Date   
moderated Mail on passenger trains....

George Eichelberger
 

The Southern Railway Presidents' files in the SRHA archives include many pieces of correspondence, PUC filings, responses and ICC Dockets on discontinuing passenger trains

While everyone is probably familiar, to some degree, about why passenger trains were cut off due to lack of passengers, revenues and expenses, the SRHA Presidents' files discuss three other topics that had large roles in the process. The impact on US Mail and Railway Express services on the trains or routes being dropped and how contracts and revenues from those services affected train-off data and arguments are heavily documented.

Although each case was somewhat different a recurring theme was that the Southern wanted OUT of the passenger business (particularly under DW Brosnan's administration but continued under Graham Claytor) but wanted to maintain mail and express revenues. One concept was to combine REA shipments with the railroad's "package" (LCL) services in local freight trains. (A TIES article on Southern's package services is being prepared, anyone with information on the subject is invited to help.)

That idea fell apart with the demise of the Railway Express Agency and the loss of LCL business. (REA is also well documented in the archives, mostly at the overall business level rather than detailed operations.) Southern's alternative, to operate trucks parallel to passenger train routes could generate more paper than killing passenger services because trucking companies saw that as "the camel's nose in the tent" insofar as railroads getting into the trucking business. The Post Office would agree to operate “Star” routes and REA would attempt to schedule truck routes along the same route. (An example of correspondence about mail on SR passenger trains is attached.)

US Mail coming off passenger trains may have had a larger role in the development "Piggy-Back" (PB) and containerized services than we realize. Moving mail out of labor intensive RPO and storage mail cars and into containers (sometimes on the same passenger trains) is discussed in several train off files. Once the concept of moving mail in containers took hold, the focus changed to improving how the containers were moved, including the idea of solid PB trains and interchange between railroads to better meet PO demands. Mail via PB became a strategy for the Southern to use to eliminate passenger routes and quickly became a prime concept in the development of piggy back services.
 
All of these topics are well represented in the archives files and could become important TIES (or commercial magazine) articles. The February archives work session will be Friday and Sat the 14th and 15. If anyone is interested in researching passenger train-offs, REA, RPO and mail services or piggyback services on the Southern, join us at the archives!
 
Ike
 
PS Weather permitting, we can visit newly arrived NS business car No 8 at East Chattanooga, probably on Saturday.

moderated Re: Poplar series sleepers

Robert Hanson
 

Good point, Bill.

The SAL Pullmans of the period were two-tone gray.

Bob Hanson


-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Schafer <bill4501@...>
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Sent: Wed, Jan 29, 2020 3:41 pm
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Poplar series sleepers

Pullman green, maybe, but two-tone gray more likely. Most pictures I have seen of pool cars on SOU in the 1950s are gray.

On Jan 28, 2020, at 4:08 PM, Robert Hanson via Groups.Io <RHanson669@...> wrote:

Not necessarily.

The Pullman Company's Descriptive List of Cars for March of 1961 shows 28 of these cars in Pullman ownership and in the Pullman pool.

Also, any cars that are not needed can be released to the Pullman pool and used on any road as the need arises.

Case in point - the sleeper on the last westbound run of a Pullman car on the Georgia Railroad in 1964 was Bailey's Beach, a New Haven sleeper that had been released by the NH for service in the Pullman pool.

If I had to bet, I'd wager that the Poplar series cars on 33 and 34 were as likely to be painted Pullman green as any other color - maybe more likely.

My two cents' worth.

Bob Hanson
Loganville, GA

-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Burns via Groups.Io <randmburns@...>
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Sent: Tue, Jan 28, 2020 3:04 pm
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Poplar series sleepers

Many thanks for the help. So it’s probably safe to say that the Poplar series cars running
on the Piedmont Limited were in the Pensy Tuscan red scheme, right?
Mike
 
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
 
From: Aidrian Bridgeman-Sutton
Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2020 12:11 PM
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Poplar series sleepers
 
Mike 
 
No Southern owned cars in the Poplar series but PRR had these cars and leased them back to Pullman
 
Poplar Glen
Poplar Hill
Poplar Knoll
Poplar Pike
Poplar Point
Poplar View
Poplar Arbor
Poplar Country
Poplar Gorge
Poplar Isle
Poplar Range
Poplar Realm
Poplar Vale
 
Poplar Vale was wrecked in 1951, but the rest soldiered on into the early 1960s  SAL and ACL had some too, as did some roads further west, but I am inclined to think the PRR cars most likely. 
 
