Date   
moderated Re: [ModelingTheSouthern] moloco Southern FGE = "The Beer Car"

D. Scott Chatfield
 

James,

How did you build the 529983?


Scott Chatfield

moderated Re: [ModelingTheSouthern] moloco Southern FGE = "The Beer Car"

James
 

Scott,

The 529983 was started from an Accurail  5600 series exterior post car.  I kept the sides and under frame.  The ends are cast resin modifiedfrtm a 5277 end to the smaller size for 529983’s 5029CF size.  The roof is an Athearn Genesis PS bowtie roof available from Cannon & Co.

I picked 529983 because it is the only Southern car I have seen with the Evans AirPak logo. There were 25 or so cars from I think the 33000 series sent to Evans to have the AirPak dividers added and the cars upgraded to 100 ton with a truck change as well.

Wherever I found the pic of 529983 I do not remember, might be George Elwood’s site.
The clinic also included the CofG 3500 series boxcars.

All three cars will be finished on my group page:

James Wall
Rural Hall, NC



moderated Southern Railway Freight Car Specifications to Drawing (Card List) (Working Copy 11-10-2018

George Eichelberger
 

Next Friday and Saturday is the November work session at the SRHA archives. Most of our shelving is up and we plan to empty as many packing boxes as possible. One project (of many) is to organize our freight and passenger car specifications, drawing indexes and correspondence files in F (Specification), NCP (New Car Program, ACP (Automobile Car Program, NEP (New Equipment Program) and SCP (Special Car program) order. That task, along with several others I'll describe later this weekend, will make it much easier to locate material and edit the indexes and lists we have.

Anyone that can attend and help will have the opportunity to understand what the different parts of the SRHA collections are and how they relate to each other.

We will begin around 10:00 Friday morning at the archives on Turntable road (just south of the entrance to TVRM off Cromwell Road in Chattanooga), go as late as anyone is interested and then begin again on Saturday morning at about 8:00 until 3:30 or so. (IF anyone wants to work on Sunday, you must let us know at archives@... and we will see if that can be arranged.) Any questions, send us an email as soon as possible.

The attached PDF document is the working copy of the Southern freight car to Card List index we will be using.

Ike

moderated Southern Railway Passenger Spec-Card List-Drawing Index

George Eichelberger
 

All:

Here is the working copy of the Southern Railway passenger car Specification/P-Card Index.

We'll be organizing the passenger car Specs, Card Lists and drawing at next weekend's archives work session.

Ike

moderated Southern Railway Rolling Stock Contracts

George Eichelberger
 

In addition to the Specs and drawing lists for different orders of freight and passenger cars and locos the SRHA archives include quite few rolling stock purchase contracts . The contracts are not good sources of "nuts and bolts" information but road numbers, built and delivery dates are usually included.

As with the other indexes and lists posted today, this is a working copy. Now that we are able to access and organize all of our archives materials, we can complete or verify all of the data they contain and make use of all of them to locate material in the archives.

Ike

moderated Re: Southern Railway Freight Car Specifications to Drawing (Card List) (Working Copy 11-10-2018

Dave Queener
 

Ike,

Thank you very much for sending out the F card and P card lists--very helpful stuff.

Warmly,

Dave Q


On 11/10/2018 9:21 AM, George Eichelberger wrote:
Next Friday and Saturday is the November work session at the SRHA archives. Most of our shelving is up and we plan to empty as many packing boxes as possible. One project (of many) is to organize our freight and passenger car specifications, drawing indexes and correspondence files in F (Specification), NCP (New Car Program, ACP (Automobile Car Program, NEP (New Equipment Program) and SCP (Special Car program) order. That task, along with several others I'll describe later this weekend, will make it much easier to locate material and edit the indexes and lists we have.

Anyone that can attend and help will have the opportunity to understand what the different parts of the SRHA collections are and how they relate to each other.

We will begin around 10:00 Friday morning at the archives on Turntable road (just south of the entrance to TVRM off Cromwell Road in Chattanooga), go as late as anyone is interested and then begin again on Saturday morning at about 8:00 until 3:30 or so. (IF anyone wants to work on Sunday, you must let us know at archives@... and we will see if that can be arranged.) Any questions, send us an email as soon as possible.

