Date   
moderated Reply to Mark Demaline re: Southern Crescent photo - April 1, 1978

Bill Schafer
 



Begin forwarded message:

From: Linda and Bill Schafer <bill4501@...>
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Message Approval Needed - conductor7@... posted to main@SouthernRailway.groups.io
Date: July 6, 2020 at 08:13:47 EDT

Very interesting picture, Mark,

It raises a number of questions with those Amtrak cars on the rear. Thank goodness you recorded the exact day you took the photo - it might help with some speculative answers.

* April 1, 1978 was a Saturday. The trains 1 and 2 that operated to/from Atlanta on Saturdays terminated/originated there. Neither train went to/from New Orleans, so the ultimate destination of the equipment in your photo was Pegram Shop and North Avenue Coach Yard.

* April was the off season, so a train originating/terminating Atlanta in those days would be small - 7 or 8 cars. There appear to be deadheading cars in the consist of the train you photographed (or a special party).

* If I had to guess I’d say the first 7 or 8 cars were in revenue service, and everything behind them was either deadheading or a special party. 

* I don’t recall Amtrak cars in 1-2’s consist on days the train originated/terminated Atlanta. Normally, if you saw an Amtrak car in the consist, the train was going to/coming from New Orleans, IIRC.

* In your picture, the cars are, in order: baggage-dorm, two coaches, sleeper-tavern car (Crescent-series), dining car, three sleepers. One of those sleepers was an extra - not unusual if a bunch of deadheading employees were on the train. Behind the third sleeper appears to be another Crescent-series tavern car, then the Amtrak cars. It could be deadheading back to North Avenue from Hayne Shop, but I would think it would be on the rear if that was the case. 

* I can’t see enough of the first Amtrak car to tell what kind of car it is - looks like a coach, but can’t be sure. Wonder what the car behind it looked like. 

* We may never know why the second Crescent-series car was in the consist or what those Amtrak cars were doing on the rear, but it’s fun to speculate. Thanks for the photo.

—Bill 

PS: Attached is another consist from 1976. It shows the consist of 2nd no. 1 from Greensboro to Atlanta. When the train was split (i.e., ran in two sections), it was a New Orleans day. The first section would handle the thru cars - New York/Washington-New Orleans and would nominally only carry passengers getting on north of Washington or getting off south of Atlanta. The second section would carry local passengers (i.e., those getting on and getting off between Washington-Atlanta). It was always desirable to ride the second section if possible - it was less crowded and carried the tavern car. The first section could be a zoo. The dining car would be slammed and if there was a lounge car, it would likely be a coach lounge. 




On Jul 5, 2020, at 19:14, main@SouthernRailway.groups.io Notification <noreply@groups.io> wrote:

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Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Southern Crescent Consists

Looked thru a few of my slides to locate one showing most or all of the consist, and here is one of  #1, at Duluth GA, on April 1, 1978.
There are 9 Southern cars, with what looks like at least 2 Amtrak cars on the rear.
I had also photographed #1 here two days before, on March 30th, and that train had a total of 9 cars, all of them Southern, no Amtrak.
And on one of my trips to the D.C area in -- I believe -- also 1978, there was a transit strike, and at Alexandria, a good number of peopleboarded #2 there, for the trip into D.C.  One of the classiest "commuter" trains there was, to ride into work that day!

 ~ Mark D


-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Schafer <bill4501@...>


Because there has been some recent interest in actual consists of the Southern Crescent in its glory days (1972-1979), I have consulted some of my old pocket notebooks and transcribed the consists of all the trains I rode in 1976. Turns out I made at least 30 trips on trains 1-2 that year, mostly on business. Attached is one of those consists. If there is sufficient interest, I will post more. 
On March 12-13, my wife and I rode train 2 from Atlanta to Alexandria, probably to visit my family over the weekend near Baltimore. We often boarded and detrained at Alexandria because it was near I-495, and if we could persuade someone to pick us up when #2 arrived, we would be at the family homestead before Amtrak 172, the connection to New York, left Washington. The logic was similar for catching #2 for the return to Atlanta. The consist would always be sizable leaving Atlanta on a Friday night because the northbound train was running through from New Orleans. Our return consist on Sunday night was often smaller because the train terminated in Atlanta. 
I know the attachment is hard to read. It is a PDF, so to make it more legible, click on it, open it, and enlarge it. 
—Bill Schafer




<SOU.wb Crescent.6916+3.Duluth GA.04.01.78.Mark Demalien photo.copyrt 2020.jpg>



moderated Re: Reply to Mark Demaline re: Southern Crescent photo - April 1, 1978

Jason Greene
 

When did the kids in Atlanta make the trip to DC every year? These would have been the patrol students form the metro area school around Atlanta. 

Jason Greene 

On Jul 6, 2020, at 8:40 AM, Bill Schafer <bill4501@...> wrote:



Begin forwarded message:

From: Linda and Bill Schafer <bill4501@...>
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Message Approval Needed - conductor7@... posted to main@SouthernRailway.groups.io
Date: July 6, 2020 at 08:13:47 EDT

Very interesting picture, Mark,

It raises a number of questions with those Amtrak cars on the rear. Thank goodness you recorded the exact day you took the photo - it might help with some speculative answers.

* April 1, 1978 was a Saturday. The trains 1 and 2 that operated to/from Atlanta on Saturdays terminated/originated there. Neither train went to/from New Orleans, so the ultimate destination of the equipment in your photo was Pegram Shop and North Avenue Coach Yard.

* April was the off season, so a train originating/terminating Atlanta in those days would be small - 7 or 8 cars. There appear to be deadheading cars in the consist of the train you photographed (or a special party).

* If I had to guess I’d say the first 7 or 8 cars were in revenue service, and everything behind them was either deadheading or a special party. 

* I don’t recall Amtrak cars in 1-2’s consist on days the train originated/terminated Atlanta. Normally, if you saw an Amtrak car in the consist, the train was going to/coming from New Orleans, IIRC.

* In your picture, the cars are, in order: baggage-dorm, two coaches, sleeper-tavern car (Crescent-series), dining car, three sleepers. One of those sleepers was an extra - not unusual if a bunch of deadheading employees were on the train. Behind the third sleeper appears to be another Crescent-series tavern car, then the Amtrak cars. It could be deadheading back to North Avenue from Hayne Shop, but I would think it would be on the rear if that was the case. 

* I can’t see enough of the first Amtrak car to tell what kind of car it is - looks like a coach, but can’t be sure. Wonder what the car behind it looked like. 

* We may never know why the second Crescent-series car was in the consist or what those Amtrak cars were doing on the rear, but it’s fun to speculate. Thanks for the photo.

—Bill 

PS: Attached is another consist from 1976. It shows the consist of 2nd no. 1 from Greensboro to Atlanta. When the train was split (i.e., ran in two sections), it was a New Orleans day. The first section would handle the thru cars - New York/Washington-New Orleans and would nominally only carry passengers getting on north of Washington or getting off south of Atlanta. The second section would carry local passengers (i.e., those getting on and getting off between Washington-Atlanta). It was always desirable to ride the second section if possible - it was less crowded and carried the tavern car. The first section could be a zoo. The dining car would be slammed and if there was a lounge car, it would likely be a coach lounge. 



On Jul 5, 2020, at 19:14, main@SouthernRailway.groups.io Notification <noreply@groups.io> wrote:

A message was sent to the group https://SouthernRailway.groups.io/g/main from conductor7@... that needs to be approved.

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Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Southern Crescent Consists

Looked thru a few of my slides to locate one showing most or all of the consist, and here is one of  #1, at Duluth GA, on April 1, 1978.
There are 9 Southern cars, with what looks like at least 2 Amtrak cars on the rear.
I had also photographed #1 here two days before, on March 30th, and that train had a total of 9 cars, all of them Southern, no Amtrak.
And on one of my trips to the D.C area in -- I believe -- also 1978, there was a transit strike, and at Alexandria, a good number of peopleboarded #2 there, for the trip into D.C.  One of the classiest "commuter" trains there was, to ride into work that day!

