Date   
moderated Re: Peddler Cars

Robert Hanson
 

Mike - 

My description of the process was as I understand it.  The car could have been spotted next to the caboose, but the article in a very old Trains Magazine that I recalled had it next to the locomotive for easy spotting..  As to where the cab was spotted - anywhere out of the way of the switching moves, I suppose.

Short answer - I don't know that there was any set location to leave the caboose while switching.

Bob Hanson


-----Original Message-----
From: mike turner <yardcoolie1968@...>
To: main <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Sent: Tue, Oct 16, 2018 10:11 pm
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Peddler Cars

Ok, going for a second dumb question of the day:

if the peddler car immediately followed the engine and was dropped at
the depot, was the caboose spotted anywhere in particular? A slight
familiarity with another rr's practice prompted this question.

Thx.

Mike Turner

MP-Z35




moderated Re: Peddler Cars

Robert Hanson
 

Ike - 

I cannot address the "Peddler" tariff.  Never seen one.  LCL traffic was frequently covered in separate tariffs from carload traffic.

"Peddler" cars and local freight trains were commonly used terms for these services.  Not necessarily the formal terms.

I'm working from information acquired by reading, not experience, as LCL business was all but gone by the time I went to work in 1970.  A few vestiges remained, as Bill said earlier, but the service was essentially gone by this time.

Bob


-----Original Message-----
From: George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...>
To: main <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Sent: Tue, Oct 16, 2018 10:32 pm
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Peddler Cars

These explanations about Peddler cars make sense, except, why would they have a tariff filed for LCL traffic that already had its own waybills? If the car was operated by the Southern, obviously it was, it would not need to be covered with another freight tariff?

And…references to multi stop package cars do not use the term “peddler”.

It will be a bit of a zoo with everything going on but I will see if I can locate the “Peddler” tariff when we unpack at Chattanooga this weekend. It might explain itself. Everyone is welcome to come and help! Several people are driving up from Atlanta Friday and/or Saturday.

Ike


On Oct 16, 2018, at 9:28 PM, Robert Hanson via Groups.Io <RHanson669@...> wrote:

Ike - 

Unless I'm mistaken, a peddler car is a car loaded with LCL freight for various points along a run.  As I understand it, these cars were usually placed right behind the locomotive and were set off on the house track of a depot for unloading by the agent/clerk/freighthouse porter while the train crew switched carload freight at local industries.

When the switching was done, the crew re-assembled their train, with the peddler car tucked in behind the locomotive, and they moved on to the next stop where the procedure was repeated.

That's how I understand the procedure, but if anyone has additional information, I'm open to correction.

Bob Hanson



-----Original Message-----
From: George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...>
To: main <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Sent: Tue, Oct 16, 2018 9:17 pm
Subject: [SouthernRailway] Peddler Cars

There was another very obscure "local" freight service that I have only seen in the Southern's tariff. Assuming the name describes the service "Peddler Cars" were (I assume) cars that were set out along the railroad to sell whatever was in them, the 1920s version of a "truckload sale"? The only example I can think of would be something like cast iron stoves. Sell some, then move to the next town and sell some more?

Is anyone familiar with the term or know of any SR examples?

Ike

moderated Re: Peddler Cars

C J Wyatt
 

Another term was "trap car". Apparently it was a car loaded at a manufacturer or warehouse and sent to the transfer or freight house for further forwarding of the LCL shipments.

I am attaching an interesting, one page, clinic handout which I found online.

Jack
,


From: Robert Hanson via Groups.Io <RHanson669@...>
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2018 9:15 AM
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Peddler Cars

Ike - 

I cannot address the "Peddler" tariff.  Never seen one.  LCL traffic was frequently covered in separate tariffs from carload traffic.

"Peddler" cars and local freight trains were commonly used terms for these services.  Not necessarily the formal terms.

I'm working from information acquired by reading, not experience, as LCL business was all but gone by the time I went to work in 1970.  A few vestiges remained, as Bill said earlier, but the service was essentially gone by this time.

Bob


-----Original Message-----
From: George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...>
To: main <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Sent: Tue, Oct 16, 2018 10:32 pm
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Peddler Cars

These explanations about Peddler cars make sense, except, why would they have a tariff filed for LCL traffic that already had its own waybills? If the car was operated by the Southern, obviously it was, it would not need to be covered with another freight tariff?

And…references to multi stop package cars do not use the term “peddler”.

It will be a bit of a zoo with everything going on but I will see if I can locate the “Peddler” tariff when we unpack at Chattanooga this weekend. It might explain itself. Everyone is welcome to come and help! Several people are driving up from Atlanta Friday and/or Saturday.

