
Subject: RE: [SouthernRailway] SOU/SAL joint depot at Hampton FL
 
Don't think so, Marvin. It appears to be the restored Hampton SC H&B RR depot in Hampton.

 

Bob Graham

-----------------------------------------

From: "Marv Clemons" 
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io
Cc: 
Sent: Monday September 30 2019 5:20:05PM
Subject: [SouthernRailway] SOU/SAL joint depot at Hampton FL

Can anyone confirm whether this is the SOU/SAL depot at Hampton, Florida?

Thanks,
Marv Clemons 




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moderated Re: SOU/SAL joint depot at Hampton FL

Marv Clemons
 

Thank you, Bob.  I was just hoping!

 

From: rgraham2@... [mailto:rgraham2@...]
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2019 4:35 PM
To: 'main@SouthernRailway.groups.io'; 'mclemonsjr@...'
Subject: RE: [SouthernRailway] SOU/SAL joint depot at Hampton FL

 

Don't think so, Marvin. It appears to be the restored Hampton SC H&B RR depot in Hampton.

 

Bob Graham

-----------------------------------------

From: "Marv Clemons"
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io
Cc:
Sent: Monday September 30 2019 5:20:05PM
Subject: [SouthernRailway] SOU/SAL joint depot at Hampton FL

Can anyone confirm whether this is the SOU/SAL depot at Hampton, Florida?

Thanks,
Marv Clemons




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moderated Re: SOU/SAL joint depot at Hampton FL

Robert Graham
 

Don't think so, Marvin. It appears to be the restored Hampton SC H&B RR depot in Hampton.


Bob Graham

-----------------------------------------

From: "Marv Clemons"
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io
Cc:
Sent: Monday September 30 2019 5:20:05PM
Subject: [SouthernRailway] SOU/SAL joint depot at Hampton FL

Can anyone confirm whether this is the SOU/SAL depot at Hampton, Florida?

Thanks,
Marv Clemons

moderated Re: SOU/SAL joint depot at Hampton FL

Roy McLain
 

That looks like the Hampton and Branchville RR facility in Hampton, SC.
Roy McLain

moderated SOU/SAL joint depot at Hampton FL

Marv Clemons
 

Can anyone confirm whether this is the SOU/SAL depot at Hampton, Florida?

Thanks,
Marv Clemons

moderated 10-6 "River" Sleepers Assignment Question

Steve Sejda
 

Hi all,

I thoroughly enjoyed the Enoree River topic posted a few weeks ago as much info about the 10-6 sleepers was provided. I am interested in the 1952-era consist info regarding the River sleepers that serviced Greenville (TR 29, Peach Queen), Winston-Salem (TR 39) & Raleigh (TR 39). These sleepers appeared in PRR TR 151 east of Washington DC but their consist book does not list car assignment names. 

Thanks in advance for any car assignment info you may be able to provide.

Steve Sejda
Monroeville, NJ