 ~ Mark D


-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Schafer <bill4501@...>


Because there has been some recent interest in actual consists of the Southern Crescent in its glory days (1972-1979), I have consulted some of my old pocket notebooks and transcribed the consists of all the trains I rode in 1976. Turns out I made at least 30 trips on trains 1-2 that year, mostly on business. Attached is one of those consists. If there is sufficient interest, I will post more. 
On March 12-13, my wife and I rode train 2 from Atlanta to Alexandria, probably to visit my family over the weekend near Baltimore. We often boarded and detrained at Alexandria because it was near I-495, and if we could persuade someone to pick us up when #2 arrived, we would be at the family homestead before Amtrak 172, the connection to New York, left Washington. The logic was similar for catching #2 for the return to Atlanta. The consist would always be sizable leaving Atlanta on a Friday night because the northbound train was running through from New Orleans. Our return consist on Sunday night was often smaller because the train terminated in Atlanta. 
I know the attachment is hard to read. It is a PDF, so to make it more legible, click on it, open it, and enlarge it. 
—Bill Schafer




<SOU.wb Crescent.6916+3.Duluth GA.04.01.78.Mark Demalien photo.copyrt 2020.jpg>



<1976 - Aug 1-2 SOU 2nd 1 Greensboro-Atlanta.pdf>

moderated Re: Southern Crescent Consists

Jason Greene
 

Thanks Bill for sharing you consists, pictures, and knowledge. 

Jason Greene 

On Jul 6, 2020, at 8:35 AM, Bill Schafer <bill4501@...> wrote:

Jason:

Heavyweight cars on the Southern Crescent were not common but not unknown. More common were the ex-CofG lightweights off the Nancy Hanks, City of Miami, and/or Man O’War. You’d likely see the heavyweights in service during heavy travel periods - Thanksgiving, Christmas for example. Attached are images of 2nd 1 passing through Norcross, Ga., on Thanksgiving Day, 1976. On this day, the first section was the short section and ran on time, protecting the schedule; the connecting cars from New York must have been late arriving Washington, so the New Orleans train ran as the second section. On the rear is a modernized heavyweight, which I assumed was in regular service. 

As for the two heavyweights on the rear in my March consist, there are three possible explanations - they are in regular service, they are deadheading to Hayne, they are on there for a special party. I didn’t make a note at the time, so really don’t know the answer. For modelers, I guess the message is that it’s perfectly okay to have a modernized heavyweight coach in the consist of the Southern Crescent. It most likely would be found on the front or the rear of the consist and you can make up whatever reason you want for its presence. 

—Bill

<SOU 6903 on train 2nd 1 at Norcross Ga Nov 1976 GWS photo.tiff>
<SOU train 2nd 1 at Norcross Ga. 6902 rear unit - Thanksgiving Day, Nov 25, 1976 GWS photo.tiff>
<SOU 2nd No. 1 at Norcross Ga. Thanksgiving Day Nov 1976 GWS photo.tiff>






On Jul 5, 2020, at 19:24, Jason Greene <jason.p.greene@...> wrote:

Were the heavyweight coaches dead head or active? How common would they be on the Crescent?

Jason Greene 

On Jul 5, 2020, at 5:17 PM, Bill Schafer <bill4501@...> wrote:

Because there has been some recent interest in actual consists of the Southern Crescent in its glory days (1972-1979), I have consulted some of my old pocket notebooks and transcribed the consists of all the trains I rode in 1976. Turns out I made at least 30 trips on trains 1-2 that year, mostly on business. Attached is one of those consists. If there is sufficient interest, I will post more. 

On March 12-13, my wife and I rode train 2 from Atlanta to Alexandria, probably to visit my family over the weekend near Baltimore. We often boarded and detrained at Alexandria because it was near I-495, and if we could persuade someone to pick us up when #2 arrived, we would be at the family homestead before Amtrak 172, the connection to New York, left Washington. The logic was similar for catching #2 for the return to Atlanta. The consist would always be sizable leaving Atlanta on a Friday night because the northbound train was running through from New Orleans. Our return consist on Sunday night was often smaller because the train terminated in Atlanta. 

I know the attachment is hard to read. It is a PDF, so to make it more legible, click on it, open it, and enlarge it. 

—Bill Schafer



<1976 - Mar. 12-13 SOU 2 Atlanta-Alexandria.pdf>

moderated Re: Reply to Mark Demaline re: Southern Crescent photo - April 1, 1978

Carl Ardrey
 

Spring Break.  Here is Second No 2 in Birmingham with 14 coaches and 4 diners on 3-15-72. Slide by FEA

On 07/06/2020 8:24 AM Jason Greene <jason.p.greene@...> wrote:


When did the kids in Atlanta make the trip to DC every year? These would have been the patrol students form the metro area school around Atlanta. 

Jason Greene 

On Jul 6, 2020, at 8:40 AM, Bill Schafer <bill4501@...> wrote:



Begin forwarded message:
From: Linda and Bill Schafer <bill4501@...>
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Message Approval Needed - conductor7@... posted to main@SouthernRailway.groups.io
Date: July 6, 2020 at 08:13:47 EDT

Very interesting picture, Mark,

It raises a number of questions with those Amtrak cars on the rear. Thank goodness you recorded the exact day you took the photo - it might help with some speculative answers.

* April 1, 1978 was a Saturday. The trains 1 and 2 that operated to/from Atlanta on Saturdays terminated/originated there. Neither train went to/from New Orleans, so the ultimate destination of the equipment in your photo was Pegram Shop and North Avenue Coach Yard.

* April was the off season, so a train originating/terminating Atlanta in those days would be small - 7 or 8 cars. There appear to be deadheading cars in the consist of the train you photographed (or a special party).

* If I had to guess I’d say the first 7 or 8 cars were in revenue service, and everything behind them was either deadheading or a special party. 

* I don’t recall Amtrak cars in 1-2’s consist on days the train originated/terminated Atlanta. Normally, if you saw an Amtrak car in the consist, the train was going to/coming from New Orleans, IIRC.

* In your picture, the cars are, in order: baggage-dorm, two coaches, sleeper-tavern car ( Crescent-series), dining car, three sleepers. One of those sleepers was an extra - not unusual if a bunch of deadheading employees were on the train. Behind the third sleeper appears to be another Crescent-series tavern car, then the Amtrak cars. It could be deadheading back to North Avenue from Hayne Shop, but I would think it would be on the rear if that was the case. 

* I can’t see enough of the first Amtrak car to tell what kind of car it is - looks like a coach, but can’t be sure. Wonder what the car behind it looked like. 

* We may never know why the second Crescent-series car was in the consist or what those Amtrak cars were doing on the rear, but it’s fun to speculate. Thanks for the photo.

—Bill 

PS: Attached is another consist from 1976. It shows the consist of 2nd no. 1 from Greensboro to Atlanta. When the train was split (i.e., ran in two sections), it was a New Orleans day. The first section would handle the thru cars - New York/Washington-New Orleans and would nominally only carry passengers getting on north of Washington or getting off south of Atlanta. The second section would carry local passengers (i.e., those getting on and getting off between Washington-Atlanta). It was always desirable to ride the second section if possible - it was less crowded and carried the tavern car. The first section could be a zoo. The dining car would be slammed and if there was a lounge car, it would likely be a coach lounge. 





On Jul 5, 2020, at 19:14, main@SouthernRailway.groups.io Notification < noreply@groups.io> wrote:

A message was sent to the group https://SouthernRailway.groups.io/g/main from conductor7@... that needs to be approved.