The attached PDF document is the working copy of the Southern freight car to Card List index we will be using.

Ike

-- 
Owner, Cumberland Model Engineering
(865) 333-5712  www.CumberlandModelEngineering.com

Pastor, St. Paul Presbyterian Church
(865) 209-5654  www.StPaulPres.com  

moderated SRHA

Carl Ardrey
 

Just a reminder SRHA 2019 calendars are now available with details at www.srha.net.

CEA

moderated Belated welcome message

George Eichelberger
 

First of all, to everyone that has joined the Southern Railway group.....

Hello and welcome to the new Southern Railway group sponsored by the Southern Railway Historical Association. Membership in the Association is not necessary but we do want to hear what your specific interests are. 
 
We are just now getting the SRHA archives organized after our move to the new archives building at TVRM and intend to use groups.io to try to extend access and use of the archives material beyond Chattanooga.
 
Check our www.srha.net for more information and a soon to be updated photo tour of the new facility in the archives section.
 
Ike
George Eichelberger - SRHA Archives Director
Carl Ardrey - SRHA President and the SRHA Directors and officers


And.....I received an inquiry today about who/what group is behind SouthernRailway.groups.io. It's on the home page but just in case, I'll repeat it here......

Southern Railway Historical and Modeling Information Interchange main@SouthernRailway.groups.io

Group Description

Southern Railway Historical and Modeling Information Interchange

A group to discuss, ask questions and provide historical and modeling information about the Southern Railway System its predecessors and subsidiaries. It will also be used to publish and distribute drawings, notes, photos and correspondence from users and the Southern Railway Historical Association's archives at the Tennessee Valley Railroad Museum in Chattanooga, TN.
 

moderated E6/E7/E8 Lower Headlight Angle

David Friedlander
 

Hi all,

Quick Question - I've been looking at photos, but can't tell, were the lower headlights (or were they mars lights?) on the E6, E7, and E8 units that had them, supposed to be parallel to the tracks or just slightly raised?

Thanks,
David Friedlander
NY, NY

moderated Re: E6/E7/E8 Lower Headlight Angle

George Eichelberger
 

The first Southern E-6s were described in undated  "EMC Proposition #00737", it referred to "EMC Specification #594-B". That was followed by four supplements dated October 2, November 29 and December 10, 1940 and January 10, 1941.* All of the SR passenger diesel specifications are in the SRHA archives at TVRM. Unfortunately, I'm just outside of Atlanta so I'll have to refer to the headlight description in the contemporary FT spec until I can check at the archives. (Photo attached)

EMD spec #606D (for FTs 6102-03 and B units 6154-55) describes "One headlight, EMD design, 14" diameter with multiple reflectors having seven (7) prefocused bulbs. How the "prefocused bulbs" were set above, below and to the left and right on the engine center line are not described.

The headlight changed with Supplement No.1 (May 19, 1944) to specification (FT-5400) for FTs 4103-06, 4112-17, 4303-05 and 4311-13. That describes "Each "A" unit to be equipped with a Pyle-National 250W, 32V headlight per endor's drawing #20-C-14590 MTP, EMD file reference  #H-2.61, Pyle-National part #14590-EMS, with non glare reflector, less springs, studs, nuts, and washers, as a substitute to EMD standard 7-cluster headlight."

Notice that neither description answers David's question. More research can be done on how headlights were adjusted but given the length of an E unit carbody, we can assume no setting could compensate for undulations in the track or lighting around curves, one of the the reasons for oscillating headlights.


*EMC/EMD diesel orders began with a description (specification) of their standard product. If the purchasing railroad did not want any changes or customized features, the spec, as issued, described what would be delivered. To EMC/EMDs consternation, the Southern almost never accepted EMDs spec as written. (Electro Motive was interested in selling standardized units rather than complicate their production processes.) After negotiations with the purchasing railroad, a "Specification Supplement" would be issued to describe to changes.

Ike

moderated Nice 1960s Southeastern Photo Album

David Friedlander
 

Hey All,

I saw this link from a gentleman on the SOU Modelers Facebook group, but I don't know if it had been posted here. Not sure how many members here are a member of that page, so I apologize if you've seen it already.  I hadn't seen the collection before or heard of the organization before.  They have a lot of other collections, but only some of them are available online.

