|
Evan Miller
Hello everyone, I’m looking for information on what happened to the Interstate RR coal fleet after being acquired by Southern.
I know many were placed into captive “yellow ball” service for the Westmoreland transloader in Appalachia, however it wasn't until 1966 that the transloader was built and shipping coal.
So what exactly did Southern do with the fleet during the interim period of 1960-1966? Where they simply mixed into the main Southern coal fleet? Where they generally kept in the former Interstate territory like the RS3 fleet? When did Southern begin assigning offset hoppers to INT ownership?
Thanks for any help!
-Evan Miller
|
|
|
Evan:
Here is a tiny (!) snippet from the SRHA rolling stock data spreadsheets.
Many Interstate hoppers were either scrapped because of their age and condition, used in “yellow ball” service, then scrapped (no lists or specific documentation on cars used for local coal service have ever been located) or were “articulated" with other 50-T hoppers to become 100-T cars.
The last runaway on Saluda Mtn had a large percentage of INT hoppers. Many were found to have defective brakes.
Ike
INT
|
8192
|
|
9/26/1967
|
|
In "Report of cars dismantled during August 1967"
|
|
|
INT
|
8196
|
|
10/28/1970
|
|
50-T hopper
|
recommended for retirement
|
|
INT
|
8198
|
|
8/2/1968
|
SCP-961-D
|
50-t hopper car
|
joined with INT 8132 and renumbered Sou 102243
|
|
INT
|
8199
|
|
8/20/1968
|
|
authorized for retirement and dismantled, July 1968
|
|
|
INT
|
8200
|
|
7/24/1968
|
SCP-961-A
|
50-t hopper car
|
joined with INT 7110 and renumbered Sou 102109
|
|
INT
|
8206
|
|
7/8/1965
|
SCP-861 A&B
|
|
joined with INT 8645 and renumbered Sou 102311
|
|
INT
|
8207
|
|
12/1/1969
|
|
50T hopper
|
recommended for retirement
|
|
INT
|
8209
|
|
11/1/1965
|
SCP-861
|
50-t hopper car
|
joined with INT 8618 and renumbered CG 23002
|
|
INT
|
8211
|
|
5/19/1965
|
SCP-861
|
50-t hopper car
|
joined with INT 7680 and renumbered Sou 102275
|
|
INT
|
8212
|
|
8/2/1968
|
SCP-961-D
|
50-t hopper car
|
joined with INT 7877 and renumbered Sou 102242
|
|
INT
|
8213
|
|
4/19/1968
|
|
In "Report of Equipment Dismantled March 1968"
|
|
|
INT
|
8214
|
|
12/3/1965
|
SCP-861-B
|
50-t hopper car
|
joined with INT 8048 and renumbered CG 23022
|
|
INT
|
8222
|
|
7/17/1968
|
SCP-961-A
|
50-t hopper car
|
joined with INT 7880 and renumbered Sou 102104
|
|
INT
|
8229
|
|
8/2/1968
|
SCP-961-D
|
50-t hopper car
|
joined with INT 9046 and renumbered Sou 102245
|
|
INT
|
8231
|
|
8/20/1965
|
SCP-861
|
50-ton hopper
|
to articulated hopper Sou 102342
|
|
INT
|
8235
|
|
8/10/1965
|
SCP-861
|
50-t hopper car
|
artic w/INT 7649 and renumbered Sou 102334
|
|
INT
|
8236
|
|
12/27/1971
|
|
50-T hopper car
|
recommended for retirement
|
|
INT
|
8239
|
|
6/14/1965
|
SCP-861
|
50-t hopper car
|
articulated with INT 7831 and renumbered 102294
|
|
INT
|
8243
|
|
8/11/1965
|
SCP-861
|
50-t hopper car
|
artic w/INT 9019 and renumbered Sou 102335
|
|
INT
|
8250
|
|
11/10/1965
|
SCP-861
|
50-t hopper car
|
joined with INT 7417 and renumbered CG 23014
|
|
INT
|
8251
|
|
5/1/1968
|
|
In "Report of Equipment Dismantled May 1968"
|
|
|
INT
|
8252
|
|
12/1/1969
|
|
50T hopper
|
recommended for retirement
|
|
INT
|
8253
|
|
6/21/1972
|
|
50T hopper, blt 1947
|
recommended for retirement
|
|
INT
|
8255
|
|
9/26/1967
|
|
In "Report of cars dismantled during August 1967"
|
|
|
INT
|
8256
|
|
5/17/1965
|
SCP-861
|
50-t hopper car
|
joined with INT 7305 and renumbered Sou 102273
|
|
INT
|
8257
|
|
7/14/1965
|
SCP-861
|
50-t hopper car
|
joined with INT 8887 and renumbered Sou 102315
|
|
INT
|
8264
|
|
6/25/1965
|
SCP-861-A&B
|
50-t hopper car
|
joined with INT 8631 and renumbered Sou 102304
|
|
Hello everyone, I’m looking for information on what happened to the Interstate RR coal fleet after being acquired by Southern.
I know many were placed into captive “yellow ball” service for the Westmoreland transloader in Appalachia, however it wasn't until 1966 that the transloader was built and shipping coal.
So what exactly did Southern do with the fleet during the interim period of 1960-1966? Where they simply mixed into the main Southern coal fleet? Where they generally kept in the former Interstate territory like the RS3 fleet? When did Southern begin assigning offset hoppers to INT ownership?
Thanks for any help!
-Evan Miller
|
|
|
Evan,
The Interstate continued to operate generally as it had before Southern’s acquisition between 1960 and 1965 when the Southern shut down its Appalachia yard and moved into Andover (clearing the way for the Westmoreland transloader). So what happened to
the Interstate cars was essentially a continuation of what was occurring prior to 1960.
The Interstate’s hopper fleet was always wide ranging. In fact, the Interstate lived off of per diem for these cars for most of its life. The fact these cars were coming to the end of their useful lives was a big incentive to sell the Interstate. Additionally,
the Interstate had agreements with the Southern for empty hopper supply prior to the sale, so the free mixing of Southern and Interstate cars on both roads was commonplace both before and after 1960. Additionally, the Interstate continued to ship coal via
its connections with L&N, N&W, and CRR, so you’d see the IRR hoppers just about everywhere until they were made captive to the transloader in the late ‘60s.