View this message online

Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Southern Crescent Consists

Looked thru a few of my slides to locate one showing most or all of the consist, and here is one of  #1, at Duluth GA, on April 1, 1978.
There are 9 Southern cars, with what looks like at least 2 Amtrak cars on the rear.
I had also photographed #1 here two days before, on March 30th, and that train had a total of 9 cars, all of them Southern, no Amtrak.
And on one of my trips to the D.C area in -- I believe -- also 1978, there was a transit strike, and at Alexandria, a good number of peopleboarded #2 there, for the trip into D.C.  One of the classiest "commuter" trains there was, to ride into work that day!

 ~ Mark D


-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Schafer <bill4501@...>


Because there has been some recent interest in actual consists of the Southern Crescent in its glory days (1972-1979), I have consulted some of my old pocket notebooks and transcribed the consists of all the trains I rode in 1976. Turns out I made at least 30 trips on trains 1-2 that year, mostly on business. Attached is one of those consists. If there is sufficient interest, I will post more. 
On March 12-13, my wife and I rode train 2 from Atlanta to Alexandria, probably to visit my family over the weekend near Baltimore. We often boarded and detrained at Alexandria because it was near I-495, and if we could persuade someone to pick us up when #2 arrived, we would be at the family homestead before Amtrak 172, the connection to New York, left Washington. The logic was similar for catching #2 for the return to Atlanta. The consist would always be sizable leaving Atlanta on a Friday night because the northbound train was running through from New Orleans. Our return consist on Sunday night was often smaller because the train terminated in Atlanta. 
I know the attachment is hard to read. It is a PDF, so to make it more legible, click on it, open it, and enlarge it. 
—Bill Schafer




<SOU.wb Crescent.6916+3.Duluth GA.04.01.78.Mark Demalien photo.copyrt 2020.jpg>



<1976 - Aug 1-2 SOU 2nd 1 Greensboro-Atlanta.pdf>

moderated Re: Reply to Mark Demaline re: Southern Crescent photo - April 1, 1978

Bill Schafer
 

In the Southern Crescent era, the DeKalb County and Fulton County safety patrol trains operated in early-May, and were always special trains. While similar school groups may have been carried on the Southern Crescent in a few extra cars, I can’t think of any off the top of my head. The DeKalb and Fulton trains were extras and operated at least once in the Amtrak (post-Feb. 1, 1979) era.

Concerning my earlier post about the Southern Crescent running in two sections: according to my logs, the Southern wasn’t consistent as to which section ran first - the New Orleans section or the Atlanta section. My sense is that the New Orleans section ran first if the cars connecting from New York arrived Washington on time. If they were late - and in busy times they often were - the Atlanta section was dispatched first. 

—Bill

On Jul 6, 2020, at 09:24, Jason Greene <jason.p.greene@...> wrote:

When did the kids in Atlanta make the trip to DC every year? These would have been the patrol students form the metro area school around Atlanta. 

Jason Greene 

On Jul 6, 2020, at 8:40 AM, Bill Schafer <bill4501@...> wrote:



Begin forwarded message:

From: Linda and Bill Schafer <bill4501@...>
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Message Approval Needed - conductor7@... posted to main@SouthernRailway.groups.io
Date: July 6, 2020 at 08:13:47 EDT

Very interesting picture, Mark,

It raises a number of questions with those Amtrak cars on the rear. Thank goodness you recorded the exact day you took the photo - it might help with some speculative answers.

* April 1, 1978 was a Saturday. The trains 1 and 2 that operated to/from Atlanta on Saturdays terminated/originated there. Neither train went to/from New Orleans, so the ultimate destination of the equipment in your photo was Pegram Shop and North Avenue Coach Yard.

* April was the off season, so a train originating/terminating Atlanta in those days would be small - 7 or 8 cars. There appear to be deadheading cars in the consist of the train you photographed (or a special party).

* If I had to guess I’d say the first 7 or 8 cars were in revenue service, and everything behind them was either deadheading or a special party. 

* I don’t recall Amtrak cars in 1-2’s consist on days the train originated/terminated Atlanta. Normally, if you saw an Amtrak car in the consist, the train was going to/coming from New Orleans, IIRC.

* In your picture, the cars are, in order: baggage-dorm, two coaches, sleeper-tavern car (Crescent-series), dining car, three sleepers. One of those sleepers was an extra - not unusual if a bunch of deadheading employees were on the train. Behind the third sleeper appears to be another Crescent-series tavern car, then the Amtrak cars. It could be deadheading back to North Avenue from Hayne Shop, but I would think it would be on the rear if that was the case. 

* I can’t see enough of the first Amtrak car to tell what kind of car it is - looks like a coach, but can’t be sure. Wonder what the car behind it looked like. 

* We may never know why the second Crescent-series car was in the consist or what those Amtrak cars were doing on the rear, but it’s fun to speculate. Thanks for the photo.

—Bill 

PS: Attached is another consist from 1976. It shows the consist of 2nd no. 1 from Greensboro to Atlanta. When the train was split (i.e., ran in two sections), it was a New Orleans day. The first section would handle the thru cars - New York/Washington-New Orleans and would nominally only carry passengers getting on north of Washington or getting off south of Atlanta. The second section would carry local passengers (i.e., those getting on and getting off between Washington-Atlanta). It was always desirable to ride the second section if possible - it was less crowded and carried the tavern car. The first section could be a zoo. The dining car would be slammed and if there was a lounge car, it would likely be a coach lounge. 



On Jul 5, 2020, at 19:14, main@SouthernRailway.groups.io Notification <noreply@groups.io> wrote:

A message was sent to the group https://SouthernRailway.groups.io/g/main from conductor7@... that needs to be approved.

View this message online

Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Southern Crescent Consists

Looked thru a few of my slides to locate one showing most or all of the consist, and here is one of  #1, at Duluth GA, on April 1, 1978. 
There are 9 Southern cars, with what looks like at least 2 Amtrak cars on the rear.
I had also photographed #1 here two days before, on March 30th, and that train had a total of 9 cars, all of them Southern, no Amtrak.
And on one of my trips to the D.C area in -- I believe -- also 1978, there was a transit strike, and at Alexandria, a good number of peopleboarded #2 there, for the trip into D.C.  One of the classiest "commuter" trains there was, to ride into work that day!

 ~ Mark D


-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Schafer <bill4501@...>


Because there has been some recent interest in actual consists of the Southern Crescent in its glory days (1972-1979), I have consulted some of my old pocket notebooks and transcribed the consists of all the trains I rode in 1976. Turns out I made at least 30 trips on trains 1-2 that year, mostly on business. Attached is one of those consists. If there is sufficient interest, I will post more. 
On March 12-13, my wife and I rode train 2 from Atlanta to Alexandria, probably to visit my family over the weekend near Baltimore. We often boarded and detrained at Alexandria because it was near I-495, and if we could persuade someone to pick us up when #2 arrived, we would be at the family homestead before Amtrak 172, the connection to New York, left Washington. The logic was similar for catching #2 for the return to Atlanta. The consist would always be sizable leaving Atlanta on a Friday night because the northbound train was running through from New Orleans. Our return consist on Sunday night was often smaller because the train terminated in Atlanta. 
I know the attachment is hard to read. It is a PDF, so to make it more legible, click on it, open it, and enlarge it. 
—Bill Schafer




<SOU.wb Crescent.6916+3.Duluth GA.04.01.78.Mark Demalien photo.copyrt 2020.jpg>



<1976 - Aug 1-2 SOU 2nd 1 Greensboro-Atlanta.pdf>

moderated Re: Reply to Mark Demaline re: Southern Crescent photo - April 1, 1978

Bill Schafer
 

That’s a typical school kids special. The kids ate simple meals in the dining car, but those trains tended to run with a lot of dining cars. 

The Birmingham students may have made their annual trip to Washington during spring break, but I’m pretty sure the Atlanta area school kid trains ran in early May.