Aidrian
 
On Tue, Jan 28, 2020 at 3:03 PM Mike Burns via Groups.Io <randmburns=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

It looks like the Piedmont Limited carried heavyweight 6 sec. 6 dbr. sleepers in the mid to late 1950's. I believe that this floor plan was named in the Poplar series. Does anyone know the names of some of the cars or if they were painted in the Southern Railway or Pullman company scheme? Thanks, Mike Burns 
 


moderated Re: Poplar series sleepers

Bill Schafer
 

Pullman green, maybe, but two-tone gray more likely. Most pictures I have seen of pool cars on SOU in the 1950s are gray.

On Jan 28, 2020, at 4:08 PM, Robert Hanson via Groups.Io <RHanson669@...> wrote:

Not necessarily.

The Pullman Company's Descriptive List of Cars for March of 1961 shows 28 of these cars in Pullman ownership and in the Pullman pool.

Also, any cars that are not needed can be released to the Pullman pool and used on any road as the need arises.

Case in point - the sleeper on the last westbound run of a Pullman car on the Georgia Railroad in 1964 was Bailey's Beach, a New Haven sleeper that had been released by the NH for service in the Pullman pool.

If I had to bet, I'd wager that the Poplar series cars on 33 and 34 were as likely to be painted Pullman green as any other color - maybe more likely.

My two cents' worth.

Bob Hanson
Loganville, GA

-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Burns via Groups.Io <randmburns@...>
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Sent: Tue, Jan 28, 2020 3:04 pm
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Poplar series sleepers

Many thanks for the help. So it’s probably safe to say that the Poplar series cars running
on the Piedmont Limited were in the Pensy Tuscan red scheme, right?
Mike
 
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
 
From: Aidrian Bridgeman-Sutton
Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2020 12:11 PM
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Poplar series sleepers
 
Mike 
 
No Southern owned cars in the Poplar series but PRR had these cars and leased them back to Pullman
 
Poplar Glen
Poplar Hill
Poplar Knoll
Poplar Pike
Poplar Point
Poplar View
Poplar Arbor
Poplar Country
Poplar Gorge
Poplar Isle
Poplar Range
Poplar Realm
Poplar Vale
 
Poplar Vale was wrecked in 1951, but the rest soldiered on into the early 1960s  SAL and ACL had some too, as did some roads further west, but I am inclined to think the PRR cars most likely. 
 
Aidrian
 
On Tue, Jan 28, 2020 at 3:03 PM Mike Burns via Groups.Io <randmburns=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

It looks like the Piedmont Limited carried heavyweight 6 sec. 6 dbr. sleepers in the mid to late 1950's. I believe that this floor plan was named in the Poplar series. Does anyone know the names of some of the cars or if they were painted in the Southern Railway or Pullman company scheme? Thanks, Mike Burns 
 


moderated Re: Poplar series sleepers

Bill Schafer
 

To help you narrow down exactly when the 6 sec-6 DBR cars operated on 33-34, this is what the passenger timetables indicate:

Feb. 15, 1953 timetable
South - car SR12
North - car L42
New York-New Orleans
10 sec-DR-2 Cpt car

May 17 1953 timetable (the next one issued)
Same car numbers
New York-New Orleans
6 sec-6 DBR car

Nov 20 1955 timetable
South - car SR11
North - car L42
New York-New Orleans
6 sec-6 DBR car

Aug 10 1958
Same car numbers
New York-New Orleans
6 sec-6 DBR car
Last timetable to show 6-6 sleeper

Nov 10 1958
Same car numbers
10 roomette-6 DBR car
New York-New Orleans
First timetable to show lightweight car with these car numbers

SOU also operated a 6-6 briefly on the Ponce de Leon between Cincinnati and Atlanta in 1960-61. See p. 8, 2015-3 TIES Magazine, which features Southern’s 8 section-5 double bedroom cars but also mentions the operation of 6-6s on the Ponce. This issue of TIES traces the 8-5s throughout SOU’s operation of them - where they operated, what trains they operated on, pictures of them in service, etc. As Fenton mentioned, SOU owned no 6-6s, but probably depended on Pullman pool cars. PRR cars would be a likely guess, but other eastern railroads that leased 6-6s to Pullman were NYC, SAL, and ACL. 

I didn’t check all the timetables, but the July 1955 timetable lists 6-6s only on the Piedmont Limited. Since SOU didn’t own any, their appearance on SOU trains was rather rare.