Many cars were repainted in a Southern-style scheme starting in the mid-‘60s, and as Ike said, some were converted to permanently coupled 100T “articulated” hoppers and repainted in cool variations of Southern lettering (like “SOUT” on one car and “HERN”
on the other—wish someone would make some decals).
The Southern started placing older offset hoppers, some with extended sides, into Interstate service in ~’64. This was prior to the transloader, so you could find these cars all over the country as well for a couple years. The transloader changed everything
and saw most of the original IRR cars and the donated offsets placed in captive “yellow ball” service by the late ‘60s as you mentioned, so that’s when sightings outside of the Interstate and St Charles Branches would become rare.
The yellow ball fleet became increasingly eclectic in the ‘70s including most of the Southern’s remaining twin hopper fleet and war-emergency rebuilds (standard and extended height), 50T fish-belly and 70T hoppers from the original NS, a large number of
70T triple hoppers downgraded from mainline service, and even guest appearances from brand-new 100T twin aggregate hoppers in the winter. More than you asked about, but pretty cool fleet of coal cars!
Dan Bourque
On Jan 16, 2021, at 10:31 AM, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:
Evan:
Here is a tiny (!) snippet from the SRHA rolling stock data spreadsheets.
Many Interstate hoppers were either scrapped because of their age and condition, used in “yellow ball” service, then scrapped (no lists or specific documentation on cars used for local coal service have ever been located) or were “articulated"
with other 50-T hoppers to become 100-T cars.
The last runaway on Saluda Mtn had a large percentage of INT hoppers. Many were found to have defective brakes.
Ike
|
INT
|
8192
|
|
9/26/1967
|
|
In "Report of cars dismantled during August 1967"
|
|
|
|
INT
|
8196
|
|
10/28/1970
|
|
50-T hopper
|
recommended for retirement
|
|
|
INT
|
8198
|
|
8/2/1968
|
SCP-961-D
|
50-t hopper car
|
joined with INT 8132 and renumbered Sou 102243
|
|
|
INT
|
8199
|
|
8/20/1968
|
|
authorized for retirement and dismantled, July 1968
|
|
|
|
INT
|
8200
|
|
7/24/1968
|
SCP-961-A
|
50-t hopper car
|
joined with INT 7110 and renumbered Sou 102109
|
|
|
INT
|
8206
|
|
7/8/1965
|
SCP-861 A&B
|
|
joined with INT 8645 and renumbered Sou 102311
|
|
|
INT
|
8207
|
|
12/1/1969
|
|
50T hopper
|
recommended for retirement
|
|
|
INT
|
8209
|
|
11/1/1965
|
SCP-861
|
50-t hopper car
|
joined with INT 8618 and renumbered CG 23002
|
|
|
INT
|
8211
|
|
5/19/1965
|
SCP-861
|
50-t hopper car
|
joined with INT 7680 and renumbered Sou 102275
|
|
|
INT
|
8212
|
|
8/2/1968
|
SCP-961-D
|
50-t hopper car
|
joined with INT 7877 and renumbered Sou 102242
|
|
|
INT
|
8213
|
|
4/19/1968
|
|
In "Report of Equipment Dismantled March 1968"
|
|
|
|
INT
|
8214
|
|
12/3/1965
|
SCP-861-B
|
50-t hopper car
|
joined with INT 8048 and renumbered CG 23022
|
|
|
INT
|
8222
|
|
7/17/1968
|
SCP-961-A
|
50-t hopper car
|
joined with INT 7880 and renumbered Sou 102104
|
|
|
INT
|
8229
|
|
8/2/1968
|
SCP-961-D
|
50-t hopper car
|
joined with INT 9046 and renumbered Sou 102245
|
|
|
INT
|
8231
|
|
8/20/1965
|
SCP-861
|
50-ton hopper
|
to articulated hopper Sou 102342
|
|
|
INT
|
8235
|
|
8/10/1965
|
SCP-861
|
50-t hopper car
|
artic w/INT 7649 and renumbered Sou 102334
|
|
|
INT
|
8236
|
|
12/27/1971
|
|
50-T hopper car
|
recommended for retirement
|
|
|
INT
|
8239
|
|
6/14/1965
|
SCP-861
|
50-t hopper car
|
articulated with INT 7831 and renumbered 102294
|
|
|
INT
|
8243
|
|
8/11/1965
|
SCP-861
|
50-t hopper car
|
artic w/INT 9019 and renumbered Sou 102335
|
|
|
INT
|
8250
|
|
11/10/1965
|
SCP-861
|
50-t hopper car
|
joined with INT 7417 and renumbered CG 23014
|
|
|
INT
|
8251
|
|
5/1/1968
|
|
In "Report of Equipment Dismantled May 1968"
|
|
|
|
INT
|
8252
|
|
12/1/1969
|
|
50T hopper
|
recommended for retirement
|
|
|
INT
|
8253
|
|
6/21/1972
|
|
50T hopper, blt 1947
|
recommended for retirement
|
|
|
INT
|
8255
|
|
9/26/1967
|
|
In "Report of cars dismantled during August 1967"
|
|
|
|
INT
|
8256
|
|
5/17/1965
|
SCP-861
|
50-t hopper car
|
joined with INT 7305 and renumbered Sou 102273
|
|
|
INT
|
8257
|
|
7/14/1965
|
SCP-861
|
50-t hopper car
|
joined with INT 8887 and renumbered Sou 102315
|
|
|
INT
|
8264
|
|
6/25/1965
|
SCP-861-A&B
|
50-t hopper car
|
joined with INT 8631 and renumbered Sou 102304
|
|
Hello everyone, I’m looking for information on what happened to the Interstate RR coal fleet after being acquired by Southern.
I know many were placed into captive “yellow ball” service for the Westmoreland transloader in Appalachia, however it wasn't until 1966 that the transloader was built and shipping coal.
So what exactly did Southern do with the fleet during the interim period of 1960-1966? Where they simply mixed into the main Southern coal fleet? Where they generally kept in the former Interstate territory like the RS3 fleet? When did Southern begin assigning
offset hoppers to INT ownership?
Thanks for any help!