—Bill

On Jul 6, 2020, at 09:33, Carl Ardrey <carlardrey2005@...> wrote:

Spring Break.  Here is Second No 2 in Birmingham with 14 coaches and 4 diners on 3-15-72. Slide by FEA 
On 07/06/2020 8:24 AM Jason Greene <jason.p.greene@...> wrote:


When did the kids in Atlanta make the trip to DC every year? These would have been the patrol students form the metro area school around Atlanta.  

Jason Greene 

On Jul 6, 2020, at 8:40 AM, Bill Schafer <bill4501@...> wrote: 



Begin forwarded message:
From: Linda and Bill Schafer <bill4501@...>
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Message Approval Needed - conductor7@... posted to main@SouthernRailway.groups.io
Date: July 6, 2020 at 08:13:47 EDT

Very interesting picture, Mark,

It raises a number of questions with those Amtrak cars on the rear. Thank goodness you recorded the exact day you took the photo - it might help with some speculative answers.

* April 1, 1978 was a Saturday. The trains 1 and 2 that operated to/from Atlanta on Saturdays terminated/originated there. Neither train went to/from New Orleans, so the ultimate destination of the equipment in your photo was Pegram Shop and North Avenue Coach Yard.

* April was the off season, so a train originating/terminating Atlanta in those days would be small - 7 or 8 cars. There appear to be deadheading cars in the consist of the train you photographed (or a special party).

* If I had to guess I’d say the first 7 or 8 cars were in revenue service, and everything behind them was either deadheading or a special party. 

* I don’t recall Amtrak cars in 1-2’s consist on days the train originated/terminated Atlanta. Normally, if you saw an Amtrak car in the consist, the train was going to/coming from New Orleans, IIRC.

* In your picture, the cars are, in order: baggage-dorm, two coaches, sleeper-tavern car ( Crescent-series), dining car, three sleepers. One of those sleepers was an extra - not unusual if a bunch of deadheading employees were on the train. Behind the third sleeper appears to be another Crescent-series tavern car, then the Amtrak cars. It could be deadheading back to North Avenue from Hayne Shop, but I would think it would be on the rear if that was the case. 

* I can’t see enough of the first Amtrak car to tell what kind of car it is - looks like a coach, but can’t be sure. Wonder what the car behind it looked like. 

* We may never know why the second Crescent-series car was in the consist or what those Amtrak cars were doing on the rear, but it’s fun to speculate. Thanks for the photo.

—Bill 

PS: Attached is another consist from 1976. It shows the consist of 2nd no. 1 from Greensboro to Atlanta. When the train was split (i.e., ran in two sections), it was a New Orleans day. The first section would handle the thru cars - New York/Washington-New Orleans and would nominally only carry passengers getting on north of Washington or getting off south of Atlanta. The second section would carry local passengers (i.e., those getting on and getting off between Washington-Atlanta). It was always desirable to ride the second section if possible - it was less crowded and carried the tavern car. The first section could be a zoo. The dining car would be slammed and if there was a lounge car, it would likely be a coach lounge. 





On Jul 5, 2020, at 19:14, main@SouthernRailway.groups.io Notification < noreply@groups.io> wrote:

A message was sent to the group https://SouthernRailway.groups.io/g/main from conductor7@... that needs to be approved.

View this message online

Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Southern Crescent Consists

Looked thru a few of my slides to locate one showing most or all of the consist, and here is one of  #1, at Duluth GA, on April 1, 1978. 
There are 9 Southern cars, with what looks like at least 2 Amtrak cars on the rear.
I had also photographed #1 here two days before, on March 30th, and that train had a total of 9 cars, all of them Southern, no Amtrak.
And on one of my trips to the D.C area in -- I believe -- also 1978, there was a transit strike, and at Alexandria, a good number of peopleboarded #2 there, for the trip into D.C.  One of the classiest "commuter" trains there was, to ride into work that day!

 ~ Mark D


-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Schafer <bill4501@...>


Because there has been some recent interest in actual consists of the Southern Crescent in its glory days (1972-1979), I have consulted some of my old pocket notebooks and transcribed the consists of all the trains I rode in 1976. Turns out I made at least 30 trips on trains 1-2 that year, mostly on business. Attached is one of those consists. If there is sufficient interest, I will post more. 
On March 12-13, my wife and I rode train 2 from Atlanta to Alexandria, probably to visit my family over the weekend near Baltimore. We often boarded and detrained at Alexandria because it was near I-495, and if we could persuade someone to pick us up when #2 arrived, we would be at the family homestead before Amtrak 172, the connection to New York, left Washington. The logic was similar for catching #2 for the return to Atlanta. The consist would always be sizable leaving Atlanta on a Friday night because the northbound train was running through from New Orleans. Our return consist on Sunday night was often smaller because the train terminated in Atlanta. 
I know the attachment is hard to read. It is a PDF, so to make it more legible, click on it, open it, and enlarge it. 
—Bill Schafer




<SOU.wb Crescent.6916+3.Duluth GA.04.01.78.Mark Demalien photo.copyrt 2020.jpg> 



<1976 - Aug 1-2 SOU 2nd 1 Greensboro-Atlanta.pdf>
<2-No 2, School Special, 14 coaches, 4 diners, 3-15-72.jpg>

moderated Re: Reply to Mark Demaline re: Southern Crescent photo - extra sections

Mark Demaline
 

Regarding 2nd sections, I looked thru more of my notes & slides, and found two instances which I photographed =

  - On March 31, 1978, I was at the Peachtree station in the evening, and they ran an extra section of #2, with two E-units,
    6907 in the lead. Both sections were at the platform at the same time that evening. I obviously wasn't able to confirm it,
    but was told the extra section was a "Boy Scout trip special". The 1st section had 4 E's (6905 was the trailing unit) and
    a long consist.

  - And, on a hazy July 22, 1978, evening, I photographed a First section of #1 crossing the bridge over Lake Accotink, in
    Springfield (Fairfax County) VA, also behind 2 E's.

    ~ Mark D

-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Schafer <bill4501@...>


That’s a typical school kids special. The kids ate simple meals in the dining car, but those trains tended to run with a lot of dining cars. 

The Birmingham students may have made their annual trip to Washington during spring break, but I’m pretty sure the Atlanta area school kid trains ran in early May.

—Bill

On Jul 6, 2020, at 09:33, Carl Ardrey <carlardrey2005@...> wrote:

Spring Break.  Here is Second No 2 in Birmingham with 14 coaches and 4 diners on 3-15-72. Slide by FEA 
On 07/06/2020 8:24 AM Jason Greene <jason.p.greene@...> wrote:


When did the kids in Atlanta make the trip to DC every year? These would have been the patrol students form the metro area school around Atlanta.  

Jason Greene 

On Jul 6, 2020, at 8:40 AM, Bill Schafer <bill4501@...> wrote: 



Begin forwarded message:
From: Linda and Bill Schafer <bill4501@...>
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Message Approval Needed - conductor7@... posted to main@SouthernRailway.groups.io
Date: July 6, 2020 at 08:13:47 EDT

Very interesting picture, Mark,

It raises a number of questions with those Amtrak cars on the rear. Thank goodness you recorded the exact day you took the photo - it might help with some speculative answers.

* April 1, 1978 was a Saturday. The trains 1 and 2 that operated to/from Atlanta on Saturdays terminated/originated there. Neither train went to/from New Orleans, so the ultimate destination of the equipment in your photo was Pegram Shop and North Avenue Coach Yard.

* April was the off season, so a train originating/terminating Atlanta in those days would be small - 7 or 8 cars. There appear to be deadheading cars in the consist of the train you photographed (or a special party).

* If I had to guess I’d say the first 7 or 8 cars were in revenue service, and everything behind them was either deadheading or a special party. 

* I don’t recall Amtrak cars in 1-2’s consist on days the train originated/terminated Atlanta. Normally, if you saw an Amtrak car in the consist, the train was going to/coming from New Orleans, IIRC.