It has some really nice photos of the Southern along with the old NS and some other interesting shots:
www.railphoto-art.org/collections/lamb/group-three/

I also saw some interesting 1950's CG and 1960's TC shots here:
http://www.railphoto-art.org/collections/lamb/group-five/

David Friedlander
NY, NY

moderated Re: E6/E7/E8 Lower Headlight Angle

David Friedlander
 

Ike,

Very late, but thank you for providing that photo and the information you provided.  I had no idea they put 7 bulbs into that lower headlight.  I figured it was the typical 1/2 light headlights that I'm used to seeing in photos.  That's a lot of maintain.

There are so many more important things to research, so don't waste your time on looking that up unless you are truly interested in it.  I figured it may have been previously known knowledge, since these units fall into the early diesel era that has a larger modeling following.  I think for modeling purposes, getting the headlight parallel or slightly angled up is at the "good enough" level to not stress over it.

David Friedlander
NY, NY


On Wed, Nov 21, 2018 at 1:06 PM George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:
The first Southern E-6s were described in undated  "EMC Proposition #00737", it referred to "EMC Specification #594-B". That was followed by four supplements dated October 2, November 29 and December 10, 1940 and January 10, 1941.* All of the SR passenger diesel specifications are in the SRHA archives at TVRM. Unfortunately, I'm just outside of Atlanta so I'll have to refer to the headlight description in the contemporary FT spec until I can check at the archives. (Photo attached)

EMD spec #606D (for FTs 6102-03 and B units 6154-55) describes "One headlight, EMD design, 14" diameter with multiple reflectors having seven (7) prefocused bulbs. How the "prefocused bulbs" were set above, below and to the left and right on the engine center line are not described.

The headlight changed with Supplement No.1 (May 19, 1944) to specification (FT-5400) for FTs 4103-06, 4112-17, 4303-05 and 4311-13. That describes "Each "A" unit to be equipped with a Pyle-National 250W, 32V headlight per endor's drawing #20-C-14590 MTP, EMD file reference  #H-2.61, Pyle-National part #14590-EMS, with non glare reflector, less springs, studs, nuts, and washers, as a substitute to EMD standard 7-cluster headlight."

Notice that neither description answers David's question. More research can be done on how headlights were adjusted but given the length of an E unit carbody, we can assume no setting could compensate for undulations in the track or lighting around curves, one of the the reasons for oscillating headlights.


*EMC/EMD diesel orders began with a description (specification) of their standard product. If the purchasing railroad did not want any changes or customized features, the spec, as issued, described what would be delivered. To EMC/EMDs consternation, the Southern almost never accepted EMDs spec as written. (Electro Motive was interested in selling standardized units rather than complicate their production processes.) After negotiations with the purchasing railroad, a "Specification Supplement" would be issued to describe to changes.

Ike

moderated Re: E6/E7/E8 Lower Headlight Angle

Charles Powell
 

David,
Pasted below are excerpts the current  Code of Federal Regulations (229.125) regarding locomotive headlights. While these are much later than when the E-6s were built, I suspect that in regards to the aim of the headlight, they would not be much different.  Note that it states the lights should be aimed parallel to the tracks. Also is a short excerpt from 229.133, Auxiliary lights (ditchlights) that states that a locomotive built prior to 1/1/1996 and equipped with an oscillating is exempt from the ditch lights requirements. 

In regards to the E6s I think that the "Mars" lights were actually in the top headlight housing. I know that most if not all of the E6s were built with a solid nose, the Southern units eventually received a nose door and the oscillating light mechanism would have been a major pain to mount on a hinged door. In looking at some of my Southern Railway books I saw a number of photos where the twin headlights in nose door are illuminated and it is clearly two side by side stationary lights. So I would think that if the oscillating light was in the lower position, it was moved up when the doors were installed. In regards to the E6's slanted nose, the cover glass may have been slanted in line with the nose but the lights inside would have been parallel to the track.  In looking at all of my books, in every close up photo of an E or F unit with two headlight housings, you could tell that the fixed light was in the lower position and the oscillating light was in the upper position. 