—Bill


On Jan 28, 2020, at 3:04 PM, Mike Burns via Groups.Io <randmburns@...> wrote:

Many thanks for the help. So it’s probably safe to say that the Poplar series cars running
on the Piedmont Limited were in the Pensy Tuscan red scheme, right?
Mike
 
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
 
From: Aidrian Bridgeman-Sutton
Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2020 12:11 PM
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Poplar series sleepers
 
Mike 
 
No Southern owned cars in the Poplar series but PRR had these cars and leased them back to Pullman
 
Poplar Glen
Poplar Hill
Poplar Knoll
Poplar Pike
Poplar Point
Poplar View
Poplar Arbor
Poplar Country
Poplar Gorge
Poplar Isle
Poplar Range
Poplar Realm
Poplar Vale
 
Poplar Vale was wrecked in 1951, but the rest soldiered on into the early 1960s  SAL and ACL had some too, as did some roads further west, but I am inclined to think the PRR cars most likely. 
 
Aidrian
 
On Tue, Jan 28, 2020 at 3:03 PM Mike Burns via Groups.Io <randmburns=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

It looks like the Piedmont Limited carried heavyweight 6 sec. 6 dbr. sleepers in the mid to late 1950's. I believe that this floor plan was named in the Poplar series. Does anyone know the names of some of the cars or if they were painted in the Southern Railway or Pullman company scheme? Thanks, Mike Burns 

 
<F4006B0E061D4A42B22F3C1C097C9206.png>

moderated Re: Poplar series sleepers

Mike Burns
 

Aidrian,
Thank you very much for taking time to provide
me with this helpful information. I am working on
an HO scale Piedmont consist which will include
a Poplar series car. With this info, my project should
be pretty close to prototype.
Mike


In a message dated 1/29/2020 10:08:24 AM Central Standard Time, abridgemansutton@... writes:

Sorry I spoke too soon - the h/w cars are also covered online   - see http://collections.carli.illinois.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/nby_pullman/id/3072/rec/51

Aidrian

On Wed, Jan 29, 2020 at 8:49 AM Aidrian Bridgeman-Sutton via Groups.Io <abridgemansutton=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
Tom Madden's excel (and excellent) data base at pullmanproject.com gives the paint diagram numbers and paint dates for all these cars - all seem to be in some form of PRR paint to some version of MDD4973  "Painting, striping and lettering for conventional and streamlined conventional cars assigned to the PRR"  This drawing had a few versions for which I don't have any references,- in all cases the base colour would be Tuscan Red, but you would need to find a copy the drawings to see the details. 

Many of these are held in the Newberry library  At the moment only the drawing for lightweight cars in online, but you should be able to order a copy for the heavyweight cars


Aidrian

 


moderated Re: Poplar series sleepers

Aidrian Bridgeman-Sutton
 

Sorry I spoke too soon - the h/w cars are also covered online   - see http://collections.carli.illinois.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/nby_pullman/id/3072/rec/51

Aidrian

On Wed, Jan 29, 2020 at 8:49 AM Aidrian Bridgeman-Sutton via Groups.Io <abridgemansutton=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
Tom Madden's excel (and excellent) data base at pullmanproject.com gives the paint diagram numbers and paint dates for all these cars - all seem to be in some form of PRR paint to some version of MDD4973  "Painting, striping and lettering for conventional and streamlined conventional cars assigned to the PRR"  This drawing had a few versions for which I don't have any references,- in all cases the base colour would be Tuscan Red, but you would need to find a copy the drawings to see the details. 

Many of these are held in the Newberry library  At the moment only the drawing for lightweight cars in online, but you should be able to order a copy for the heavyweight cars 


Aidrian

moderated Re: Poplar series sleepers

Aidrian Bridgeman-Sutton
 

Tom Madden's excel (and excellent) data base at pullmanproject.com gives the paint diagram numbers and paint dates for all these cars - all seem to be in some form of PRR paint to some version of MDD4973  "Painting, striping and lettering for conventional and streamlined conventional cars assigned to the PRR"  This drawing had a few versions for which I don't have any references,- in all cases the base colour would be Tuscan Red, but you would need to find a copy the drawings to see the details. 

Many of these are held in the Newberry library  At the moment only the drawing for lightweight cars in online, but you should be able to order a copy for the heavyweight cars 


Aidrian

moderated Re: Poplar series sleepers

Robert Hanson
 

Not necessarily.

The Pullman Company's Descriptive List of Cars for March of 1961 shows 28 of these cars in Pullman ownership and in the Pullman pool.

