locked ODT and Pullman routes shorter than 450 miles


George Eichelberger
 

While looking for the letter from the Southern Railway President to other roads describing the air conditioning systems Southern used in its passenger cars for Ed Mims (not found yet), I came upon this July, 1945 notice from the SR Passenger Traffic Dept cancelling a number of Pullman “lines” per Office of Defense Transportation Order No. 53. Mid 1945 seems late in the war for such an order. I expect it was to prepare for the return of troops from the ETO and PTO. I assume many railroads were effected by the same order?

After the war, several state PUCs demanded the Southern reinstate passenger trains that had been removed by ODT order without PUC review. By 1946-47, with the decline in local passenger services, the Southern did not want to reinstate the trains but the PUC sometimes insisted so the railroad had to go through the entire process.

The passenger train material in the SRHA archives is extensive. Does anyone know if there are similar files at another historical group, archive or library? SRHA is contemplating producing a “Postwar Southern Railway Passenger Services and Equipment” book. If anyone has material on the subject, or would like to participate, please contact me off list.

Ike






Robert Hanson
 

As I understand the order, only Pullman cars were affected, not entire trains.

The trains continued to run, but without Pullman service.

And again, as I understand the order, the purpose was to free Pullman equipment for the transfer of troops from the European Theater of Operations to the Pacific Theater, as the Pacific was very much an active war zone in July of 1945.

That's my understanding.

If anyone has more information, I'd like to know.

Bob Hanson
Loganville, GA


-----Original Message-----
From: George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...>
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>; PassengerCarList@groups.io
Sent: Wed, Aug 19, 2020 9:29 am
Subject: [SouthernRailway] ODT and Pullman routes shorter than 450 miles

While looking for the letter from the Southern Railway President to other roads describing the air conditioning systems Southern used in its passenger cars for Ed Mims (not found yet), I came upon this July, 1945 notice from the SR Passenger Traffic Dept cancelling a number of Pullman “lines” per Office of Defense Transportation Order No. 53. Mid 1945 seems late in the war for such an order. I expect it was to prepare for the return of troops from the ETO and PTO. I assume many railroads were effected by the same order?

After the war, several state PUCs demanded the Southern reinstate passenger trains that had been removed by ODT order without PUC review. By 1946-47, with the decline in local passenger services, the Southern did not want to reinstate the trains but the PUC sometimes insisted so the railroad had to go through the entire process.

The passenger train material in the SRHA archives is extensive. Does anyone know if there are similar files at another historical group, archive or library? SRHA is contemplating producing a “Postwar Southern Railway Passenger Services and Equipment” book. If anyone has material on the subject, or would like to participate, please contact me off list.

Ike






C J Wyatt
 

Thanks Bob. That is my understanding, too. All part of planning the logistics for the invasion of Japan.  

Jack Wyatt

On Wednesday, August 19, 2020, 10:50:31 AM EDT, Robert Hanson via groups.io <rhanson669=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:





As I understand the order, only Pullman cars were affected, not entire trains.



The trains continued to run, but without Pullman service.




And again, as I understand the order, the purpose was to free Pullman equipment for the transfer of troops from the European Theater of Operations to the Pacific Theater, as the Pacific was very much an active war zone in July of 1945.




That's my understanding.




If anyone has more information, I'd like to know.




Bob Hanson

Loganville, GA



-----Original Message-----
From: George Eichelberger <geichelberger@bellsouth.net>
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>; PassengerCarList@groups.io
Sent: Wed, Aug 19, 2020 9:29 am
Subject: [SouthernRailway] ODT and Pullman routes shorter than 450 miles



While looking for the letter from the Southern Railway President to other roads describing the air conditioning systems Southern used in its passenger cars for Ed Mims (not found yet), I came upon this July, 1945 notice from the SR Passenger Traffic Dept cancelling a number of Pullman “lines” per Office of Defense Transportation Order No. 53. Mid 1945 seems late in the war for such an order. I expect it was to prepare for the return of troops from the ETO and PTO. I assume many railroads were effected by the same order?


After the war, several state PUCs demanded the Southern reinstate passenger trains that had been removed by ODT order without PUC review. By 1946-47, with the decline in local passenger services, the Southern did not want to reinstate the trains but the PUC sometimes insisted so the railroad had to go through the entire process.



The passenger train material in the SRHA archives is extensive. Does anyone know if there are similar files at another historical group, archive or library? SRHA is contemplating producing a “Postwar Southern Railway Passenger Services and Equipment” book. If anyone has material on the subject, or would like to participate, please contact me off list.



Ike


George Eichelberger
 

Bob:

You are correct, Order 53 was only for Pullman lines, multiple other ODT orders early in the War directed the Southern to discontinue entire passenger trains (I may have posted an example earlier).

I have never found a comprehensive list of ODT orders although each/many of the individual orders are in the SRHA archives. We need to confirm, but the Atlanta-Brunswick Pullman (Line 2614) is mentioned when the Southern was trying to discontinue that train so either the sleeper was never taken off (ODT orders could be contested) or it was restored after the ODT cancelled Order No 53. I cannot confirm but I have read that was the last heavyweight Pullman to operate in regular service. In the (large) file containing all of that train's discontinuance documentation, it appears an influential Judge liked to book space in the car to go to Brunswick. He, almost single handedly, kept the Southern from discontinuing the Pullman and the entire train.