Ike


On Oct 16, 2018, at 9:28 PM, Robert Hanson via Groups.Io <RHanson669@...> wrote:

Ike - 

Unless I'm mistaken, a peddler car is a car loaded with LCL freight for various points along a run.  As I understand it, these cars were usually placed right behind the locomotive and were set off on the house track of a depot for unloading by the agent/clerk/freighthouse porter while the train crew switched carload freight at local industries.

When the switching was done, the crew re-assembled their train, with the peddler car tucked in behind the locomotive, and they moved on to the next stop where the procedure was repeated.

That's how I understand the procedure, but if anyone has additional information, I'm open to correction.

Bob Hanson



-----Original Message-----
From: George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...>
To: main <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Sent: Tue, Oct 16, 2018 9:17 pm
Subject: [SouthernRailway] Peddler Cars

There was another very obscure "local" freight service that I have only seen in the Southern's tariff. Assuming the name describes the service "Peddler Cars" were (I assume) cars that were set out along the railroad to sell whatever was in them, the 1920s version of a "truckload sale"? The only example I can think of would be something like cast iron stoves. Sell some, then move to the next town and sell some more?

Is anyone familiar with the term or know of any SR examples?

Ike



moderated Re: Peddler Cars

sgwarner88@...
 

From my knowledge of the use of the term since the 60's, Peddler, Way Freight, of Local all meant the same thing.  The train carried a LCL car (boxcar?) that they spotted at the depot or house track and waited for someone to unload or load it.  I have seen Peddler used, but in the same context.

moderated Re: Southern Railway Presidents' File Finding Aid

D. Scott Chatfield
 

Wish I could join y'all this weekend but we have a bunch of friends coming from out of town for an operations weekend.  I get play asshole dispatcher (I know, redundant...)


Scott Chatfield

moderated Southern Railway Presidents' File Finding Aid

George Eichelberger
 

All: My apologies! Please disregard the first posting on this..... The attachment included a reference to an organization I never want to see or hear about again. Here is a "clean" version.

To get ready to move the SRHA archives Presidents' files onto the shelves this weekend, and to familiarize people with the kinds of material
they contain, here is one part of 1967-1969 finding aid from Graham Claytor's administation, some of the topics may be familiar.

Without the finding aids, the files would be simply a huge pile of paper. Assembling cleaning them up and getting everything into file folders and archives boxes was the work of "our" archivist Salley Loy. Her work, partially funded by a grant from Norfolk Southern, is one of the most significant collections in the SRHA archives. As soon as resources permit, the Presidents' files and Ben Robert photo prints finding aids will be put on the SRHA web site.

The file count in the attached example is up to 11,579 with more Claytor and Harold Hall indexes not shown. If we have enough help tomorrow and Saturday, all will be out of packing boxes and accessible for the first time in several years.

Ike
_._,_._,_

moderated Re: Southern Railway Presidents' File Finding Aid

Jim Thurston
 

Ike:

Both Claytor files are corrupted for me (crazy bad formatting)

Jim T


From: "Ike Eichelberger" <geichelberger@...>
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io
Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2018 3:15:35 PM
Subject: [SouthernRailway] Southern Railway Presidents' File Finding Aid

All: My apologies! Please disregard the first posting on this..... The attachment included a reference to an organization I never want to see or hear about again. Here is a "clean" version.

To get ready to move the SRHA archives Presidents' files onto the shelves this weekend, and to familiarize people with the kinds of material
they contain, here is one part of 1967-1969 finding aid from Graham Claytor's administation, some of the topics may be familiar.

Without the finding aids, the files would be simply a huge pile of paper. Assembling cleaning them up and getting everything into file folders and archives boxes was the work of "our" archivist Salley Loy. Her work, partially funded by a grant from Norfolk Southern, is one of the most significant collections in the SRHA archives. As soon as resources permit, the Presidents' files and Ben Robert photo prints finding aids will be put on the SRHA web site.

The file count in the attached example is up to 11,579 with more Claytor and Harold Hall indexes not shown. If we have enough help tomorrow and Saturday, all will be out of packing boxes and accessible for the first time in several years.