Also, any cars that are not needed can be released to the Pullman pool and used on any road as the need arises.

Case in point - the sleeper on the last westbound run of a Pullman car on the Georgia Railroad in 1964 was Bailey's Beach, a New Haven sleeper that had been released by the NH for service in the Pullman pool.

If I had to bet, I'd wager that the Poplar series cars on 33 and 34 were as likely to be painted Pullman green as any other color - maybe more likely.

My two cents' worth.

Bob Hanson
Loganville, GA

-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Burns via Groups.Io <randmburns@...>
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Sent: Tue, Jan 28, 2020 3:04 pm
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Poplar series sleepers

Many thanks for the help. So it’s probably safe to say that the Poplar series cars running
on the Piedmont Limited were in the Pensy Tuscan red scheme, right?
Mike
 
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
 
From: Aidrian Bridgeman-Sutton
Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2020 12:11 PM
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Poplar series sleepers
 
Mike 
 
No Southern owned cars in the Poplar series but PRR had these cars and leased them back to Pullman
 
Poplar Glen
Poplar Hill
Poplar Knoll
Poplar Pike
Poplar Point
Poplar View
Poplar Arbor
Poplar Country
Poplar Gorge
Poplar Isle
Poplar Range
Poplar Realm
Poplar Vale
 
Poplar Vale was wrecked in 1951, but the rest soldiered on into the early 1960s  SAL and ACL had some too, as did some roads further west, but I am inclined to think the PRR cars most likely. 
 
Aidrian
 
On Tue, Jan 28, 2020 at 3:03 PM Mike Burns via Groups.Io <randmburns=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

It looks like the Piedmont Limited carried heavyweight 6 sec. 6 dbr. sleepers in the mid to late 1950's. I believe that this floor plan was named in the Poplar series. Does anyone know the names of some of the cars or if they were painted in the Southern Railway or Pullman company scheme? Thanks, Mike Burns
 

moderated Re: Poplar series sleepers

Mike Burns
 

Many thanks for the help. So it’s probably safe to say that the Poplar series cars running

on the Piedmont Limited were in the Pensy Tuscan red scheme, right?

Mike

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Aidrian Bridgeman-Sutton
Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2020 12:11 PM
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Poplar series sleepers

 

Mike 

 

No Southern owned cars in the Poplar series but PRR had these cars and leased them back to Pullman

 

Poplar Glen
Poplar Hill
Poplar Knoll
Poplar Pike
Poplar Point
Poplar View
Poplar Arbor
Poplar Country
Poplar Gorge
Poplar Isle
Poplar Range
Poplar Realm
Poplar Vale

 

Poplar Vale was wrecked in 1951, but the rest soldiered on into the early 1960s  SAL and ACL had some too, as did some roads further west, but I am inclined to think the PRR cars most likely. 

 

Aidrian

 

On Tue, Jan 28, 2020 at 3:03 PM Mike Burns via Groups.Io <randmburns=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:


It looks like the Piedmont Limited carried heavyweight 6 sec. 6 dbr. sleepers in the mid to late 1950's. I believe that this floor plan was named in the Poplar series. Does anyone know the names of some of the cars or if they were painted in the Southern Railway or Pullman company scheme? Thanks, Mike Burns

 

moderated Re: Poplar series sleepers

Aidrian Bridgeman-Sutton
 

Mike 

No Southern owned cars in the Poplar series but PRR had these cars and leased them back to Pullman

Poplar Glen
Poplar Hill
Poplar Knoll
Poplar Pike
Poplar Point
Poplar View
Poplar Arbor
Poplar Country
Poplar Gorge
Poplar Isle
Poplar Range
Poplar Realm
Poplar Vale

Poplar Vale was wrecked in 1951, but the rest soldiered on into the early 1960s  SAL and ACL had some too, as did some roads further west, but I am inclined to think the PRR cars most likely. 