-Evan Miller
|
|
|
I suspect the Mechanical Dept people did not think FRA inspectors would venture into the wilds of SW VA very often in the late 70s. Defects were visible on many of the yellow ball cars. If one was wrecked and not interfering with traffic, Southern would let them stay where they were until a contractor could scrap them. (No doubt local houses’ coal heaters had plenty of fuel?)
Southern 72747 was at the far end of one of the Interstate branches just off mine property. When cars were loaded at the tipple, a mine worker would use the hand brake (and gravity) to move the car out of the way. If they started to spin the brake wheel and the car was not stopping, I expect they knew it was time to get off. In the case of 72747, the split switch derail put the car into the ditch before it could continue down the branch.
Ike
Evan,
The Interstate continued to operate generally as it had before Southern’s acquisition between 1960 and 1965 when the Southern shut down its Appalachia yard and moved into Andover (clearing the way for the Westmoreland transloader). So what happened to
the Interstate cars was essentially a continuation of what was occurring prior to 1960.
The Interstate’s hopper fleet was always wide ranging. In fact, the Interstate lived off of per diem for these cars for most of its life. The fact these cars were coming to the end of their useful lives was a big incentive to sell the Interstate. Additionally,
the Interstate had agreements with the Southern for empty hopper supply prior to the sale, so the free mixing of Southern and Interstate cars on both roads was commonplace both before and after 1960. Additionally, the Interstate continued to ship coal via
its connections with L&N, N&W, and CRR, so you’d see the IRR hoppers just about everywhere until they were made captive to the transloader in the late ‘60s.
Many cars were repainted in a Southern-style scheme starting in the mid-‘60s, and as Ike said, some were converted to permanently coupled 100T “articulated” hoppers and repainted in cool variations of Southern lettering (like “SOUT” on one car and “HERN”
on the other—wish someone would make some decals).
The Southern started placing older offset hoppers, some with extended sides, into Interstate service in ~’64. This was prior to the transloader, so you could find these cars all over the country as well for a couple years. The transloader changed everything
and saw most of the original IRR cars and the donated offsets placed in captive “yellow ball” service by the late ‘60s as you mentioned, so that’s when sightings outside of the Interstate and St Charles Branches would become rare.
The yellow ball fleet became increasingly eclectic in the ‘70s including most of the Southern’s remaining twin hopper fleet and war-emergency rebuilds (standard and extended height), 50T fish-belly and 70T hoppers from the original NS, a large number of
70T triple hoppers downgraded from mainline service, and even guest appearances from brand-new 100T twin aggregate hoppers in the winter. More than you asked about, but pretty cool fleet of coal cars!
Dan Bourque
|
|
|
Mr. Ike,
Do you have the date and any other information on the last Saluda Mountain runaway?
(Other than the defective brakes on the Interstate cars)
Rod S.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io> on behalf of George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...>
Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2021 11:31 AM
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] The Interstate Coal Fleet: 1960-1966?
Evan:
Here is a tiny (!) snippet from the SRHA rolling stock data spreadsheets.
Many Interstate hoppers were either scrapped because of their age and condition, used in “yellow ball” service, then scrapped (no lists or specific documentation on cars used for local coal service have ever been located) or were “articulated"
with other 50-T hoppers to become 100-T cars.
The last runaway on Saluda Mtn had a large percentage of INT hoppers. Many were found to have defective brakes.
Ike
|
INT
|
8192
|
|
9/26/1967
|
|
In "Report of cars dismantled during August 1967"
|
|
|
|
INT
|
8196
|
|
10/28/1970
|
|
50-T hopper
|
recommended for retirement
|
|
|
INT
|
8198
|
|
8/2/1968
|
SCP-961-D
|
50-t hopper car
|
joined with INT 8132 and renumbered Sou 102243
|
|
|
INT
|
8199
|
|
8/20/1968
|
|
authorized for retirement and dismantled, July 1968
|
|
|
|
INT
|
8200
|
|
7/24/1968
|
SCP-961-A
|
50-t hopper car
|
joined with INT 7110 and renumbered Sou 102109
|
|
|
INT
|
8206
|
|
7/8/1965
|
SCP-861 A&B
|
|
joined with INT 8645 and renumbered Sou 102311
|
|
|
INT
|
8207
|
|
12/1/1969
|
|
50T hopper
|
recommended for retirement
|
|
|
INT
|
8209
|
|
11/1/1965
|
SCP-861
|
50-t hopper car
|
joined with INT 8618 and renumbered CG 23002
|
|
|
INT
|
8211
|
|
5/19/1965
|
SCP-861
|
50-t hopper car
|
joined with INT 7680 and renumbered Sou 102275
|
|
|
INT
|
8212
|
|
8/2/1968
|
SCP-961-D
|
50-t hopper car
|
joined with INT 7877 and renumbered Sou 102242
|
|
|
INT
|
8213
|
|
4/19/1968
|
|
In "Report of Equipment Dismantled March 1968"
|
|
|
|
INT
|
8214
|
|
12/3/1965
|
SCP-861-B
|
50-t hopper car
|
joined with INT 8048 and renumbered CG 23022
|
|
|
INT
|
8222
|
|
7/17/1968
|
SCP-961-A
|
50-t hopper car
|
joined with INT 7880 and renumbered Sou 102104
|
|
|
INT
|
8229
|
|
8/2/1968
|
SCP-961-D
|
50-t hopper car
|
joined with INT 9046 and renumbered Sou 102245
|
|
|
INT
|
8231
|
|
8/20/1965
|
SCP-861
|
50-ton hopper
|
to articulated hopper Sou 102342
|
|
|
INT
|
8235
|
|
8/10/1965
|
SCP-861
|
50-t hopper car
|
artic w/INT 7649 and renumbered Sou 102334
|
|
|
INT
|
8236
|
|
12/27/1971
|
|
50-T hopper car
|
recommended for retirement
|
|
|
INT
|
8239
|
|
6/14/1965
|
SCP-861
|
50-t hopper car
|
articulated with INT 7831 and renumbered 102294
|
|
|
INT
|
8243
|
|
8/11/1965
|
SCP-861
|
50-t hopper car
|
artic w/INT 9019 and renumbered Sou 102335
|
|
|
INT
|
8250
|
|
11/10/1965
|
SCP-861
|
50-t hopper car
|
joined with INT 7417 and renumbered CG 23014
|
|
|
INT
|
8251
|
|
5/1/1968
|
|
In "Report of Equipment Dismantled May 1968"
|
|
|
|
INT
|
8252
|
|
12/1/1969
|
|
50T hopper
|
recommended for retirement
|
|
|
INT
|
8253
|
|
6/21/1972
|
|
50T hopper, blt 1947
|
recommended for retirement
|
|
|
INT
|
8255
|
|
9/26/1967
|
|
In "Report of cars dismantled during August 1967"
|
|
|
|
INT
|
8256
|
|
5/17/1965
|
SCP-861
|
50-t hopper car
|
joined with INT 7305 and renumbered Sou 102273
|
|
|
INT
|
8257
|
|
7/14/1965
|
SCP-861
|
50-t hopper car
|
joined with INT 8887 and renumbered Sou 102315
|
|
|
INT
|
8264
|
|
6/25/1965
|
SCP-861-A&B
|
50-t hopper car
|
joined with INT 8631 and renumbered Sou 102304
|
|
Hello everyone, I’m looking for information on what happened to the Interstate RR coal fleet after being acquired by Southern.