* In your picture, the cars are, in order: baggage-dorm, two coaches, sleeper-tavern car ( Crescent-series), dining car, three sleepers. One of those sleepers was an extra - not unusual if a bunch of deadheading employees were on the train. Behind the third sleeper appears to be another Crescent-series tavern car, then the Amtrak cars. It could be deadheading back to North Avenue from Hayne Shop, but I would think it would be on the rear if that was the case. 

* I can’t see enough of the first Amtrak car to tell what kind of car it is - looks like a coach, but can’t be sure. Wonder what the car behind it looked like. 

* We may never know why the second Crescent-series car was in the consist or what those Amtrak cars were doing on the rear, but it’s fun to speculate. Thanks for the photo.

—Bill 

PS: Attached is another consist from 1976. It shows the consist of 2nd no. 1 from Greensboro to Atlanta. When the train was split (i.e., ran in two sections), it was a New Orleans day. The first section would handle the thru cars - New York/Washington-New Orleans and would nominally only carry passengers getting on north of Washington or getting off south of Atlanta. The second section would carry local passengers (i.e., those getting on and getting off between Washington-Atlanta). It was always desirable to ride the second section if possible - it was less crowded and carried the tavern car. The first section could be a zoo. The dining car would be slammed and if there was a lounge car, it would likely be a coach lounge. 





On Jul 5, 2020, at 19:14, main@SouthernRailway.groups.io Notification < noreply@groups.io> wrote:
A message was sent to the group https://SouthernRailway.groups.io/g/main from conductor7@... that needs to be approved.
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Southern Crescent Consists
Looked thru a few of my slides to locate one showing most or all of the consist, and here is one of  #1, at Duluth GA, on April 1, 1978. 
There are 9 Southern cars, with what looks like at least 2 Amtrak cars on the rear.
I had also photographed #1 here two days before, on March 30th, and that train had a total of 9 cars, all of them Southern, no Amtrak.
And on one of my trips to the D.C area in -- I believe -- also 1978, there was a transit strike, and at Alexandria, a good number of peopleboarded #2 there, for the trip into D.C.  One of the classiest "commuter" trains there was, to ride into work that day!

 ~ Mark D


-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Schafer <bill4501@...>


Because there has been some recent interest in actual consists of the Southern Crescent in its glory days (1972-1979), I have consulted some of my old pocket notebooks and transcribed the consists of all the trains I rode in 1976. Turns out I made at least 30 trips on trains 1-2 that year, mostly on business. Attached is one of those consists. If there is sufficient interest, I will post more. 
On March 12-13, my wife and I rode train 2 from Atlanta to Alexandria, probably to visit my family over the weekend near Baltimore. We often boarded and detrained at Alexandria because it was near I-495, and if we could persuade someone to pick us up when #2 arrived, we would be at the family homestead before Amtrak 172, the connection to New York, left Washington. The logic was similar for catching #2 for the return to Atlanta. The consist would always be sizable leaving Atlanta on a Friday night because the northbound train was running through from New Orleans. Our return consist on Sunday night was often smaller because the train terminated in Atlanta. 
I know the attachment is hard to read. It is a PDF, so to make it more legible, click on it, open it, and enlarge it. 
—Bill Schafer




<SOU.wb Crescent.6916+3.Duluth GA.04.01.78.Mark Demalien photo.copyrt 2020.jpg> 



<1976 - Aug 1-2 SOU 2nd 1 Greensboro-Atlanta.pdf>
<2-No 2, School Special, 14 coaches, 4 diners, 3-15-72.jpg>

moderated Re: Reply to Mark Demaline re: Southern Crescent photo - extra sections

Bill Schafer
 

Mark:

Interesting info, Mark,

The March 31 train with the two E8s probably was a special of some kind.  The giveaway is that the first, or regular, section had four E8s, and it had a long train because on Friday nights the train came from New Orleans, northbound. 

When SOU split the Southern Crescent because of heavy loadings, like during the summertime, the Washington-Atlanta section would run with two E8s and the NY-NOLA section would run with three E8s. The trigger for splitting the train was length - if reservations for the train resulted in over 18 cars, they would run it in two sections. If you ever got a photo of a Southern Crescent with five E8s, it probably was the engine set that had powered two sections on a previous day. 

—Bill

On Jul 6, 2020, at 10:39, Mark Demaline via groups.io <conductor7@...> wrote:

Regarding 2nd sections, I looked thru more of my notes & slides, and found two instances which I photographed =

  - On March 31, 1978, I was at the Peachtree station in the evening, and they ran an extra section of #2, with two E-units,
    6907 in the lead. Both sections were at the platform at the same time that evening. I obviously wasn't able to confirm it,
    but was told the extra section was a "Boy Scout trip special". The 1st section had 4 E's (6905 was the trailing unit) and
    a long consist.

  - And, on a hazy July 22, 1978, evening, I photographed a First section of #1 crossing the bridge over Lake Accotink, in
    Springfield (Fairfax County) VA, also behind 2 E's.

    ~ Mark D

-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Schafer <bill4501@...>


That’s a typical school kids special. The kids ate simple meals in the dining car, but those trains tended to run with a lot of dining cars. 

The Birmingham students may have made their annual trip to Washington during spring break, but I’m pretty sure the Atlanta area school kid trains ran in early May.

—Bill

On Jul 6, 2020, at 09:33, Carl Ardrey <carlardrey2005@...> wrote:

Spring Break.  Here is Second No 2 in Birmingham with 14 coaches and 4 diners on 3-15-72. Slide by FEA 
On 07/06/2020 8:24 AM Jason Greene <jason.p.greene@...> wrote:


When did the kids in Atlanta make the trip to DC every year? These would have been the patrol students form the metro area school around Atlanta.  

Jason Greene 

On Jul 6, 2020, at 8:40 AM, Bill Schafer <bill4501@...> wrote: 



Begin forwarded message:
From: Linda and Bill Schafer <bill4501@...>
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Message Approval Needed - conductor7@... posted to main@SouthernRailway.groups.io
Date: July 6, 2020 at 08:13:47 EDT

Very interesting picture, Mark,

It raises a number of questions with those Amtrak cars on the rear. Thank goodness you recorded the exact day you took the photo - it might help with some speculative answers.

* April 1, 1978 was a Saturday. The trains 1 and 2 that operated to/from Atlanta on Saturdays terminated/originated there. Neither train went to/from New Orleans, so the ultimate destination of the equipment in your photo was Pegram Shop and North Avenue Coach Yard.

* April was the off season, so a train originating/terminating Atlanta in those days would be small - 7 or 8 cars. There appear to be deadheading cars in the consist of the train you photographed (or a special party).

* If I had to guess I’d say the first 7 or 8 cars were in revenue service, and everything behind them was either deadheading or a special party. 

* I don’t recall Amtrak cars in 1-2’s consist on days the train originated/terminated Atlanta. Normally, if you saw an Amtrak car in the consist, the train was going to/coming from New Orleans, IIRC.

* In your picture, the cars are, in order: baggage-dorm, two coaches, sleeper-tavern car ( Crescent-series), dining car, three sleepers. One of those sleepers was an extra - not unusual if a bunch of deadheading employees were on the train. Behind the third sleeper appears to be another Crescent-series tavern car, then the Amtrak cars. It could be deadheading back to North Avenue from Hayne Shop, but I would think it would be on the rear if that was the case. 

* I can’t see enough of the first Amtrak car to tell what kind of car it is - looks like a coach, but can’t be sure. Wonder what the car behind it looked like. 

* We may never know why the second Crescent-series car was in the consist or what those Amtrak cars were doing on the rear, but it’s fun to speculate. Thanks for the photo.

—Bill 

PS: Attached is another consist from 1976. It shows the consist of 2nd no. 1 from Greensboro to Atlanta. When the train was split (i.e., ran in two sections), it was a New Orleans day. The first section would handle the thru cars - New York/Washington-New Orleans and would nominally only carry passengers getting on north of Washington or getting off south of Atlanta. The second section would carry local passengers (i.e., those getting on and getting off between Washington-Atlanta). It was always desirable to ride the second section if possible - it was less crowded and carried the tavern car. The first section could be a zoo. The dining car would be slammed and if there was a lounge car, it would likely be a coach lounge. 