Ike


On Aug 19, 2020, at 9:43 AM, Robert Hanson via groups.io <RHanson669@...> wrote:

As I understand the order, only Pullman cars were affected, not entire trains.

The trains continued to run, but without Pullman service.

And again, as I understand the order, the purpose was to free Pullman equipment for the transfer of troops from the European Theater of Operations to the Pacific Theater, as the Pacific was very much an active war zone in July of 1945.

That's my understanding.

If anyone has more information, I'd like to know.

Bob Hanson
Loganville, GA


-----Original Message-----
From: George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...>
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>; PassengerCarList@groups.io
Sent: Wed, Aug 19, 2020 9:29 am
Subject: [SouthernRailway] ODT and Pullman routes shorter than 450 miles

While looking for the letter from the Southern Railway President to other roads describing the air conditioning systems Southern used in its passenger cars for Ed Mims (not found yet), I came upon this July, 1945 notice from the SR Passenger Traffic Dept cancelling a number of Pullman “lines” per Office of Defense Transportation Order No. 53. Mid 1945 seems late in the war for such an order. I expect it was to prepare for the return of troops from the ETO and PTO. I assume many railroads were effected by the same order?

After the war, several state PUCs demanded the Southern reinstate passenger trains that had been removed by ODT order without PUC review. By 1946-47, with the decline in local passenger services, the Southern did not want to reinstate the trains but the PUC sometimes insisted so the railroad had to go through the entire process.

The passenger train material in the SRHA archives is extensive. Does anyone know if there are similar files at another historical group, archive or library? SRHA is contemplating producing a “Postwar Southern Railway Passenger Services and Equipment” book. If anyone has material on the subject, or would like to participate, please contact me off list.

Ike

<1945-7-7 Notice of disc Trs losing  Pullman services on les than 450 mile routes.jpeg>




<1945-7-7 Notice of disc Trs losing  Pullman services on les than 450 mile routes.jpeg>


Robert Hanson
 

Ike - 

The Atlanta-Brunswick Pullman was, indeed, the last regularly-scheduled heavyweight Pullman run in the US.  David Morgan rode it and wrote about the trip in an issue of Trains in 1965 or '66.

I don't know about the reasons for the train's continued operation, but the Pullman came off in 1966, not too long after DPM took his ride.

Bob 








-----Original Message-----
From: George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...>
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Sent: Wed, Aug 19, 2020 11:03 am
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] ODT and Pullman routes shorter than 450 miles

Bob:

You are correct, Order 53 was only for Pullman lines, multiple other ODT orders early in the War directed the Southern to discontinue entire passenger trains (I may have posted an example earlier).

I have never found a comprehensive list of ODT orders although each/many of the individual orders are in the SRHA archives. We need to confirm, but the Atlanta-Brunswick Pullman (Line 2614) is mentioned when the Southern was trying to discontinue that train so either the sleeper was never taken off (ODT orders could be contested) or it was restored after the ODT cancelled Order No 53. I cannot confirm but I have read that was the last heavyweight Pullman to operate in regular service. In the (large) file containing all of that train's discontinuance documentation, it appears an influential Judge liked to book space in the car to go to Brunswick. He, almost single handedly, kept the Southern from discontinuing the Pullman and the entire train.

Ike


On Aug 19, 2020, at 9:43 AM, Robert Hanson via groups.io <RHanson669@...> wrote:

As I understand the order, only Pullman cars were affected, not entire trains.

The trains continued to run, but without Pullman service.

And again, as I understand the order, the purpose was to free Pullman equipment for the transfer of troops from the European Theater of Operations to the Pacific Theater, as the Pacific was very much an active war zone in July of 1945.

That's my understanding.

If anyone has more information, I'd like to know.

Bob Hanson
Loganville, GA


-----Original Message-----
From: George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...>
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>; PassengerCarList@groups.io
Sent: Wed, Aug 19, 2020 9:29 am
Subject: [SouthernRailway] ODT and Pullman routes shorter than 450 miles

While looking for the letter from the Southern Railway President to other roads describing the air conditioning systems Southern used in its passenger cars for Ed Mims (not found yet), I came upon this July, 1945 notice from the SR Passenger Traffic Dept cancelling a number of Pullman “lines” per Office of Defense Transportation Order No. 53. Mid 1945 seems late in the war for such an order. I expect it was to prepare for the return of troops from the ETO and PTO. I assume many railroads were effected by the same order?

After the war, several state PUCs demanded the Southern reinstate passenger trains that had been removed by ODT order without PUC review. By 1946-47, with the decline in local passenger services, the Southern did not want to reinstate the trains but the PUC sometimes insisted so the railroad had to go through the entire process.

The passenger train material in the SRHA archives is extensive. Does anyone know if there are similar files at another historical group, archive or library? SRHA is contemplating producing a “Postwar Southern Railway Passenger Services and Equipment” book. If anyone has material on the subject, or would like to participate, please contact me off list.

Ike

<1945-7-7 Notice of disc Trs losing  Pullman services on les than 450 mile routes.jpeg>




<1945-7-7 Notice of disc Trs losing  Pullman services on les than 450 mile routes.jpeg>