Ike

moderated Condensed List and Description of Locomotives

David Payne
 



Does anyone have a copy of the subject list dated January 1, 1967 (on or about)?  If so, would you let me know if all nine of the Central of Georgia F3 locomotives (901 - 909) are listed.
Thank you.
David Payne


moderated Re: Condensed List and Description of Locomotives

Robert Graham
 

David

I have a SOU form 1014 that I believe is a 1967 copy; it DOES NOT have an effective date (olive green cover, dark green tape binding) but I believe it to be a 1967 edition, as it does not have the SD45's listed, but does have the 1965 SD35's and still has the E6A's listed, which were T/I to EMD on SD45's in 1967. It shows CofG F3A listed as 0901-0909 listed as on the roster. The next newest edition I have is May 6 2970 and the CofG F3A are not listed.

Best I can do.

Bob Graham


---- "David Payne via Groups.Io" <davidcofga=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

 
 
Does anyone have a copy of the subject list dated January 1, 1967 (on or about)?  If so, would you let me know if all nine of the Central of Georgia F3 locomotives (901 - 909) are listed.
Thank you.
David Payne
 
 


moderated Southern F3 Air Tank Dimensions and Lettering Dimensions

David Friedlander
 

All,

I'm currently trying to figure out three things for Southern (Phase 3) F3's that had the Rooftop Tanks:
1. Does anyone have photos or drawings of the roofs to determine where piping for the tanks should be routed? Don't see anything really good in my books, though I found this really nice G-scale build: http://dieseldetailer.proboards.com/thread/15115/another-southern-f3a

2. Does anyone know the actual dimensions for the tanks?  I know they're not the same as the E8.

3. I noticed the southernmodeler.info site is gone.  Do the lettering diagrams (dimensions, etc.) for the yellow lettering on the green units exist online?


Thanks,
David Friedlander

moderated Re: Southern F3 Air Tank Dimensions and Lettering Dimensions

George Eichelberger
 

Southern drawing DL-3304 shows the aftercooler piping for “Freight Units”. I will see if there is a digital version of the air tanks drawing tomorrow. If not, I expect there is a hard copy of the drawing in the archives at TVRM.

Ike

PS The Friday and Saturday work session got all of the Presidents’, Central of Georgia Executive Dept and ICC Field Notes unpacked and on the reinstalled shelves. The next formal work session is not until November (dates are on the SRHA.net web site) but we will be there before the planned session. If anyone wants to see the archives after next weekend, send a note to archives@....

moderated Re: Southern F3 Air Tank Dimensions and Lettering Dimensions

David Friedlander
 

Ike,

Wish I had that diagram when I did my F7 freight units.  Maybe I'll go back and redo the piping I did to make them more realistic.

Wish the archive was closer, so I could volunteer there...it doesn't help that I recently moved even further away up to NYC.

David Friedlander


On Sun, Oct 21, 2018 at 11:58 PM George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:
Southern drawing DL-3304 shows the aftercooler piping for “Freight Units”. I will see if there is a digital version of the air tanks drawing tomorrow. If not, I expect there is a hard copy of the drawing in the archives at TVRM.

Ike

PS The Friday and Saturday work session got all of the Presidents’, Central of Georgia Executive Dept and ICC Field Notes unpacked and on the reinstalled shelves. The next formal work session is not until November (dates are on the SRHA.net web site) but we will be there before the planned session. If anyone wants to see the archives after next weekend, send a note to archives@....

moderated Re: Southern F3 Air Tank Dimensions and Lettering Dimensions

George Eichelberger
 

David:

One of the reasons we established “ModelingTheSouthern@groups.io” (a sub-group of SouthernRailway@groups.io) is to create a “place” where we can focus on accurate SR modeling information AND extend access to the archives for folks that cannot get to Chattanooga easily. I’m not certain, but I think people have to subscribe to “ModelingTheSouthern” before they get postings. With the archives work of the last couple of weeks, we have not done much with the modeling group but that needs to be corrected.

One thing we would like to include is simply an album of Southern and CofG models that people have done. Just seeing what other have done/are working on is a great “starter” for new projects. If anyone would like to help moderate the group, please let me know and we’ll set it up.

It is not possible to respond to individual data requests from everyone (SRHA members will have priority) but locating and posting drawings for projects we are seeing will be easier to do.

I’ve attached an example of a SR car I wanted to model the first time I saw it, a 50’ container flat. The cars were built to load bagged Kaolin to the Port of Savannah without unloading the 20’ containers. They replaced using 89’ ft TTX cars (imagine switching those around in a middle Georgia Kaolin plant!)

We have all of the drawings the Southern used to modify standard 50’ flats for the service.

Ike
 

On Oct 22, 2018, at 12:18 AM, davidfriedlandernc <davidjfriedlander@...> wrote:

Ike,

Wish I had that diagram when I did my F7 freight units.  Maybe I'll go back and redo the piping I did to make them more realistic.