Aidrian

On Tue, Jan 28, 2020 at 3:03 PM Mike Burns via Groups.Io <randmburns=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

It looks like the Piedmont Limited carried heavyweight 6 sec. 6 dbr. sleepers in the mid to late 1950's. I believe that this floor plan was named in the Poplar series. Does anyone know the names of some of the cars or if they were painted in the Southern Railway or Pullman company scheme? Thanks, Mike Burns

moderated Re: Poplar series sleepers

O Fenton Wells
 

Oops, make that the Nov 1951 ORER


On Tue, Jan 28, 2020 at 10:18 AM O Fenton Wells <srrfan1401@...> wrote:
These were probably Pullman pool cars or cars from connecting railroads as SR had no "Poplar" series cars, at least in the 1953 ORER.
fenton

On Tue, Jan 28, 2020 at 10:03 AM Mike Burns via Groups.Io <randmburns=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

It looks like the Piedmont Limited carried heavyweight 6 sec. 6 dbr. sleepers in the mid to late 1950's. I believe that this floor plan was named in the Poplar series. Does anyone know the names of some of the cars or if they were painted in the Southern Railway or Pullman company scheme? Thanks, Mike Burns



--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...

moderated Re: Poplar series sleepers

O Fenton Wells
 

These were probably Pullman pool cars or cars from connecting railroads as SR had no "Poplar" series cars, at least in the 1953 ORER.
fenton

On Tue, Jan 28, 2020 at 10:03 AM Mike Burns via Groups.Io <randmburns=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

It looks like the Piedmont Limited carried heavyweight 6 sec. 6 dbr. sleepers in the mid to late 1950's. I believe that this floor plan was named in the Poplar series. Does anyone know the names of some of the cars or if they were painted in the Southern Railway or Pullman company scheme? Thanks, Mike Burns



--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...

moderated Poplar series sleepers

Mike Burns
 


It looks like the Piedmont Limited carried heavyweight 6 sec. 6 dbr. sleepers in the mid to late 1950's. I believe that this floor plan was named in the Poplar series. Does anyone know the names of some of the cars or if they were painted in the Southern Railway or Pullman company scheme? Thanks, Mike Burns

moderated Re: Mike Roderick please contact me

Michael Roderick
 

George:

I did once I realized it.

Mike


From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io> on behalf of George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...>
Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2020 09:20
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Mike Roderick please contact me
 
Rather than post these messages to the group, please use person to person emails.

Ike

On Jan 28, 2020, at 9:18 AM, Michael Roderick <mdrghost@...> wrote:

Jim:

I am sorry I have not been able to reply until today I was in the hospital till last night. That means I have to have to cancel my order of hopper also due funds not being available now.

Mike


From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io> on behalf of Jim King <jimking3@...>
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2020 19:33
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Subject: [SouthernRailway] Mike Roderick please contact me
 
Mike … pls call me at 828-777-5619 re: chip hopper kits.  Your Hotmail email doesn’t seem to be working after multiple attempts.

 

Jim King

 


-- 
Jim King
http://smokymountainmodelworks.com

moderated Re: Mike Roderick please contact me

George Eichelberger
 

Rather than post these messages to the group, please use person to person emails.

Ike

On Jan 28, 2020, at 9:18 AM, Michael Roderick <mdrghost@...> wrote:

Jim:

I am sorry I have not been able to reply until today I was in the hospital till last night. That means I have to have to cancel my order of hopper also due funds not being available now.

Mike


From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io> on behalf of Jim King <jimking3@...>
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2020 19:33
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Subject: [SouthernRailway] Mike Roderick please contact me
 
Mike … pls call me at 828-777-5619 re: chip hopper kits.  Your Hotmail email doesn’t seem to be working after multiple attempts.

 

Jim King

 


-- 
Jim King
http://smokymountainmodelworks.com

moderated Re: Mike Roderick please contact me

Michael Roderick
 

Jim:

I am sorry I have not been able to reply until today I was in the hospital till last night. That means I have to have to cancel my order of hopper also due funds not being available now.

Mike


From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io> on behalf of Jim King <jimking3@...>
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2020 19:33
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Subject: [SouthernRailway] Mike Roderick please contact me
 

Mike … pls call me at 828-777-5619 re: chip hopper kits.  Your Hotmail email doesn’t seem to be working after multiple attempts.

 

Jim King

http://smokymountainmodelworks.com/

 


--
Jim King
http://smokymountainmodelworks.com

moderated Re: Mike Roderick please contact me

Mike Burns
 

Hi Jim,

You must have the wrong guy. I am a member of the Southern  Railway groups.io

but haven’t submitted anything about SR chip hoppers.

Mike Burns

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Jim King
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2020 6:33 PM
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io
Subject: [SouthernRailway] Mike Roderick please contact me

 

Mike … pls call me at 828-777-5619 re: chip hopper kits.  Your Hotmail email doesn’t seem to be working after multiple attempts.

 

Jim King

http://smokymountainmodelworks.com/

 


--
Jim King
http://smokymountainmodelworks.com

 

moderated Mike Roderick please contact me

Jim King
 

Mike … pls call me at 828-777-5619 re: chip hopper kits.  Your Hotmail email doesn’t seem to be working after multiple attempts.