On Jul 5, 2020, at 19:14, main@SouthernRailway.groups.io Notification < noreply@groups.io> wrote:
A message was sent to the group https://SouthernRailway.groups.io/g/main from conductor7@... that needs to be approved.
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Southern Crescent Consists
Looked thru a few of my slides to locate one showing most or all of the consist, and here is one of  #1, at Duluth GA, on April 1, 1978. 
There are 9 Southern cars, with what looks like at least 2 Amtrak cars on the rear.
I had also photographed #1 here two days before, on March 30th, and that train had a total of 9 cars, all of them Southern, no Amtrak.
And on one of my trips to the D.C area in -- I believe -- also 1978, there was a transit strike, and at Alexandria, a good number of peopleboarded #2 there, for the trip into D.C.  One of the classiest "commuter" trains there was, to ride into work that day!

 ~ Mark D


-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Schafer <bill4501@...>


Because there has been some recent interest in actual consists of the Southern Crescent in its glory days (1972-1979), I have consulted some of my old pocket notebooks and transcribed the consists of all the trains I rode in 1976. Turns out I made at least 30 trips on trains 1-2 that year, mostly on business. Attached is one of those consists. If there is sufficient interest, I will post more. 
On March 12-13, my wife and I rode train 2 from Atlanta to Alexandria, probably to visit my family over the weekend near Baltimore. We often boarded and detrained at Alexandria because it was near I-495, and if we could persuade someone to pick us up when #2 arrived, we would be at the family homestead before Amtrak 172, the connection to New York, left Washington. The logic was similar for catching #2 for the return to Atlanta. The consist would always be sizable leaving Atlanta on a Friday night because the northbound train was running through from New Orleans. Our return consist on Sunday night was often smaller because the train terminated in Atlanta. 
I know the attachment is hard to read. It is a PDF, so to make it more legible, click on it, open it, and enlarge it. 
—Bill Schafer




<SOU.wb Crescent.6916+3.Duluth GA.04.01.78.Mark Demalien photo.copyrt 2020.jpg> 



<1976 - Aug 1-2 SOU 2nd 1 Greensboro-Atlanta.pdf>
<2-No 2, School Special, 14 coaches, 4 diners, 3-15-72.jpg>


moderated Re: Southern Crescent Consist - rear of train, 4/01/78

Mark Demaline
 

Bill,
 In looking thru more of my SOU slides, I realized I DID have one of the rear of the 4/01/78 train, as I had arrived
at Peachtree in time to see him arrive and let the passengers off the train. I took some head-end photos, and then
stayed until the train departed, getting a photo of the last three cars -- which turned out to be that Amtrak car, plus
two more Southern cars. So here is one showing the rear of that 12 car train.  Hey, I'm getting old, and my memory
is a bit rusty!  ~ Mark D




-----Original Message-----

Sent: Sun, Jul 5, 2020 7:14 pm
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Southern Crescent Consists

Looked thru a few of my slides to locate one showing most or all of the consist, and here is one of  #1, at Duluth GA, on April 1, 1978.
There are 9 Southern cars, with what looks like at least 2 Amtrak cars on the rear.

I had also photographed #1 here two days before, on March 30th, and that train had a total of 9 cars, all of them Southern, no Amtrak.

And on one of my trips to the D.C area in -- I believe -- also 1978, there was a transit strike, and at Alexandria, a good number of people
boarded #2 there, for the trip into D.C.  One of the classiest "commuter" trains there was, to ride into work that day!

 ~ Mark







moderated Re: Southern Crescent Consists

Jim Younger
 

Hi guys

I hate to ask a SRR 101 question but what does the red/white sign on the Es say?  

I know it has something to do with southern signer(s) of the Declaration of Independence. Was there one or several?

Regards 

Jim Younger


On Jul 6, 2020, at 9:28 AM, Jason Greene <jason.p.greene@...> wrote:

Thanks Bill for sharing you consists, pictures, and knowledge. 

Jason Greene 

On Jul 6, 2020, at 8:35 AM, Bill Schafer <bill4501@...> wrote:

Jason:

Heavyweight cars on the Southern Crescent were not common but not unknown. More common were the ex-CofG lightweights off the Nancy Hanks, City of Miami, and/or Man O’War. You’d likely see the heavyweights in service during heavy travel periods - Thanksgiving, Christmas for example. Attached are images of 2nd 1 passing through Norcross, Ga., on Thanksgiving Day, 1976. On this day, the first section was the short section and ran on time, protecting the schedule; the connecting cars from New York must have been late arriving Washington, so the New Orleans train ran as the second section. On the rear is a modernized heavyweight, which I assumed was in regular service. 

As for the two heavyweights on the rear in my March consist, there are three possible explanations - they are in regular service, they are deadheading to Hayne, they are on there for a special party. I didn’t make a note at the time, so really don’t know the answer. For modelers, I guess the message is that it’s perfectly okay to have a modernized heavyweight coach in the consist of the Southern Crescent. It most likely would be found on the front or the rear of the consist and you can make up whatever reason you want for its presence. 

—Bill

<SOU 6903 on train 2nd 1 at Norcross Ga Nov 1976 GWS photo.tiff>
<SOU train 2nd 1 at Norcross Ga. 6902 rear unit - Thanksgiving Day, Nov 25, 1976 GWS photo.tiff>
<SOU 2nd No. 1 at Norcross Ga. Thanksgiving Day Nov 1976 GWS photo.tiff>






On Jul 5, 2020, at 19:24, Jason Greene <jason.p.greene@...> wrote:

Were the heavyweight coaches dead head or active? How common would they be on the Crescent?

Jason Greene 

On Jul 5, 2020, at 5:17 PM, Bill Schafer <bill4501@...> wrote:

Because there has been some recent interest in actual consists of the Southern Crescent in its glory days (1972-1979), I have consulted some of my old pocket notebooks and transcribed the consists of all the trains I rode in 1976. Turns out I made at least 30 trips on trains 1-2 that year, mostly on business. Attached is one of those consists. If there is sufficient interest, I will post more. 

On March 12-13, my wife and I rode train 2 from Atlanta to Alexandria, probably to visit my family over the weekend near Baltimore. We often boarded and detrained at Alexandria because it was near I-495, and if we could persuade someone to pick us up when #2 arrived, we would be at the family homestead before Amtrak 172, the connection to New York, left Washington. The logic was similar for catching #2 for the return to Atlanta. The consist would always be sizable leaving Atlanta on a Friday night because the northbound train was running through from New Orleans. Our return consist on Sunday night was often smaller because the train terminated in Atlanta. 

I know the attachment is hard to read. It is a PDF, so to make it more legible, click on it, open it, and enlarge it. 

—Bill Schafer



<1976 - Mar. 12-13 SOU 2 Atlanta-Alexandria.pdf>

moderated Re: Southern Crescent Consist - rear of train, 4/01/78

Bill Schafer
 

Well, well, well, Mark,

How fortunate you shot the rear of the train at Peachtree Station, Atlanta. It prompts me to amend my earlier comments about the train based on your earlier photo of the front of the train.

* What I thought was a second Crescent-series car back in the train turns out to be a fourth sleeper. When I took a closer look at your photo of the head end, what I thought was a door on the side of the car (which is why I thought it was a lounge) was instead a whistle post. 

* The three coaches on the rear of no. 1 on April 1, 1978, may have all been in service. Displayed in the rear door of coach 835 is “0118”, which would be a designation of an extra coach. SOU was pretty good about identifying each car in a train with numbers indicating the current train they were operating in (unlike Amtrak today), and 0118 would be the designation of an extra coach, in service, in this particular train 1.  

