locked St Charles Branch Coal Loader Info


Daniel Bourque
 

Hi Everyone,

 

I’ve been lurking on this list for a while, and I really appreciate how much incredibly knowledge resides here—thanks for sharing!

 

I’m hoping there might be a Southern coal fan on this list who can help me with a research project. I’m modeling the Southern’s St. Charles Branch in southwestern VA, and despite multiple years of research now, I’m still not sure when the various coal loaders were active on this line. I’m building a spreadsheet with info based on aerial photos, other photos, track charts, etc., and I’m hoping someone here might have a Coal & Coke Directory or two and be willing to share some info that would help refine the research. Specifically, I’d be interested in any amplifying info for the 1960-1982 timeframe. Specific areas of interest: Imperial, Benedict, Monarch, Kemmergem, Turners Siding, Mayflower, Bonny Blue, St. Charles, Valee (Virginia Lee), Penn Lee, Maness, Pocket, Southwest, Reeds Creek, Purcell, Calvin, Keokee and Crest.

 

I’d be willing to share my spreadsheet with all who are interested—you can contact me off-list at deltabourque@....

 

Thanks!

 

Dan Bourque

 


Paul Schmidt
 

I too would be interested in that information, Dan. Be glad to help you with compiling it as well.
--
Paul Schmidt
Sequim WA


D. Scott Chatfield
 

In the Archives we have a map printed by the Southern of active coal loadouts in October 1984.  Of course it includes the Southern and Interstate lines in southwest Virginia.  I took quick pics of the map last year at a work session to share with a friend who models the ex-Interstate lines in the NS era.  

I don't know if the archives have any earlier versions of that map, or if such exist.

I haven't uploaded anything to Groups.io file section, so I'll try to figure that out tonight.



Scott Chatfield


George Eichelberger
 

Here is one page from a report listing many/all(?) active coal mines on the Southern in 1974. It covers both the St. Charles line on the Appalachia Div. and the Interstate.

There are many files discussing coal in the SRHA archives. Some have been scanned but much more research is needed. One topic is the Southern's coal pier at Charleston. It loaded ship for domestic and international destinations as well a "bunker" coal for the ships. At one time, coal fired ships of all kind would dock at the pier for bunker coal as they left port. Most of the Charleston coal came from the Appalachia/St. Charles mines down through Asheville and Saluda.

Ike


Daniel Bourque
 

Ike,

 

Thank you for that list! It’ll definitely help narrow down a few of the loaders—now I need to figure out which coal companies sold to which other companies so I can match up tipples. Sometimes I feel like I’m in “National Treasure”. . . just one more clue. . .

 

Every clue counts, so thanks again! Cool info on the ships and Charleston, too.

 

Dan

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: George Eichelberger
Sent: Monday, December 21, 2020 6:14 PM
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] St Charles Branch Coal Loader Info

 

Here is one page from a report listing many/all(?) active coal mines on the Southern in 1974. It covers both the St. Charles line on the Appalachia Div. and the Interstate.

There are many files discussing coal in the SRHA archives. Some have been scanned but much more research is needed. One topic is the Southern's coal pier at Charleston. It loaded ship for domestic and international destinations as well a "bunker" coal for the ships. At one time, coal fired ships of all kind would dock at the pier for bunker coal as they left port. Most of the Charleston coal came from the Appalachia/St. Charles mines down through Asheville and Saluda.

Ike

 


George Eichelberger
 

Dan:

I don’t expect the Southern would know much about inter-company sales. There could be something on the waybills relating to that but they have not survived anywhere I have seen.

Ike

PS!!! Does anyone know of ANY Southern or Interstate records or documentation that exists anywhere? If so…try to obtain it for the SRHA archives. I am certain we have the largest collection of Southern Railway drawings and documents anywhere but even smaller collections add to the knowledge base. Personal collections are welcome with the proviso that items that duplicate what we already have, typically books and magazines, can be sold.



On Dec 21, 2020, at 11:52 PM, Daniel Bourque <deltabourque@...> wrote:

Ike,
 
Thank you for that list! It’ll definitely help narrow down a few of the loaders—now I need to figure out which coal companies sold to which other companies so I can match up tipples. Sometimes I feel like I’m in “National Treasure”. . . just one more clue. . .
 
Every clue counts, so thanks again! Cool info on the ships and Charleston, too.
 
Dan
 
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
 
From: George Eichelberger
Sent: Monday, December 21, 2020 6:14 PM
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] St Charles Branch Coal Loader Info
 
Here is one page from a report listing many/all(?) active coal mines on the Southern in 1974. It covers both the St. Charles line on the Appalachia Div. and the Interstate.

There are many files discussing coal in the SRHA archives. Some have been scanned but much more research is needed. One topic is the Southern's coal pier at Charleston. It loaded ship for domestic and international destinations as well a "bunker" coal for the ships. At one time, coal fired ships of all kind would dock at the pier for bunker coal as they left port. Most of the Charleston coal came from the Appalachia/St. Charles mines down through Asheville and Saluda.

Ike

 
<2B9F4CC27F2049889CF4BCB37B2ED9BF.png>


D. Scott Chatfield
 

I guess my phone doesn't want to upload directly to this list's file section on groups.io, so I'll just attach the images to this email.