 

Jim King

http://smokymountainmodelworks.com/

 


--
Jim King
http://smokymountainmodelworks.com

moderated Re: Clay hoppers and the "cousin" Chip hop

Felix Freeman
 

I worked in the Mechanical Department and was at Greensboro from the late 1970's to 1995.  We had a collection of clay hoppers in service on the A&Y.  This is the line from Greensboro to Sanford.  Clay was loaded at the Gulf clay pits and moved to Boren Brick in Pleasant Garden.  For the most part the cars were in captive service between those two points.  I was told by the Sales Department that revenue was very good for this short haul.  For the most part the cars never came to the yard at Pomona (Greensboro).  There was a problem handling these cars in the yard.  When they were switched and handled, clay would be knocked loose and fall to the ground.  When this clay became wet it would be slippery and cause poor footing.  Reworking yard tracks and keeping these cars out of the yard took care of that problem.  As these cars were not inspected by the Mechanical Department on a daily basis we made it a point to regularly run the Road Truck down the branch to inspect them, do light repairs and oil the friction bearings.  Cut levers, grab irons, sill steps, car bodies and angle cocks all took a beating in this service.  The agents at Liberty and the train crew did an outstanding job in looking out for problems and would route cars in need of repair to Pomona or let us know to do road repairs.  Workers at the clay pit and people at Boren did a good job in their handling.  These cars were in this service when I came to Greensboro and were still in service when I left.  There was a spur track off of the south end of our RIP track on which we kept two of these cars for door repairs.  We also would redo the stenciling and car numbers and spray paint the worst areas..  A complete paint job was out of the question. It was not well known by a lot of people on the railroad that these cars even existed.  On occasions when we would have visitors from our department (and others) and when these people saw the clay hoppers the first words out of their mouths would be "scrap it".  I had to do a lot of quick talking to explain that there was a need for these cars.  Sales Department people at Greensboro took a dim view toward anyone who wanted to do away with them.  There was a sales lady who would fight anyone who dared to scrap one.   At one time we did get some relief.  One of our visitors who had the authority arranged to have a few cars rotated to Coster Shop for program work.  I was reluctant to ask to get authority to send them to a big shop for heavy repair.  I was worried that if I sent one away someone might want to scrap it instead of fixing it.    This included body and door work, a paint.job and conversion to roller bearings.  This did not last long and we were soon back to where we started.  Coster did began to send us material to rework the doors.  The problem was that no two doors were alike and each had to be fabricated.  I kept a file in my office on these cars.  I had a list of all of the cars that I knew of that were on the branch and would record when they were serviced.  We would add to the list as we encountered them on our road trips.   At times cars would get out of their regular cycle.  There was a brick plant at Roseboro, NC on CSX where they went.  I think that it was a Boren operation.  At times we would see where Hamlet did repacks and air work. Roseboro is on the former ACL portion of the A&Y and is just east of Fayetteville.  There was another brick plant at or near Blacksburg, SC to where they would venture.  It too was a Boren operation.  The cars did well on the low speed Sanford Local. However it would give me restless moments to think of them on the main line.  I don't remember of any hot boxes that we had.  We did have door chains to break but never lost any loads or be derailed.  It is interesting to note that there was one of these cars that was stenciled "When empty return to FEC for sugar cane loading".  Boren employees were very satisfied with the cars.  Sales people at Greensboro were happy with the business that they provided.  We in the Mechanical Department were glad that they provided work for us.  It was good local business that contributed to paying our way.  I am not  sure how long they lasted after I left Greensboro.  I did have a few conversations with the sales people after I left.  Years later and after I had retired was when I had my first encounter with the the one that is at Spencer.  I had no idea that it was there and had been preserved.  It was like running into an old friend.                     


On Tue, Jan 14, 2020 at 3:55 PM D. Scott Chatfield <blindog@...> wrote:
Thanks guys for the answers and pics.  Some serious weathering projects there!

I assume the reason for the "clamshell" doors is regular coal car doors wouldn't be tight enough to keep wet clay from leaking out.


Scott Chatfield

moderated James Carryl, Freddie Godwin contact me off list pls

Jim King
 

Please contact me off-list re: the SOU/NS wood chip hopper kits project.  Your email addresses don’t seem to be working.

 

Jim King

http://smokymountainmodelworks.com/

 


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Jim King
http://smokymountainmodelworks.com