Finally I have a 1950 Locomotive Cyclopedia that has an ad for Pyle - National Gyralites. This was the type of unit that mounted externally rather than enclosed in the car body. Some roads, (NKP) for one had them mounted above the headlights on steam locomotives. These lights had a red lens if there was an emergency brake application or they could be used as a clear crossing warning light. It states that the reflector is to be positioned to project the beam on the lowest center parallel to track. 

I hope all of this helps.
Charlie

Excerpts from the current 49 CFR 229 Subpart C requirements.

§ 229.125 Headlights and auxiliary lights. (a) Each lead locomotive used in road service shall illuminate its headlight while the locomotive is in use. When illuminated, the headlight shall produce a peak intensity of at least 200,000 candela and produce at least 3,000 candela at an angle of 7.5 degrees and at least 400 candela at an angle of 20 degrees from the centerline of the locomotive when the light is aimed parallel to the tracks. If a locomotive or locomotive consist in road service is regularly required to run backward for any portion of its trip other than to pick up a detached portion of its train or to make terminal movements, it shall also have on its rear a headlight that meets the intensity requirements above. Each headlight shall be aimed to illuminate a person at least 800 feet ahead and in front of the headlight. For purposes of this section, a headlight shall be comprised of either one or two lamps.

 

§ 229.133 Interim locomotive conspicuity measures—auxiliary external lights.

(4) Oscillating light. (i) An oscillating light shall consist of: (A) One steadily burning white light producing at least 200,000 candela in a moving beam that depicts a circle or a horizontal figure ‘‘8’’ to the front, about the longitudinal centerline of the locomotive. 

 (c)(1) Any lead locomotive equipped with oscillating lights as described in paragraph (b)(2) of this section that were ordered for installation on that locomotive prior to January 1, 1996, is considered in compliance with §229.125(d)(1) through (3).

moderated Re: E6/E7/E8 Lower Headlight Angle

David Friedlander
 

Charlie,

This is very useful information to make good enough assumptions.  Red oscillating mars light up top and either a 7-beam, single-beam, or twin-beam headlight below... the lighting itself can be safely assumed to be parallel to the track.

Works for me.

David


On Sun, Dec 2, 2018 at 3:06 PM Charles Powell <charlesspowell@...> wrote:
David,
Pasted below are excerpts the current  Code of Federal Regulations (229.125) regarding locomotive headlights. While these are much later than when the E-6s were built, I suspect that in regards to the aim of the headlight, they would not be much different.  Note that it states the lights should be aimed parallel to the tracks. Also is a short excerpt from 229.133, Auxiliary lights (ditchlights) that states that a locomotive built prior to 1/1/1996 and equipped with an oscillating is exempt from the ditch lights requirements. 

In regards to the E6s I think that the "Mars" lights were actually in the top headlight housing. I know that most if not all of the E6s were built with a solid nose, the Southern units eventually received a nose door and the oscillating light mechanism would have been a major pain to mount on a hinged door. In looking at some of my Southern Railway books I saw a number of photos where the twin headlights in nose door are illuminated and it is clearly two side by side stationary lights. So I would think that if the oscillating light was in the lower position, it was moved up when the doors were installed. In regards to the E6's slanted nose, the cover glass may have been slanted in line with the nose but the lights inside would have been parallel to the track.  In looking at all of my books, in every close up photo of an E or F unit with two headlight housings, you could tell that the fixed light was in the lower position and the oscillating light was in the upper position. 

Finally I have a 1950 Locomotive Cyclopedia that has an ad for Pyle - National Gyralites. This was the type of unit that mounted externally rather than enclosed in the car body. Some roads, (NKP) for one had them mounted above the headlights on steam locomotives. These lights had a red lens if there was an emergency brake application or they could be used as a clear crossing warning light. It states that the reflector is to be positioned to project the beam on the lowest center parallel to track. 

I hope all of this helps.
Charlie

Excerpts from the current 49 CFR 229 Subpart C requirements.

