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locked Southern SD-45's


James
 

in the past months I have studying pictures of Southern SD-45 fleet.  I have found one item very curious and can find no information about it.
The item in question is an extension of the battery box on the short hood end conductors side as seen below.



This extension appears on most SD-45's from 3106 thru 3160 or so.  Can anyone explain what this was used for,  also it appears on the SD35's as well.
I am posing this question on several lists so please forgive in duplication.

Thanks in advance,
James Wall
Rural Hall, NC


Jason Greene
 

Is that a town whistle on either side of the short hood? I have never noticed town whistles on Southern equipment. 

Jason Greene 

On Nov 17, 2019, at 10:56 AM, James <nsc39dash8@...> wrote:

in the past months I have studying pictures of Southern SD-45 fleet.  I have found one item very curious and can find no information about it.
The item in question is an extension of the battery box on the short hood end conductors side as seen below.

<SOU3121.1.png>


This extension appears on most SD-45's from 3106 thru 3160 or so.  Can anyone explain what this was used for,  also it appears on the SD35's as well.
I am posing this question on several lists so please forgive in duplication.

Thanks in advance,
James Wall
Rural Hall, NC


Charles Powell
 

Jason,
What you are seeing is the white flag in the flag holder and a radio antenna on top of the hood directly behind the flag. Since 3121 is equipped with Loco Control radio equipment there are two antennas.

James
I think the extension was a box to put an extra knuckle.

Charlie   


C J Wyatt
 

My guess (strictly guess) is that the extension is housing the controls for the ATC equipment. Notice the pickup shoe on the truck.

Jack Wyatt


C J Wyatt
 

Extra knuckle might be a better explanation, but as noted, the unit is a radio train leader and the short hood is probably crammed with that equipment. The white number board indicates a leader for those of you who don't know.

Jack Wyatt

On Sunday, November 17, 2019, 01:23:53 PM EST, C J Wyatt <cjwyatt@...> wrote:


My guess (strictly guess) is that the extension is housing the controls for the ATC equipment. Notice the pickup shoe on the truck.

Jack Wyatt


D. Scott Chatfield
 

>I think the extension was a box to put an extra knuckle.

Perhaps, but it seems a little narrow and way too deep to hold a knuckle.  It would be very awkward trying to lift one out.

I think it holds ATS equipment.  Notice the hinges on the outer edge and how tightly the lid seats.  No evidence of being scraped while extracting a knuckle.

Perhaps the answer is in the archives.....

My $.02

Scott Chatfield


James
 

I appreciate all the answers so far and welcome more info on this item.   After looking at pictures after posting, I think the ATS equipment box is the answer.  On all SD35 and SD45’s I find this “box” on there is an ATS shoe on both sides of the truck in the short hood end.  Also I have not known Southern to carry spare knuckles was this a Southern practice?

On Nov 17, 2019, at 3:30 PM, D. Scott Chatfield <blindog@...> wrote:

>I think the extension was a box to put an extra knuckle.

Perhaps, but it seems a little narrow and way too deep to hold a knuckle.  It would be very awkward trying to lift one out.

I think it holds ATS equipment.  Notice the hinges on the outer edge and how tightly the lid seats.  No evidence of being scraped while extracting a knuckle.

Perhaps the answer is in the archives.....

My $.02

Scott Chatfield


James Wall
Rural Hall, NC




Robert Graham
 

The "box" observed in front of the fireman's side battery box on the short hood end of SOME SOU SD45's is the ATS control box. A comprehensive examination of SOU's entire SD45 roster concludes the "box" under query was ONLY present on SOU SD45 3105-3159, the 55 SD45 in the 1st order DELIVERED with ATS. SOU President W.G Claytor in June 1969 decided ALL new SOU locomotive deliveries would NOT be ordered with ATS, as an application to discontinue use of ATS had been made (and was ultimately approved) to discontinue use over the entire SR, except for lines over which passenger trains still operated. The cost of ATS equipment on new locomotives was substantial, and Mr. Claytor decided the risk of short term loss of equipment flexibility was more than offset by reduced new locomotive cost. Examination of SOU SD45's 3100-3104 (2nd), 3160-3169 delivered in 1970 shows the "box" not present. Additionally SD45 3120 (2nd), NOT equipped as a Locotrol master (a wreck replacement for SD45 3120 (1st) that WAS a Locotrol master) delivered in 1970 also did not have the box. Those SOU SD45 so equipped with the box retained said box until retired by NS, even though the ATS equipment had been removed. I will be glad to provide photographic evidence to support upon request. 

To answer the "spare knuckle" box question, SOU SD45 had no external provision for carrying spare knuckles. If they were carried, it was inside the hood or the cab. The N&W did utilize an exterior "basket" for spare knuckles, usually located on the long hood running board just ahead of the engineer's cab front. This practice carried over under NS, and some NS locomotives, including some classes of former SOU locomotives received this modification. These spare knuckle "baskets" have perforated sides and are clearly visible as such.