Wish the archive was closer, so I could volunteer there...it doesn't help that I recently moved even further away up to NYC.

David Friedlander


On Sun, Oct 21, 2018 at 11:58 PM George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:
Southern drawing DL-3304 shows the aftercooler piping for “Freight Units”. I will see if there is a digital version of the air tanks drawing tomorrow. If not, I expect there is a hard copy of the drawing in the archives at TVRM.

Ike

PS The Friday and Saturday work session got all of the Presidents’, Central of Georgia Executive Dept and ICC Field Notes unpacked and on the reinstalled shelves. The next formal work session is not until November (dates are on the SRHA.net web site) but we will be there before the planned session. If anyone wants to see the archives after next weekend, send a note to archives@....



<DL-3304 aftercooler pipe arrt.jpeg><DL-3304 aftercooler pipe arrt.jpeg>

moderated Re: Southern F3 Air Tank Dimensions and Lettering Dimensions

David Friedlander
 

All,

I will most definitely join the modeling list once established.  I'd help moderate it too if desired.

In regards to my Question #1 and #2:
I looked through my digital library and found Bob Harpe's build for these.  I feel very blessed to have a PDF of it, as it answers my questions for #1 and #2. Thank you Bob for the detailed build and Allen Cain for producing the PDF.  Though I did notice that a few of the pictures I'm looking at, it looks like 4136, 4140, and 4143 match Bob's roof piping, but every other photo I see seems to show the tanks on the fireman side connected together rather than doing into the roof.  Thoughts?

Following up to Question #3:
Looking closely... the Yellow lettering on the Green Tuxedo locomotives be the same font as the Gold lettering on the Black Tuxedo locomotives...just a lot smaller.  Do others agree?

If the sizing is the same as the FT diagram I have, the yellow SOUTHERN should be 7" tall and the numbers should be 5.5" tall.  Do folks agree with that?

Additional question:
Looks like the SOUTHERN lettering is DL-6015 and the numbers are DL-3039.   The CNO&TP units had lettering near the rear.  Does anyone have a copy of DL-6016 for the CNO&TP lettering?  I'm willing to draw the letters and provide them to Ike to put on the Google Drive, or groups.io, or wherever is most convenient for all to use for their modeling.

Thanks for your time,
David Friedlander


On Sun, Oct 21, 2018 at 11:43 PM davidfriedlandernc <davidjfriedlander@...> wrote:
All,

I'm currently trying to figure out three things for Southern (Phase 3) F3's that had the Rooftop Tanks:
1. Does anyone have photos or drawings of the roofs to determine where piping for the tanks should be routed? Don't see anything really good in my books, though I found this really nice G-scale build: http://dieseldetailer.proboards.com/thread/15115/another-southern-f3a

2. Does anyone know the actual dimensions for the tanks?  I know they're not the same as the E8.

3. I noticed the southernmodeler.info site is gone.  Do the lettering diagrams (dimensions, etc.) for the yellow lettering on the green units exist online?


Thanks,
David Friedlander

moderated 3rd Rail/Sunset Models making SOU Dual-Service F3's

David Friedlander
 

All,

Recent news...Sunset Models/3rd Rail is now going to attempt do the dual service (steam generator + rooftop air tanks) F3's in both green and black. These are O Scale models and come in both 3R (TMCC control), and 2R (DCC w/ QSI Titan). For more info and your chance to reserve that or other roads: http://www.3rdrail.com/reservation.html#F3

I think O Scalers are really lucky that this company is willing to do anything in Southern with road-specific detailing these days. Hopefully there is enough of us interested that can reserve enough units to get these produced in Southern.

As for other Southern offerings...they also have reservations open for Southern E6's and E7's in both green and black.  SD40-2 reservations are not cancelled, just put on the back burner to simmer around for enough orders to build up. Of course one reservation option is in Southern.

I recently moved to NY, so if anyone is in or near the city and doing any sort of modeling (Southern or not), it would be cool to visit. All the best.

David Friedlander
New York, NY

moderated Walthers F7's

RamblingReck
 

 I have been looking at purchasing the Walthers F7 models.  The numbers offered, though, do not seem to match the configuration very well.  The models have dynamic brakes and steam generators.  My research shows that A-unit 6717 never had a steam generator and A-unit #6714 never had dynamic brakes.  A-unit #6119 gad a steam generator added in 3/52 and dynamics brakes added in 11/55.  However, roof tanks were also added, probably at the same time as the dynamic brakes.  B-unit #6178 is at least plausable in that it came from the factory equipped with a steam generator with dynamic brakes added in 1954.  The truth is that only a handful of F7 A-units (maybe 5) ever had steam generators.