§ 229.125 Headlights and auxiliary lights. (a) Each lead locomotive used in road service shall illuminate its headlight while the locomotive is in use. When illuminated, the headlight shall produce a peak intensity of at least 200,000 candela and produce at least 3,000 candela at an angle of 7.5 degrees and at least 400 candela at an angle of 20 degrees from the centerline of the locomotive when the light is aimed parallel to the tracks. If a locomotive or locomotive consist in road service is regularly required to run backward for any portion of its trip other than to pick up a detached portion of its train or to make terminal movements, it shall also have on its rear a headlight that meets the intensity requirements above. Each headlight shall be aimed to illuminate a person at least 800 feet ahead and in front of the headlight. For purposes of this section, a headlight shall be comprised of either one or two lamps.

 

§ 229.133 Interim locomotive conspicuity measures—auxiliary external lights.

(4) Oscillating light. (i) An oscillating light shall consist of: (A) One steadily burning white light producing at least 200,000 candela in a moving beam that depicts a circle or a horizontal figure ‘‘8’’ to the front, about the longitudinal centerline of the locomotive. 

 (c)(1) Any lead locomotive equipped with oscillating lights as described in paragraph (b)(2) of this section that were ordered for installation on that locomotive prior to January 1, 1996, is considered in compliance with §229.125(d)(1) through (3).

moderated Consolidated Roster

George Eichelberger
 


Begin forwarded message:

From: george eichelberger <geichelberger@...>
Subject: Re: Consolidated Roster
Date: December 13, 2018 at 9:41:58 AM EST

Jason:

I do not know which years’ Rosters are in the SRHA archives but if there is time, we will look for the 76-77 version at this weekend’s archives work session. Our books, engine operating manuals and some of our Mechanical Dept. files are unpacked and on the shelves. The rosters are not organized but they are where we can look. (The attached photo was taken during our last work session when the “book” side of one of the Spacesaver shelves was getting unpacked.)

The stairs to the second floor of the TVRM archive building were installed last week. We do not need that nearly 3,000 sq. ft. now but we wanted the “heavy” work to be finished as we continue to organize the collections. Anyone is welcome to join us tomorrow and Saturday at the building on Turntable Road adjacent to Grand Jct. at TVRM. We’ll start tomorrow around 10:00 and go as late as anyone wants then start again on Saturday about 8:00.

And…in addition to working on the collections at Chattanooga, we continue to scan as much as possible so material can be accessed without going to Chattanooga. Here is a link to an interesting example from the SRHA “Diesel” files. EMD introduced its E-8, FP-7, GP-7 and SW-7 models on October 26, 1949 at a luncheon at LaGrange, Ill. The file is the text of one of the speeches given then.


Ike



moderated A Silverside off-line?

D. Scott Chatfield
 

Anybody know the story behind this shot?  I didn't know the Silversides ever went off-line.  That appears to be a switcher's tender it's coupled to.  Hmmmm......

https://www.ebay.com/itm/DUPLICATE-SLIDE-Southern-SOU-1147-Gondola-Car-BRAND-NEW-Bristol-VA-1960/372534823381

Scott Chatfield

moderated Re: A Silverside off-line?

C J Wyatt
 

Probably new en route. I see a builder's date of 2/60. If I remember correctly N&W ran steam through April 1960, though increasingly isolated.

Thanks for sharing. This is something which you never thought you would have seen.

Jack Wyatt

On ‎Saturday‎, ‎December‎ ‎15‎, ‎2018‎ ‎01‎:‎03‎:‎57‎ ‎PM‎ ‎EST, D. Scott Chatfield <blindog@...> wrote:


Anybody know the story behind this shot?  I didn't know the Silversides ever went off-line.  That appears to be a switcher's tender it's coupled to.  Hmmmm......

https://www.ebay.com/itm/DUPLICATE-SLIDE-Southern-SOU-1147-Gondola-Car-BRAND-NEW-Bristol-VA-1960/372534823381

Scott Chatfield

moderated Re: A Silverside off-line?

Bill Schafer
 

They would have been brand new if they were switched by N&W steam. I don’t know the answer, but since the photo was taken in Bristol, the car could have been touched by N&W in the joint N&W-SOU yard or - maybe - N&W borrowed the car for a test. Just guesses.

—Bill

On Dec 15, 2018, at 1:03 PM, D. Scott Chatfield <blindog@...> wrote:

Anybody know the story behind this shot?  I didn't know the Silversides ever went off-line.  That appears to be a switcher's tender it's coupled to.  Hmmmm......