* I guess I’ll have to take back what I said earlier about Amtrak cars operating in the Southern Crescent consist only on the days it went to/from New Orleans. Based on your photo, it now appears to me that Amtrak cars could (and did) operate in a Southern Crescent that terminated/originated in Atlanta. 

My memory too is getting rusty, and it’s data like your photos that can help keep me straight!

—Bill

On Jul 6, 2020, at 10:59, Mark Demaline via groups.io <conductor7@...> wrote:

Bill,
 In looking thru more of my SOU slides, I realized I DID have one of the rear of the 4/01/78 train, as I had arrived
at Peachtree in time to see him arrive and let the passengers off the train. I took some head-end photos, and then
stayed until the train departed, getting a photo of the last three cars -- which turned out to be that Amtrak car, plus
two more Southern cars. So here is one showing the rear of that 12 car train.  Hey, I'm getting old, and my memory
is a bit rusty!  ~ Mark D




-----Original Message-----

Sent: Sun, Jul 5, 2020 7:14 pm
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Southern Crescent Consists

Looked thru a few of my slides to locate one showing most or all of the consist, and here is one of  #1, at Duluth GA, on April 1, 1978.
There are 9 Southern cars, with what looks like at least 2 Amtrak cars on the rear.

I had also photographed #1 here two days before, on March 30th, and that train had a total of 9 cars, all of them Southern, no Amtrak.

And on one of my trips to the D.C area in -- I believe -- also 1978, there was a transit strike, and at Alexandria, a good number of people
boarded #2 there, for the trip into D.C.  One of the classiest "commuter" trains there was, to ride into work that day!

 ~ Mark







<SOU.wb #1.rear of tr.Peachtree Sta.Atlanta,04.01.78.Mark Demaine photo.c.2020.jpg>

moderated Re: Southern Crescent Consists

Bill Schafer
 

Jim:

The red and white “signs” were vinyl decals. Back in 1975 Graham Claytor, Southern’s president, realized that there were 17 signers of the Declaration of Independence from the states that were served by Southern Railway. Coincidentally, Southern stabled 17 E8s that powered the Southern Crescent. Rather than dandify any Southern locomotive with a red-white-blue paint scheme, like other railroads were doing, Mr. Claytor decided that SOU would celebrate the bicentennial by placing a sign on each side of each E8. There would be 17 different signs, one for each signer.

Attached is a list of the 17 signers and a Warren Calloway photo of SOU 6910 in Atlanta, which bore the sign of Carter Braxton, one of the seven signers from Virginia. I don’t have a list handy of which signers’ stickers were applied to which E8; maybe another member of this list can post that information.

Hope this helps.

—Bill Schafer




On Jul 6, 2020, at 10:58, Jim Younger via groups.io <frisco2011@...> wrote:

Hi guys

I hate to ask a SRR 101 question but what does the red/white sign on the Es say?  

I know it has something to do with southern signer(s) of the Declaration of Independence. Was there one or several?

Regards 

Jim Younger


On Jul 6, 2020, at 9:28 AM, Jason Greene <jason.p.greene@...> wrote:

Thanks Bill for sharing you consists, pictures, and knowledge. 

Jason Greene 

On Jul 6, 2020, at 8:35 AM, Bill Schafer <bill4501@...> wrote:

Jason:

Heavyweight cars on the Southern Crescent were not common but not unknown. More common were the ex-CofG lightweights off the Nancy Hanks, City of Miami, and/or Man O’War. You’d likely see the heavyweights in service during heavy travel periods - Thanksgiving, Christmas for example. Attached are images of 2nd 1 passing through Norcross, Ga., on Thanksgiving Day, 1976. On this day, the first section was the short section and ran on time, protecting the schedule; the connecting cars from New York must have been late arriving Washington, so the New Orleans train ran as the second section. On the rear is a modernized heavyweight, which I assumed was in regular service. 

As for the two heavyweights on the rear in my March consist, there are three possible explanations - they are in regular service, they are deadheading to Hayne, they are on there for a special party. I didn’t make a note at the time, so really don’t know the answer. For modelers, I guess the message is that it’s perfectly okay to have a modernized heavyweight coach in the consist of the Southern Crescent. It most likely would be found on the front or the rear of the consist and you can make up whatever reason you want for its presence. 

—Bill

<SOU 6903 on train 2nd 1 at Norcross Ga Nov 1976 GWS photo.tiff>
<SOU train 2nd 1 at Norcross Ga. 6902 rear unit - Thanksgiving Day, Nov 25, 1976 GWS photo.tiff>
<SOU 2nd No. 1 at Norcross Ga. Thanksgiving Day Nov 1976 GWS photo.tiff>






On Jul 5, 2020, at 19:24, Jason Greene <jason.p.greene@...> wrote:

Were the heavyweight coaches dead head or active? How common would they be on the Crescent?

Jason Greene 

On Jul 5, 2020, at 5:17 PM, Bill Schafer <bill4501@...> wrote:

Because there has been some recent interest in actual consists of the Southern Crescent in its glory days (1972-1979), I have consulted some of my old pocket notebooks and transcribed the consists of all the trains I rode in 1976. Turns out I made at least 30 trips on trains 1-2 that year, mostly on business. Attached is one of those consists. If there is sufficient interest, I will post more. 

On March 12-13, my wife and I rode train 2 from Atlanta to Alexandria, probably to visit my family over the weekend near Baltimore. We often boarded and detrained at Alexandria because it was near I-495, and if we could persuade someone to pick us up when #2 arrived, we would be at the family homestead before Amtrak 172, the connection to New York, left Washington. The logic was similar for catching #2 for the return to Atlanta. The consist would always be sizable leaving Atlanta on a Friday night because the northbound train was running through from New Orleans. Our return consist on Sunday night was often smaller because the train terminated in Atlanta. 

I know the attachment is hard to read. It is a PDF, so to make it more legible, click on it, open it, and enlarge it. 

—Bill Schafer



<1976 - Mar. 12-13 SOU 2 Atlanta-Alexandria.pdf>


moderated Re: Southern Crescent Consist - rear of train, 4/01/78

Mark Demaline
 

Kind Thanks, Bill !   Will add that to my notes. ~ Mark



-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Schafer <bill4501@...>

Well, well, well, Mark,

How fortunate you shot the rear of the train at Peachtree Station, Atlanta. It prompts me to amend my earlier comments about the train based on your earlier photo of the front of the train.

* What I thought was a second Crescent-series car back in the train turns out to be a fourth sleeper. When I took a closer look at your photo of the head end, what I thought was a door on the side of the car (which is why I thought it was a lounge) was instead a whistle post. 

* The three coaches on the rear of no. 1 on April 1, 1978, may have all been in service. Displayed in the rear door of coach 835 is “0118”, which would be a designation of an extra coach. SOU was pretty good about identifying each car in a train with numbers indicating the current train they were operating in (unlike Amtrak today), and 0118 would be the designation of an extra coach, in service, in this particular train 1.  

* I guess I’ll have to take back what I said earlier about Amtrak cars operating in the Southern Crescent consist only on the days it went to/from New Orleans. Based on your photo, it now appears to me that Amtrak cars could (and did) operate in a Southern Crescent that terminated/originated in Atlanta. 

My memory too is getting rusty, and it’s data like your photos that can help keep me straight!

—Bill

On Jul 6, 2020, at 10:59, Mark Demaline via groups.io <conductor7@...> wrote:

Bill,
 In looking thru more of my SOU slides, I realized I DID have one of the rear of the 4/01/78 train, as I had arrived
at Peachtree in time to see him arrive and let the passengers off the train. I took some head-end photos, and then
stayed until the train departed, getting a photo of the last three cars -- which turned out to be that Amtrak car, plus
two more Southern cars. So here is one showing the rear of that 12 car train.  Hey, I'm getting old, and my memory
is a bit rusty!  ~ Mark D




-----Original Message-----

Sent: Sun, Jul 5, 2020 7:14 pm
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Southern Crescent Consists

Looked thru a few of my slides to locate one showing most or all of the consist, and here is one of  #1, at Duluth GA, on April 1, 1978.
There are 9 Southern cars, with what looks like at least 2 Amtrak cars on the rear.