Bob Graham

-----------------------------------------

From: "James"
To: "main@southernrailway.groups.io"
Cc:
Sent: Sunday November 17 2019 3:36:08PM
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Southern SD-45's

I appreciate all the answers so far and welcome more info on this item.   After looking at pictures after posting, I think the ATS equipment box is the answer.  On all SD35 and SD45’s I find this “box” on there is an ATS shoe on both sides of the truck in the short hood end.  Also I have not known Southern to carry spare knuckles was this a Southern practice?

On Nov 17, 2019, at 3:30 PM, D. Scott Chatfield <blindog@...> wrote:

>I think the extension was a box to put an extra knuckle.

Perhaps, but it seems a little narrow and way too deep to hold a knuckle.  It would be very awkward trying to lift one out.

I think it holds ATS equipment.  Notice the hinges on the outer edge and how tightly the lid seats.  No evidence of being scraped while extracting a knuckle.

Perhaps the answer is in the archives.....

My $.02

Scott Chatfield


James Wall
Rural Hall, NC




James
 

Bob,

Thanks for the answer!  This was a hard one to track down with a lot of internet searches.  There are so few pictures that show the conductors side of the locomotive.  I first noticed it on a picture I had been shown in Spencer and this was the first time I really noticed it.  After that I started researching it and photos proved elusive at best.  I for one would like to see other photos of this and some really nice roof shots.

On Nov 17, 2019, at 4:43 PM, Robert Graham <rgraham2@...> wrote:

The "box" observed in front of the fireman's side battery box on the short hood end of SOME SOU SD45's is the ATS control box. A comprehensive examination of SOU's entire SD45 roster concludes the "box" under query was ONLY present on SOU SD45 3105-3159, the 55 SD45 in the 1st order DELIVERED with ATS. SOU President W.G Claytor in June 1969 decided ALL new SOU locomotive deliveries would NOT be ordered with ATS, as an application to discontinue use of ATS had been made (and was ultimately approved) to discontinue use over the entire SR, except for lines over which passenger trains still operated. The cost of ATS equipment on new locomotives was substantial, and Mr. Claytor decided the risk of short term loss of equipment flexibility was more than offset by reduced new locomotive cost. Examination of SOU SD45's 3100-3104 (2nd), 3160-3169 delivered in 1970 shows the "box" not present. Additionally SD45 3120 (2nd), NOT equipped as a Locotrol master (a wreck replacement for SD45 3120 (1st) that WAS a Locotrol master) delivered in 1970 also did not have the box. Those SOU SD45 so equipped with the box retained said box until retired by NS, even though the ATS equipment had been removed. I will be glad to provide photographic evidence to support upon request. 

To answer the "spare knuckle" box question, SOU SD45 had no external provision for carrying spare knuckles. If they were carried, it was inside the hood or the cab. The N&W did utilize an exterior "basket" for spare knuckles, usually located on the long hood running board just ahead of the engineer's cab front. This practice carried over under NS, and some NS locomotives, including some classes of former SOU locomotives received this modification. These spare knuckle "baskets" have perforated sides and are clearly visible as such.


Bob Graham

-----------------------------------------

From: "James"
To: "main@southernrailway.groups.io"
Cc:
Sent: Sunday November 17 2019 3:36:08PM
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Southern SD-45's

I appreciate all the answers so far and welcome more info on this item.   After looking at pictures after posting, I think the ATS equipment box is the answer.  On all SD35 and SD45’s I find this “box” on there is an ATS shoe on both sides of the truck in the short hood end.  Also I have not known Southern to carry spare knuckles was this a Southern practice?

On Nov 17, 2019, at 3:30 PM, D. Scott Chatfield <blindog@...> wrote:

>I think the extension was a box to put an extra knuckle.

Perhaps, but it seems a little narrow and way too deep to hold a knuckle.  It would be very awkward trying to lift one out.

I think it holds ATS equipment.  Notice the hinges on the outer edge and how tightly the lid seats.  No evidence of being scraped while extracting a knuckle.

Perhaps the answer is in the archives.....

My $.02

Scott Chatfield


James Wall
Rural Hall, NC





James Wall
Rural Hall, NC




Jason Greene
 

Looks like the flag is wrapped around the firecracker. Guess it’s all right time and right angle. 

Jason Greene 

On Nov 17, 2019, at 1:18 PM, Charles Powell <charlesspowell@...> wrote:

Jason,
What you are seeing is the white flag in the flag holder and a radio antenna on top of the hood directly behind the flag. Since 3121 is equipped with Loco Control radio equipment there are two antennas.

James
I think the extension was a box to put an extra knuckle.

Charlie