Am I wrong or am I being too picky.

--
John Ryan

moderated Re: Walthers F7's

Chris Smith
 

Remember that most people in China have never seen an American locomotive. Also I have seen manufacturers use the same body shell for different paint schemes,not really researching what is correct for that road.


On Friday, October 26, 2018, RamblingReck <ramblingreck@...> wrote:
 I have been looking at purchasing the Walthers F7 models.  The numbers offered, though, do not seem to match the configuration very well.  The models have dynamic brakes and steam generators.  My research shows that A-unit 6717 never had a steam generator and A-unit #6714 never had dynamic brakes.  A-unit #6119 gad a steam generator added in 3/52 and dynamics brakes added in 11/55.  However, roof tanks were also added, probably at the same time as the dynamic brakes.  B-unit #6178 is at least plausable in that it came from the factory equipped with a steam generator with dynamic brakes added in 1954.  The truth is that only a handful of F7 A-units (maybe 5) ever had steam generators.

Am I wrong or am I being too picky.

--
John Ryan

moderated Re: Walthers F7's

RamblingReck
 

What's is really interesting is that none of the other Walthers F7's that I saw had steam generators.  If they had just used dynamic brakes there would have been quite a few suitable matches.  I presume that the SRHA wasn't involved.
--
John Ryan

moderated Re: Walthers F7's

rwbrv4
 

Well the problem is that the SRHA has told manufacturers what we have and how we can help, and few take advantage of it .  There's been personal visits to most of the majors literally showing drawings etc.  Sadly some just persist in just throwing a paint job on a shell and expect us to buy it.
Rick Bell




On Sunday, October 28, 2018 RamblingReck <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io> wrote:

What's is really interesting is that none of the other Walthers F7's that I saw had steam generators.  If they had just used dynamic brakes there would have been quite a few suitable matches.  I presume that the SRHA wasn't involved.
--
John Ryan

moderated Re: Walthers F7's

George Eichelberger
 

John:

Working with Walthers, or other manufacturers is something we always try to do but personnel changes can break our contacts. We did receive a request from Walthers about the F-7s quite some time ago but I do not know if our drawings made it into their production plans.

I think it is correct to say SRHA has provided data for every accurate SR model since before the Model Power E units were produced. We never charge manufacturers for what we provide because we want to contribute to having accurate Southern prototypes available to modelers. All of the Jim King/Gary Wright kits made extensive use of SRHA drawings; more than 50 for the SR bay window cab, I’ve lost track of how many Exact Rail used for their fabulous “Big Johns”. Their new cast steel bulkhead flats are likely using the bulkhead drawings we sent to them with a reminder that they would go perfectly with the flats they already sold.

Sometimes our input effects what they produce. When we were asked to review the artwork for N scale FTs (from SRHA drawings), we reminded the manufacturer that they needed to include road numbers on the nose of the units. (They were on the FTs as delivered, never on passenger units and eliminated when D.W. Brosnan thought they cost too much to maintain.) It turned out Santa Fe units also had them so they were added to the artwork for both roads.

We always respond to Hubert Mask, of Mask Island decals as quickly as possible because he makes an effort to  make items available ASAP. I owe him a stencil drawing for the sliding door brick cars today. As soon as Arrowhead announced their Southern (ex NS) Bethehem 3-bay hoppers and undec kits we sent the drawings for the NS cars to Hubert, he had the decals available within a week! 

When the manufacturers invest their time, money and effort in accurate models, it is up to us modelers to support their work by buying those items. If anyone has not seen the Arrowhead hopper, check out their website (then order a few!) We are working with Blain Hadfield of Arrowhead on a CofG/Southern prototype that will fill a niche for anyone modeling those roads plus several others.

When we work with someone on future products, we can never really be certain the model will be produced. They have to allocate their resources to items they think will sell. The larger the manufacturer, like Walthers or Athern, the more “competition” we have for them to produce Southeastern prototype modelers. We can overcome that only by buy what they offer….

Ike


On Oct 28, 2018, at 10:25 AM, RamblingReck <ramblingreck@...> wrote:

What's is really interesting is that none of the other Walthers F7's that I saw had steam generators.  If they had just used dynamic brakes there would have been quite a few suitable matches.  I presume that the SRHA wasn't involved.
--
John Ryan