I had also photographed #1 here two days before, on March 30th, and that train had a total of 9 cars, all of them Southern, no Amtrak.

And on one of my trips to the D.C area in -- I believe -- also 1978, there was a transit strike, and at Alexandria, a good number of people
boarded #2 there, for the trip into D.C.  One of the classiest "commuter" trains there was, to ride into work that day!

 ~ Mark








<SOU.wb #1.rear of tr.Peachtree Sta.Atlanta,04.01.78.Mark Demaine photo.c.2020.jpg>

moderated Re: Southern Crescent Consists

Robert Graham
 

It was SOU's USA Declaration of Independence celebration. The SOU applied a decal for each Southern colony's signers of the Declaration of Independence. SOU had 17 E8A at that time, so worked out great. Each was different. Attached is a photo of one made from the flanks of SOU FP7 6141, which was also applied to E8 6911, both locomotives named for NC signer John Penn. The Bicentennial decals were removed after 1976. Unrelated to the E8 application, SOU also applied the names of the 2 North Carolina signers of the Declaration of Independence to the flanks of 2 FP7, 6133 & 6141 selected to be painted back into sylvan green in late 1975 for service on the "Skyland Special", a regularly scheduled seasonal excursion train run Asheville-Old Fort NC through the loops in the Blue Ridge Mountains for 2 years as a condition of discontinuance of the tri-weekly Asheville Special trains #3 & 4 required by the NC Utilities Commission. Unfortunately, the "Skyland" did not pan out at the time and was discontinued, but the green FP7's were a hit and 3 more were subsequently done for special, inspection and excursion service.

Bob Graham 

-----------------------------------------

From: "Jim Younger via groups.io"
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io
Cc:
Sent: Monday July 6 2020 1:07:57PM
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Southern Crescent Consists

Hi guys

I hate to ask a SRR 101 question but what does the red/white sign on the Es say?  

I know it has something to do with southern signer(s) of the Declaration of Independence. Was there one or several?

Regards 

Jim Younger


On Jul 6, 2020, at 9:28 AM, Jason Greene <jason.p.greene@...> wrote:

Thanks Bill for sharing you consists, pictures, and knowledge. 

Jason Greene 

On Jul 6, 2020, at 8:35 AM, Bill Schafer <bill4501@...> wrote:

Jason:

Heavyweight cars on the Southern Crescent were not common but not unknown. More common were the ex-CofG lightweights off the Nancy Hanks, City of Miami, and/or Man O’War. You’d likely see the heavyweights in service during heavy travel periods - Thanksgiving, Christmas for example. Attached are images of 2nd 1 passing through Norcross, Ga., on Thanksgiving Day, 1976. On this day, the first section was the short section and ran on time, protecting the schedule; the connecting cars from New York must have been late arriving Washington, so the New Orleans train ran as the second section. On the rear is a modernized heavyweight, which I assumed was in regular service. 

As for the two heavyweights on the rear in my March consist, there are three possible explanations - they are in regular service, they are deadheading to Hayne, they are on there for a special party. I didn’t make a note at the time, so really don’t know the answer. For modelers, I guess the message is that it’s perfectly okay to have a modernized heavyweight coach in the consist of the Southern Crescent. It most likely would be found on the front or the rear of the consist and you can make up whatever reason you want for its presence. 

—Bill

<SOU 6903 on train 2nd 1 at Norcross Ga Nov 1976 GWS photo.tiff>
<SOU train 2nd 1 at Norcross Ga. 6902 rear unit - Thanksgiving Day, Nov 25, 1976 GWS photo.tiff>
<SOU 2nd No. 1 at Norcross Ga. Thanksgiving Day Nov 1976 GWS photo.tiff>






On Jul 5, 2020, at 19:24, Jason Greene <jason.p.greene@...> wrote:

Were the heavyweight coaches dead head or active? How common would they be on the Crescent?

Jason Greene 

On Jul 5, 2020, at 5:17 PM, Bill Schafer <bill4501@...> wrote:

Because there has been some recent interest in actual consists of the Southern Crescent in its glory days (1972-1979), I have consulted some of my old pocket notebooks and transcribed the consists of all the trains I rode in 1976. Turns out I made at least 30 trips on trains 1-2 that year, mostly on business. Attached is one of those consists. If there is sufficient interest, I will post more. 

On March 12-13, my wife and I rode train 2 from Atlanta to Alexandria, probably to visit my family over the weekend near Baltimore. We often boarded and detrained at Alexandria because it was near I-495, and if we could persuade someone to pick us up when #2 arrived, we would be at the family homestead before Amtrak 172, the connection to New York, left Washington. The logic was similar for catching #2 for the return to Atlanta. The consist would always be sizable leaving Atlanta on a Friday night because the northbound train was running through from New Orleans. Our return consist on Sunday night was often smaller because the train terminated in Atlanta. 

I know the attachment is hard to read. It is a PDF, so to make it more legible, click on it, open it, and enlarge it. 

—Bill Schafer



<1976 - Mar. 12-13 SOU 2 Atlanta-Alexandria.pdf>

moderated Re: Southern Crescent Consists

Byron Osborn
 

Thanks to all who have asked questions and provided answers for this topic.  This has been a great help to me.

moderated White Number Boards

Michael Shirey
 

 As I am adding DCC to a new Athearn GP50 I just revived. I notice something strange. The loco I am working with has a white number board #7010 and apone further research. I notice that the Southern 7003-7016 are the only GP50'S to have white number boards. All others in the fleet are all black. Can some one enplane why this is? Not trying to be a rivet counter but I find it interesting..

moderated Re: White Number Boards

Sam Smith
 

The white number boards was still an indicator of loco-trol master units back in those days. Loco-trol was the name for the remotely operated Locomotives in mid-train helper service.

Samuel Smith


On Thu, Jul 9, 2020 at 8:29 AM, Michael Shirey
<pcrrhs6561@...> wrote:
 As I am adding DCC to a new Athearn GP50 I just revived. I notice something strange. The loco I am working with has a white number board #7010 and apone further research. I notice that the Southern 7003-7016 are the only GP50'S to have white number boards. All others in the fleet are all black. Can some one enplane why this is? Not trying to be a rivet counter but I find it interesting..

moderated Re: White Number Boards

James
 

Southern applied white number boards to locomotives that were equipped with Locotrol.  The locomotives could be used as master or slave units on those trains that had mid train helpers- as they were called then or DPU’s is the term now.

On Jul 9, 2020, at 08:29, Michael Shirey <pcrrhs6561@...> wrote:

 As I am adding DCC to a new Athearn GP50 I just revived. I notice something strange. The loco I am working with has a white number board #7010 and apone further research. I notice that the Southern 7003-7016 are the only GP50'S to have white number boards. All others in the fleet are all black. Can some one enplane why this is? Not trying to be a rivet counter but I find it interesting..

James Wall
Rural Hall, NC



moderated Re: White Number Boards

Tim
 

The units with white number boards were set up as controlling units. The mid-train locomotives were connected to a radio control car (most looked like boxcars, but only end doors, no side doors). The radio control cars had MU connections to control the locomotives and any locomotives could be used.

I can remember train 169 coming into Charlotte with a fairly short train from Linwood, and all the locomotives and the R/C car on the head end. They'd make a big pickup in Charlotte and put the R/C car and locos midtrain while they were doing it. They referred to this as, "radioing the train."

Tim Rumph
Lancaster, SC

moderated Re: White Number Boards

Tim
 

Here's a train doing something similar in Alexandria.

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=736111

Tim Rumph
Lancaster, SC