I know many were placed into captive “yellow ball” service for the Westmoreland transloader in Appalachia, however it wasn't until 1966 that the transloader was built and shipping coal.
So what exactly did Southern do with the fleet during the interim period of 1960-1966? Where they simply mixed into the main Southern coal fleet? Where they generally kept in the former Interstate territory like the RS3 fleet? When did Southern begin assigning
offset hoppers to INT ownership?
Thanks for any help!
-Evan Miller
|
|
|
Rodney:
If we have anything it would be in the Chattanooga archives…I’m just outside of Atlanta.
I’d suggest looking into some of the sites that keep ICC accident reports.
Ike
On Jan 16, 2021, at 4:41 PM, Rodney Shu < rodshu@...> wrote: Mr. Ike, Do you have the date and any other information on the last Saluda Mountain runaway? (Other than the defective brakes on the Interstate cars)
Rod S.
Evan:
Here is a tiny (!) snippet from the SRHA rolling stock data spreadsheets.
Many Interstate hoppers were either scrapped because of their age and condition, used in “yellow ball” service, then scrapped (no lists or specific documentation on cars used for local coal service have ever been located) or were “articulated" with other 50-T hoppers to become 100-T cars.
The last runaway on Saluda Mtn had a large percentage of INT hoppers. Many were found to have defective brakes.
Ike
INT | 8192 |
| 9/26/1967 |
| In "Report of cars dismantled during August 1967" |
|
| INT | 8196 |
| 10/28/1970 |
| 50-T hopper | recommended for retirement |
| INT | 8198 |
| 8/2/1968 | SCP-961-D | 50-t hopper car | joined with INT 8132 and renumbered Sou 102243 |
| INT | 8199 |
| 8/20/1968 |
| authorized for retirement and dismantled, July 1968 |
|
| INT | 8200 |
| 7/24/1968 | SCP-961-A | 50-t hopper car | joined with INT 7110 and renumbered Sou 102109 |
| INT | 8206 |
| 7/8/1965 | SCP-861 A&B |
| joined with INT 8645 and renumbered Sou 102311 |
| INT | 8207 |
| 12/1/1969 |
| 50T hopper | recommended for retirement |
| INT | 8209 |
| 11/1/1965 | SCP-861 | 50-t hopper car | joined with INT 8618 and renumbered CG 23002 |
| INT | 8211 |
| 5/19/1965 | SCP-861 | 50-t hopper car | joined with INT 7680 and renumbered Sou 102275 |
| INT | 8212 |
| 8/2/1968 | SCP-961-D | 50-t hopper car | joined with INT 7877 and renumbered Sou 102242 |
| INT | 8213 |
| 4/19/1968 |
| In "Report of Equipment Dismantled March 1968" |
|
| INT | 8214 |
| 12/3/1965 | SCP-861-B | 50-t hopper car | joined with INT 8048 and renumbered CG 23022 |
| INT | 8222 |
| 7/17/1968 | SCP-961-A | 50-t hopper car | joined with INT 7880 and renumbered Sou 102104 |
| INT | 8229 |
| 8/2/1968 | SCP-961-D | 50-t hopper car | joined with INT 9046 and renumbered Sou 102245 |
| INT | 8231 |
| 8/20/1965 | SCP-861 | 50-ton hopper | to articulated hopper Sou 102342 |
| INT | 8235 |
| 8/10/1965 | SCP-861 | 50-t hopper car | artic w/INT 7649 and renumbered Sou 102334 |
| INT | 8236 |
| 12/27/1971 |
| 50-T hopper car | recommended for retirement |
| INT | 8239 |
| 6/14/1965 | SCP-861 | 50-t hopper car | articulated with INT 7831 and renumbered 102294 |
| INT | 8243 |
| 8/11/1965 | SCP-861 | 50-t hopper car | artic w/INT 9019 and renumbered Sou 102335 |
| INT | 8250 |
| 11/10/1965 | SCP-861 | 50-t hopper car | joined with INT 7417 and renumbered CG 23014 |
| INT | 8251 |
| 5/1/1968 |
| In "Report of Equipment Dismantled May 1968" |
|
| INT | 8252 |
| 12/1/1969 |
| 50T hopper | recommended for retirement |
| INT | 8253 |
| 6/21/1972 |
| 50T hopper, blt 1947 | recommended for retirement |
| INT | 8255 |
| 9/26/1967 |
| In "Report of cars dismantled during August 1967" |
|
| INT | 8256 |
| 5/17/1965 | SCP-861 | 50-t hopper car | joined with INT 7305 and renumbered Sou 102273 |
| INT | 8257 |
| 7/14/1965 | SCP-861 | 50-t hopper car | joined with INT 8887 and renumbered Sou 102315 |
| INT | 8264 |
| 6/25/1965 | SCP-861-A&B | 50-t hopper car | joined with INT 8631 and renumbered Sou 102304 |
|
Hello everyone, I’m looking for information on what happened to the Interstate RR coal fleet after being acquired by Southern.
I know many were placed into captive “yellow ball” service for the Westmoreland transloader in Appalachia, however it wasn't until 1966 that the transloader was built and shipping coal.