Scott Chatfield


-------- Original message --------
From: "D. Scott Chatfield" <blindog@...>
Date: 12/21/2020 5:29 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] St Charles Branch Coal Loader Info

In the Archives we have a map printed by the Southern of active coal loadouts in October 1984.  Of course it includes the Southern and Interstate lines in southwest Virginia.  I took quick pics of the map last year at a work session to share with a friend who models the ex-Interstate lines in the NS era.  

I don't know if the archives have any earlier versions of that map, or if such exist.

I haven't uploaded anything to Groups.io file section, so I'll try to figure that out tonight.



Scott Chatfield


Daniel Bourque
 

Scott,

 

Thank you so much! Just to confirm this is from Oct 1984?

 

Dan

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: D. Scott Chatfield
Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2020 7:11 PM
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] St Charles Branch Coal Loader Info

 

I guess my phone doesn't want to upload directly to this list's file section on groups.io, so I'll just attach the images to this email.

 

 

 

Scott Chatfield



-------- Original message --------
From: "D. Scott Chatfield" <blindog@...>
Date: 12/21/2020 5:29 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] St Charles Branch Coal Loader Info

In the Archives we have a map printed by the Southern of active coal loadouts in October 1984.  Of course it includes the Southern and Interstate lines in southwest Virginia.  I took quick pics of the map last year at a work session to share with a friend who models the ex-Interstate lines in the NS era.  

 

I don't know if the archives have any earlier versions of that map, or if such exist.

 

I haven't uploaded anything to Groups.io file section, so I'll try to figure that out tonight.

 

 

 

Scott Chatfield

 


D. Scott Chatfield
 

> Just to confirm this is from Oct 1984?

Yes.

Scott Chatfield


Evan Miller
 

This was posted by Ron Stafford in the Appalachian Rails and Mining Facebook group. It is from March 1963. 

Scott, noticed your photos show some of the Middlesboro District mines. It caught my attention that some are listed that I thought were L&N only.  I wonder if Southern had them listed even if they were not actively loading?

-Evan Miller


Daniel Bourque
 

For those interested in this topic, here's a snapshot of the spreadsheet containing my research on the St. Charles Branch coal loaders and their periods of operation. It's far from complete, but every little bit of data helps, so thank you to all who've shared! And thank you for the map, Evan--I will definitely have to find that Facebook group! 

Dan Bourque


From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io> on behalf of Evan Miller via groups.io <nsrailfan82@...>
Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2020 1:29 AM
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] St Charles Branch Coal Loader Info
 

This was posted by Ron Stafford in the Appalachian Rails and Mining Facebook group. It is from March 1963. 

Scott, noticed your photos show some of the Middlesboro District mines. It caught my attention that some are listed that I thought were L&N only.  I wonder if Southern had them listed even if they were not actively loading?

-Evan Miller


Stephen Warner
 

Evan - Southern long had access to Middlesboro, via trackage rights from Cumberland Gap through the tunnel to Middlesboro.  As CSXT traffic from Middlesboro dropped off in the 80’s and NS traffic increased, they leased The Middlesboro facility to NS in exchange for NS leasing the Virginian Winding Gulf branch to CSXT beyond Amigo in 1985 (I wrote both agreements).  Having worked on the St. Charles line in the 70’s I always thought that there were similarities between the two operations.  This is the first time that I have seen the 1963 map, however.  It is especially interesting in the trackage that goes past Benedict to Monarch and Imperial.  Sometime before 1970 these two evidently closed, as a portion of the line was retained as tailback room to make the move up into Benedict (the old site).  On my first inspection  trip in 1970 was intrigued by that tailback track disappearing into the woods, and wondered if it at one time went farther,  Now I know.  Thanks.


Daniel Bourque
 

Stephen,

In addition to the St. Charles Branch and Middlesboro lines, the Southern and L&N also shared the Clear Fork Branch on the KY/TN border--the Southern reached it via trackage rights over the L&N's main near Jellico. Like the other two, the Clear Fork Branch was coal, coal, coal.

In the '50s, there were three major tipples at the end of the Southern's branch to Benedict. The first is Benedict, as you mentioned. The Monarch tipple (Blue Diamond Coal) was geographically south of the tail track--the track to serve it left the main just before the trestle at Benedict (it had its own adjacent trestle). The Imperial tipple was geographically north of the tail track and reached by a separate switchback going up the hillside. Imperial seems to have disappeared in the '50s. Monarch was gone by the late '60s. 

Dan Bourque


From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io> on behalf of sgwarner88@... <sgwarner88@...>
Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2020 8:06 AM
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] St Charles Branch Coal Loader Info
 
Evan - Southern long had access to Middlesboro, via trackage rights from Cumberland Gap through the tunnel to Middlesboro.  As CSXT traffic from Middlesboro dropped off in the 80’s and NS traffic increased, they leased The Middlesboro facility to NS in exchange for NS leasing the Virginian Winding Gulf branch to CSXT beyond Amigo in 1985 (I wrote both agreements).  Having worked on the St. Charles line in the 70’s I always thought that there were similarities between the two operations.  This is the first time that I have seen the 1963 map, however.  It is especially interesting in the trackage that goes past Benedict to Monarch and Imperial.  Sometime before 1970 these two evidently closed, as a portion of the line was retained as tailback room to make the move up into Benedict (the old site).  On my first inspection  trip in 1970 was intrigued by that tailback track disappearing into the woods, and wondered if it at one time went farther,  Now I know.  Thanks.