Scott Chatfield

moderated Re: A Silverside off-line?

Robert Graham
 

My guess (emphasize GUESS) is that SOU silverside shown in the slide is not being worked by N&W steam, but is coupled to N&W class M 4-8-0 433 (for some reason) that was restored cosmetically and is displayed on the Virginia Creeper Trail in Abingdon VA. That tender is obviously not one of the N&W S1 or S1a tenders based upon the drop equalizer truck under the tender. The regular N&W late steam-era switchers at Bristol were S1 & S1a 0-8-0's and also likely a class M 4-8-0 or 2 (several were around, including 433 & 376, but none would be that fresh in service in mid-1960). The final N&W steam operated in West VA on the Pocahontas Div in 1960. The SOU silverside gondolas were used in unit train service out of Westmoreland Coal's mines in SW Virginia in and around Appalachia VA & Andover VA (the INT terminal) and were run in service in the general vicinity of Bristol, although not actually through there. I would suspect the car was borrowed by N&W for examination and comparison purposes, as at that time, N&W had just acquired a fleet of former VGN large capacity coal service gondolas and had also owned their own similar cars.

Bob Graham


---- Bill Schafer <@bill4501> wrote:

They would have been brand new if they were switched by N&W steam. I don’t know the answer, but since the photo was taken in Bristol, the car could have been touched by N&W in the joint N&W-SOU yard or - maybe - N&W borrowed the car for a test. Just guesses.

—Bill

On Dec 15, 2018, at 1:03 PM, D. Scott Chatfield <blindog@...<mailto:blindog@...>> wrote:

Anybody know the story behind this shot? I didn't know the Silversides ever went off-line. That appears to be a switcher's tender it's coupled to. Hmmmm......

https://www.ebay.com/itm/DUPLICATE-SLIDE-Southern-SOU-1147-Gondola-Car-BRAND-NEW-Bristol-VA-1960/372534823381

Scott Chatfield



moderated Re: A Silverside off-line?

Jason Greene
 

I was thinking there must have some kind of display in Bristol for PR. The freshly painted tender is the give away with that late date. I think Bob Graham may be right, the Abington engine that was donated about that time would be a good guess.

Jason Greene

On Dec 15, 2018, at 3:30 PM, Robert Graham <rgraham2@...> wrote:

My guess (emphasize GUESS) is that SOU silverside shown in the slide is not being worked by N&W steam, but is coupled to N&W class M 4-8-0 433 (for some reason) that was restored cosmetically and is displayed on the Virginia Creeper Trail in Abingdon VA. That tender is obviously not one of the N&W S1 or S1a tenders based upon the drop equalizer truck under the tender. The regular N&W late steam-era switchers at Bristol were S1 & S1a 0-8-0's and also likely a class M 4-8-0 or 2 (several were around, including 433 & 376, but none would be that fresh in service in mid-1960). The final N&W steam operated in West VA on the Pocahontas Div in 1960. The SOU silverside gondolas were used in unit train service out of Westmoreland Coal's mines in SW Virginia in and around Appalachia VA & Andover VA (the INT terminal) and were run in service in the general vicinity of Bristol, although not actually through there. I would suspect the car was borrowed by N&W for examination and comparison purposes, as at that time, N&W had just acquired a fleet of former VGN large capacity coal service gondolas and had also owned their own similar cars.

Bob Graham


---- Bill Schafer <@bill4501> wrote:
They would have been brand new if they were switched by N&W steam. I don’t know the answer, but since the photo was taken in Bristol, the car could have been touched by N&W in the joint N&W-SOU yard or - maybe - N&W borrowed the car for a test. Just guesses.

—Bill

On Dec 15, 2018, at 1:03 PM, D. Scott Chatfield <blindog@...<mailto:blindog@...>> wrote:

Anybody know the story behind this shot? I didn't know the Silversides ever went off-line. That appears to be a switcher's tender it's coupled to. Hmmmm......

https://www.ebay.com/itm/DUPLICATE-SLIDE-Southern-SOU-1147-Gondola-Car-BRAND-NEW-Bristol-VA-1960/372534823381

Scott Chatfield