So what exactly did Southern do with the fleet during the interim period of 1960-1966? Where they simply mixed into the main Southern coal fleet? Where they generally kept in the former Interstate territory like the RS3 fleet? When did Southern begin assigning offset hoppers to INT ownership?
Thanks for any help!
-Evan Miller
|
|
|
The company reports would have been in the Asheville Division records which are long gone.
CEA
On 01/16/2021 6:05 PM George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:
Rodney:
If we have anything it would be in the Chattanooga archives…I’m just outside of Atlanta.
I’d suggest looking into some of the sites that keep ICC accident reports.
Ike
On Jan 16, 2021, at 4:41 PM, Rodney Shu <
rodshu@...> wrote:
Mr. Ike,
Do you have the date and any other information on the last Saluda Mountain runaway?
(Other than the defective brakes on the Interstate cars)
Rod S.
Evan:
Here is a tiny (!) snippet from the SRHA rolling stock data spreadsheets.
Many Interstate hoppers were either scrapped because of their age and condition, used in “yellow ball” service, then scrapped (no lists or specific documentation on cars used for local coal service have ever been located) or were “articulated" with other 50-T hoppers to become 100-T cars.
The last runaway on Saluda Mtn had a large percentage of INT hoppers. Many were found to have defective brakes.
Ike
|
INT
|
8192
|
|
9/26/1967
|
|
In "Report of cars dismantled during August 1967"
|
|
|
|
INT
|
8196
|
|
10/28/1970
|
|
50-T hopper
|
recommended for retirement
|
|
|
INT
|
8198
|
|
8/2/1968
|
SCP-961-D
|
50-t hopper car
|
joined with INT 8132 and renumbered Sou 102243
|
|
|
INT
|
8199
|
|
8/20/1968
|
|
authorized for retirement and dismantled, July 1968
|
|
|
|
INT
|
8200
|
|
7/24/1968
|
SCP-961-A
|
50-t hopper car
|
joined with INT 7110 and renumbered Sou 102109
|
|
|
INT
|
8206
|
|
7/8/1965
|
SCP-861 A&B
|
|
joined with INT 8645 and renumbered Sou 102311
|
|
|
INT
|
8207
|
|
12/1/1969
|
|
50T hopper
|
recommended for retirement
|
|
|
INT
|
8209
|
|
11/1/1965
|
SCP-861
|
50-t hopper car
|
joined with INT 8618 and renumbered CG 23002
|
|
|
INT
|
8211
|
|
5/19/1965
|
SCP-861
|
50-t hopper car
|
joined with INT 7680 and renumbered Sou 102275
|
|
|
INT
|
8212
|
|
8/2/1968
|
SCP-961-D
|
50-t hopper car
|
joined with INT 7877 and renumbered Sou 102242
|
|
|
INT
|
8213
|
|
4/19/1968
|
|
In "Report of Equipment Dismantled March 1968"
|
|
|
|
INT
|
8214
|
|
12/3/1965
|
SCP-861-B
|
50-t hopper car
|
joined with INT 8048 and renumbered CG 23022
|
|
|
INT
|
8222
|
|
7/17/1968
|
SCP-961-A
|
50-t hopper car
|
joined with INT 7880 and renumbered Sou 102104
|
|
|
INT
|
8229
|
|
8/2/1968
|
SCP-961-D
|
50-t hopper car
|
joined with INT 9046 and renumbered Sou 102245
|
|
|
INT
|
8231
|
|
8/20/1965
|
SCP-861
|
50-ton hopper
|
to articulated hopper Sou 102342
|
|
|
INT
|
8235
|
|
8/10/1965
|
SCP-861
|
50-t hopper car
|
artic w/INT 7649 and renumbered Sou 102334
|
|
|
INT
|
8236
|
|
12/27/1971
|
|
50-T hopper car
|
recommended for retirement
|
|
|
INT
|
8239
|
|
6/14/1965
|
SCP-861
|
50-t hopper car
|
articulated with INT 7831 and renumbered 102294
|
|
|
INT
|
8243
|
|
8/11/1965
|
SCP-861
|
50-t hopper car
|
artic w/INT 9019 and renumbered Sou 102335
|
|
|
INT
|
8250
|
|
11/10/1965
|
SCP-861
|
50-t hopper car
|
joined with INT 7417 and renumbered CG 23014
|
|
|
INT
|
8251
|
|
5/1/1968
|
|
In "Report of Equipment Dismantled May 1968"
|
|
|
|
INT
|
8252
|
|
12/1/1969
|
|
50T hopper
|
recommended for retirement
|
|
|
INT
|
8253
|
|
6/21/1972
|
|
50T hopper, blt 1947
|
recommended for retirement
|
|
|
INT
|
8255
|
|
9/26/1967
|
|
In "Report of cars dismantled during August 1967"
|
|
|
|
INT
|
8256
|
|
5/17/1965
|
SCP-861
|
50-t hopper car
|
joined with INT 7305 and renumbered Sou 102273
|
|
|
INT
|
8257
|
|
7/14/1965
|
SCP-861
|
50-t hopper car
|
joined with INT 8887 and renumbered Sou 102315
|
|
|
INT
|
8264
|
|
6/25/1965
|
SCP-861-A&B
|
50-t hopper car
|
joined with INT 8631 and renumbered Sou 102304
|
|
Hello everyone, I’m looking for information on what happened to the Interstate RR coal fleet after being acquired by Southern.
I know many were placed into captive “yellow ball” service for the Westmoreland transloader in Appalachia, however it wasn't until 1966 that the transloader was built and shipping coal.
So what exactly did Southern do with the fleet during the interim period of 1960-1966? Where they simply mixed into the main Southern coal fleet? Where they generally kept in the former Interstate territory like the RS3 fleet? When did Southern begin assigning offset hoppers to INT ownership?
Thanks for any help!
-Evan Miller
|
|
|
While I do not have a record of this particular car, and I do not recall any cars just left off-track (maybe the scrapper got there first), I do recall the original Benedict mine as having occasional dropped cars on the ground after running thru the SP derail. I was called there for those occasions to verify the track repairs. It was a pretty steep gravity drop location.
|
|
|
Those hybrids were strange looking. Around ‘65 or so I recall seeing one standing under the Gay St. viaduct, and asked a Sou. Carman what they were. His answer was less than printable, likely because I suspect that they would have a double AB valve and brake systems (Plus eight journals) for one car. I seem to recall that it was a combination of off-set hoppers, permanently coupled. The split lettering was an eye-caitching.
|
|
|
What I haven’t been able to figure out with these “articulated” cars is how they were coupled. I would assume a drawbar, but photos aren’t clear. How do you designate an A and B end with brake wheels on both? I know the idea was to cut costs for shipping because
it was technically a single-car movement, but still a strange car.
I’ve seen pictures of these cars made from either ex-Interstate hoppers (similar to AAR rib-side hoppers) or rebuilt war-emergency hoppers with the diagonal bracing. Paint schemes also seem pretty varied including both black and red. Some cars have the
big split letters, and some have “SOUTHERN” on the “left” car and the car number on the right.
On Jan 17, 2021, at 7:33 AM, sgwarner88@... wrote:
Those hybrids were strange looking. Around ‘65 or so I recall seeing one standing under the Gay St. viaduct, and asked a Sou. Carman what they were. His answer was less than printable, likely because I suspect that they would have a double
AB valve and brake systems (Plus eight journals) for one car. I seem to recall that it was a combination of off-set hoppers, permanently coupled. The split lettering was an eye-caitching.
|
|
|
For what it’s worth, my recollection is that the cars were joined with a solid drawbar and a solid air hose - no glad hands. Also, I do not ever recall seeing “artics” painted black. If anyone has such a color image, please post it. All the cars I remember seeing were painted red, regardless of the placement of the letters.
What I haven’t been able to figure out with these “articulated” cars is how they were coupled. I would assume a drawbar, but photos aren’t clear. How do you designate an A and B end with brake wheels on both? I know the idea was to cut costs for shipping because
it was technically a single-car movement, but still a strange car.
I’ve seen pictures of these cars made from either ex-Interstate hoppers (similar to AAR rib-side hoppers) or rebuilt war-emergency hoppers with the diagonal bracing. Paint schemes also seem pretty varied including both black and red. Some cars have the
big split letters, and some have “SOUTHERN” on the “left” car and the car number on the right.
Dan
Those hybrids were strange looking. Around ‘65 or so I recall seeing one standing under the Gay St. viaduct, and asked a Sou. Carman what they were. His answer was less than printable, likely because I suspect that they would have a double
AB valve and brake systems (Plus eight journals) for one car. I seem to recall that it was a combination of off-set hoppers, permanently coupled. The split lettering was an eye-caitching.
|
|
|
Bill,
I don’t have any photos I can share online, but in the hopper section of “Southern Railway Color Guide to Freight and Passenger Equipment” by James Kincaid is a photo of an articulated hopper (ex-Interstate cars, it appears) in black in ‘66. It’s the only
car I can recall seeing a photo of in this era that combines black and block-style lettering. My guess it was a quick repaint involving patching of the INT lettering, but this seems to run counter to standard Southern practice.
On Jan 17, 2021, at 9:37 AM, Bill Schafer <bill4501@...> wrote:
For what it’s worth, my recollection is that the cars were joined with a solid drawbar and a solid air hose - no glad hands. Also, I do not ever recall seeing “artics” painted black. If anyone has such a color image, please post it. All the
cars I remember seeing were painted red, regardless of the placement of the letters.
—Bill
What I haven’t been able to figure out with these “articulated” cars is how they were coupled. I would assume a drawbar, but photos aren’t clear. How do you designate an A and B end with brake wheels on both? I know the idea was to
cut costs for shipping because it was technically a single-car movement, but still a strange car.
I’ve seen pictures of these cars made from either ex-Interstate hoppers (similar to AAR rib-side hoppers) or rebuilt war-emergency hoppers with the diagonal bracing. Paint schemes also seem pretty varied including both black and red. Some cars
have the big split letters, and some have “SOUTHERN” on the “left” car and the car number on the right.
Dan
Those hybrids were strange looking. Around ‘65 or so I recall seeing one standing under the Gay St. viaduct, and asked a Sou. Carman what they were. His answer was less than printable, likely because I suspect that they would have
a double AB valve and brake systems (Plus eight journals) for one car. I seem to recall that it was a combination of off-set hoppers, permanently coupled. The split lettering was an eye-caitching.
|
|
|
Dan:
I don’t think the concept of joining two 50-T hoppers was based on reduced costs. After the “Big John” case was settled (won), the Southern wanted to offer 100-T tariffs on other commodities. With few 100-T open hoppers available, permanently coupling two 50-T cars was an expedient. More research is needed as no drawing of the drawbars (if used) has been located.
In any case, the paired cars did not last very long. Here is another snippet from a different spreadsheet. Photos of the “articulated”* cars are not common. If anyone has any they can send, we have plenty enough information to do a TIES article.
Ike
*”articulated” is not really a correct term, "permanently coupled” is a better description IMHO.
Sou
|
102819
|
|
3/24/1969
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
recommended for retirement
|
|
Sou
|
102820
|
|
3/24/1969
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
recommended for retirement
|
|
Sou
|
102821
|
|
3/24/1969
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
recommended for retirement
|
|
Sou
|
102822
|
|
4/12/1968
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
In "Report of Equipment Dismantled February 1968"
|
|
Sou
|
102825
|
|
4/12/1968
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
In "Report of Equipment Dismantled February 1968"
|
|
Sou
|
102825
|
|
4/12/1968
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
dismantled during February, 1968
|
|
Sou
|
102826
|
|
2/19/1968
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
Dismantled during January 1968
|
|
Sou
|
102829
|
|
11/1/1967
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
Authorized for retirement at Charlotte
|
|
Sou
|
102830
|
|
3/24/1969
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
recommended for retirement
|
|
Sou
|
102831
|
|
3/24/1969
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
recommended for retirement
|
|
Sou
|
102832
|
|
12/1/1967
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
Authorized for retirement at Sevier, TN
|
|
Sou
|
102832
|
|
2/19/1968
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
Dismantled during January 1968
|
|
Sou
|
102837
|
|
3/24/1969
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
recommended for retirement
|
|
Sou
|
102839
|
|
3/24/1969
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
recommended for retirement
|
|
Sou
|
102842
|
|
3/24/1969
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
recommended for retirement
|
|
Sou
|
102844
|
|
3/24/1969
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
recommended for retirement
|
|
Sou
|
102848
|
|
1/17/1968
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
In Report of Equipment Dismantled December, 1967
|
|
Sou
|
102848
|
|
1/17/1968
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
dismantled during December, 1967
|
|
Sou
|
102849
|
|
3/24/1969
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
recommended for retirement
|
|
Sou
|
102851
|
|
7/2/1970
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
recommended for retirement
|
|
Sou
|
102854
|
|
3/24/1969
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
recommended for retirement
|
|
Sou
|
102857
|
|
7/2/1970
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
recommended for retirement
|
|
Sou
|
102858
|
|
3/15/1971
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
recommended for retirement
|
|
Sou
|
102858
|
|
3/15/1971
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
1 of 277 BO cars recommended for retirement
|
|
Sou
|
102859
|
|
7/2/1970
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
recommended for retirement
|
|
Sou
|
102863
|
|
3/24/1969
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
recommended for retirement
|
|
Sou
|
102864
|
|
12/1/1967
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
Authorized for retirement at Sevier, TN
|
|
Sou
|
102864
|
|
2/19/1968
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
dismantled during January, 1968
|
|
Sou
|
102865
|
|
3/24/1969
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
recommended for retirement
|
|
Sou
|
102866
|
|
3/24/1969
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
recommended for retirement
|
|
Sou
|
102868
|
|
7/2/1970
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
recommended for retirement
|
|
Sou
|
102872
|
|
7/2/1970
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
recommended for retirement
|
|
Sou
|
102878
|
|
3/24/1969
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
recommended for retirement
|
|
Sou
|
102879
|
|
3/24/1969
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
recommended for retirement
|
|
Sou
|
102880
|
|
3/24/1969
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
recommended for retirement
|
|
Sou
|
102880
|
|
3/15/1971
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
recommended for retirement
|
|
Sou
|
102880
|
|
3/15/1971
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
1 of 277 BO cars recommended for retirement
|
|
Sou
|
102888
|
|
3/24/1969
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
recommended for retirement
|
|
Sou
|
102893
|
|
3/15/1971
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
recommended for retirement
|
|
Sou
|
102893
|
|
3/15/1971
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
1 of 277 BO cars recommended for retirement
|
|
Sou
|
102897
|
|
1/17/1968
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
In Report of Equipment Dismantled December, 1967
|
|
Sou
|
102900
|
|
1/17/1968
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
In Report of Equipment Dismantled November, 1967
|
|
What I haven’t been able to figure out with these “articulated” cars is how they were coupled. I would assume a drawbar, but photos aren’t clear. How do you designate an A and B end with brake wheels on both? I know the idea was to cut costs for shipping because
it was technically a single-car movement, but still a strange car.
I’ve seen pictures of these cars made from either ex-Interstate hoppers (similar to AAR rib-side hoppers) or rebuilt war-emergency hoppers with the diagonal bracing. Paint schemes also seem pretty varied including both black and red. Some cars have the
big split letters, and some have “SOUTHERN” on the “left” car and the car number on the right.
Dan
Those hybrids were strange looking. Around ‘65 or so I recall seeing one standing under the Gay St. viaduct, and asked a Sou. Carman what they were. His answer was less than printable, likely because I suspect that they would have a double
AB valve and brake systems (Plus eight journals) for one car. I seem to recall that it was a combination of off-set hoppers, permanently coupled. The split lettering was an eye-caitching.
|
|
|
50-ton aggregate cars were also articulated.
Dick Fisher
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On 1/17/2021 12:29 PM, George
Eichelberger wrote:
Dan: cars
I don’t think the concept of joining two 50-T
hoppers was based on reduced costs. After the “Big John” case
was settled (won), the Southern wanted to offer 100-T tariffs on
other commodities. With few 100-T open hoppers available,
permanently coupling two 50-T cars was an expedient. More
research is needed as no drawing of the drawbars (if used) has
been located.
In any case, the paired cars did not last very long.
Here is another snippet from a different spreadsheet. Photos of
the “articulated”* cars are not common. If anyone has any they
can send, we have plenty enough information to do a TIES
article.
Ike
*”articulated” is not really a correct term,
"permanently coupled” is a better description IMHO.
|
Sou
|
102819
|
|
3/24/1969
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
recommended for
retirement
|
|
|
Sou
|
102820
|
|
3/24/1969
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
recommended for
retirement
|
|
|
Sou
|
102821
|
|
3/24/1969
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
recommended for
retirement
|
|
|
Sou
|
102822
|
|
4/12/1968
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
In "Report of Equipment
Dismantled February 1968"
|
|
|
Sou
|
102825
|
|
4/12/1968
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
In "Report of Equipment
Dismantled February 1968"
|
|
|
Sou
|
102825
|
|
4/12/1968
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
dismantled during
February, 1968
|
|
|
Sou
|
102826
|
|
2/19/1968
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
Dismantled during
January 1968
|
|
|
Sou
|
102829
|
|
11/1/1967
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
Authorized for
retirement at Charlotte
|
|
|
Sou
|
102830
|
|
3/24/1969
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
recommended for
retirement
|
|
|
Sou
|
102831
|
|
3/24/1969
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
recommended for
retirement
|
|
|
Sou
|
102832
|
|
12/1/1967
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
Authorized for
retirement at Sevier, TN
|
|
|
Sou
|
102832
|
|
2/19/1968
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
Dismantled during
January 1968
|
|
|
Sou
|
102837
|
|
3/24/1969
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
recommended for
retirement
|
|
|
Sou
|
102839
|
|
3/24/1969
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
recommended for
retirement
|
|
|
Sou
|
102842
|
|
3/24/1969
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
recommended for
retirement
|
|
|
Sou
|
102844
|
|
3/24/1969
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
recommended for
retirement
|
|
|
Sou
|
102848
|
|
1/17/1968
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
In Report of Equipment
Dismantled December, 1967
|
|
|
Sou
|
102848
|
|
1/17/1968
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
dismantled during
December, 1967
|
|
|
Sou
|
102849
|
|
3/24/1969
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
recommended for
retirement
|
|
|
Sou
|
102851
|
|
7/2/1970
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
recommended for
retirement
|
|
|
Sou
|
102854
|
|
3/24/1969
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
recommended for
retirement
|
|
|
Sou
|
102857
|
|
7/2/1970
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
recommended for
retirement
|
|
|
Sou
|
102858
|
|
3/15/1971
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
recommended for
retirement
|
|
|
Sou
|
102858
|
|
3/15/1971
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
1 of 277 BO cars
recommended for retirement
|
|
|
Sou
|
102859
|
|
7/2/1970
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
recommended for
retirement
|
|
|
Sou
|
102863
|
|
3/24/1969
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
recommended for
retirement
|
|
|
Sou
|
102864
|
|
12/1/1967
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
Authorized for
retirement at Sevier, TN
|
|
|
Sou
|
102864
|
|
2/19/1968
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
dismantled during
January, 1968
|
|
|
Sou
|
102865
|
|
3/24/1969
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
recommended for
retirement
|
|
|
Sou
|
102866
|
|
3/24/1969
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
recommended for
retirement
|
|
|
Sou
|
102868
|
|
7/2/1970
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
recommended for
retirement
|
|
|
Sou
|
102872
|
|
7/2/1970
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
recommended for
retirement
|
|
|
Sou
|
102878
|
|
3/24/1969
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
recommended for
retirement
|
|
|
Sou
|
102879
|
|
3/24/1969
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
recommended for
retirement
|
|
|
Sou
|
102880
|
|
3/24/1969
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
recommended for
retirement
|
|
|
Sou
|
102880
|
|
3/15/1971
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
recommended for
retirement
|
|
|
Sou
|
102880
|
|
3/15/1971
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
1 of 277 BO cars
recommended for retirement
|
|
|
Sou
|
102888
|
|
3/24/1969
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
recommended for
retirement
|
|
|
Sou
|
102893
|
|
3/15/1971
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
recommended for
retirement
|
|
|
Sou
|
102893
|
|
3/15/1971
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
1 of 277 BO cars
recommended for retirement
|
|
|
Sou
|
102897
|
|
1/17/1968
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
In Report of Equipment
Dismantled December, 1967
|
|
|
Sou
|
102900
|
|
1/17/1968
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
In Report of Equipment
Dismantled November, 1967
|
|
What I haven’t been able to figure out with these
“articulated” cars is how they were coupled. I would
assume a drawbar, but photos aren’t clear. How do you
designate an A and B end with brake wheels on both? I know
the idea was to cut costs for shipping because it was
technically a single-car movement, but still a strange
car.
I’ve seen pictures of these cars made from
either ex-Interstate hoppers (similar to AAR rib-side
hoppers) or rebuilt war-emergency hoppers with the
diagonal bracing. Paint schemes also seem pretty varied
including both black and red. Some cars have the big
split letters, and some have “SOUTHERN” on the “left”
car and the car number on the right.
Dan
Those hybrids were strange
looking. Around ‘65 or so I recall seeing one
standing under the Gay St. viaduct, and asked a
Sou. Carman what they were. His answer was less
than printable, likely because I suspect that they
would have a double AB valve and brake systems
(Plus eight journals) for one car. I seem to
recall that it was a combination of off-set
hoppers, permanently coupled. The split lettering
was an eye-caitching.
|
|
|
I don’t know what was used by the Southern to permanently couple (“articulate”) cars but recall that American Steel Foundries (ASF) offered (and may still) a cast steel connector for use between two cars to replace the couplers. This connector allowed for horizontal and vertical curves to the same degree as conventional couplers. This is what I would guess was used. For cars with two handbrakes (one on each end) the Interchange Rules and FRA rules require that the car owner designate the “A” and “B” ends with stenciling. For what it might be worth… Ed Mims Jacksonville, FL
|
|
|
It was my understanding that some of the cars retained their knuckles between the two cars and the cut levers removed.
On Jan 17, 2021, at 12:29 PM, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:
Dan:
I don’t think the concept of joining two 50-T hoppers was based on reduced costs. After the “Big John” case was settled (won), the Southern wanted to offer 100-T tariffs on other commodities. With few 100-T open hoppers available, permanently coupling two 50-T cars was an expedient. More research is needed as no drawing of the drawbars (if used) has been located.
In any case, the paired cars did not last very long. Here is another snippet from a different spreadsheet. Photos of the “articulated”* cars are not common. If anyone has any they can send, we have plenty enough information to do a TIES article.
Ike
*”articulated” is not really a correct term, "permanently coupled” is a better description IMHO.
Sou
|
102819
|
|
3/24/1969
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
recommended for retirement
|
|
Sou
|
102820
|
|
3/24/1969
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
recommended for retirement
|
|
Sou
|
102821
|
|
3/24/1969
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
recommended for retirement
|
|
Sou
|
102822
|
|
4/12/1968
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
In "Report of Equipment Dismantled February 1968"
|
|
Sou
|
102825
|
|
4/12/1968
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
In "Report of Equipment Dismantled February 1968"
|
|
Sou
|
102825
|
|
4/12/1968
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
dismantled during February, 1968
|
|
Sou
|
102826
|
|
2/19/1968
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
Dismantled during January 1968
|
|
Sou
|
102829
|
|
11/1/1967
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
Authorized for retirement at Charlotte
|
|
Sou
|
102830
|
|
3/24/1969
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
recommended for retirement
|
|
Sou
|
102831
|
|
3/24/1969
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
recommended for retirement
|
|
Sou
|
102832
|
|
12/1/1967
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
Authorized for retirement at Sevier, TN
|
|
Sou
|
102832
|
|
2/19/1968
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
Dismantled during January 1968
|
|
Sou
|
102837
|
|
3/24/1969
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
recommended for retirement
|
|
Sou
|
102839
|
|
3/24/1969
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
recommended for retirement
|
|
Sou
|
102842
|
|
3/24/1969
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
recommended for retirement
|
|
Sou
|
102844
|
|
3/24/1969
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
recommended for retirement
|
|
Sou
|
102848
|
|
1/17/1968
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
In Report of Equipment Dismantled December, 1967
|
|
Sou
|
102848
|
|
1/17/1968
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
dismantled during December, 1967
|
|
Sou
|
102849
|
|
3/24/1969
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
recommended for retirement
|
|
Sou
|
102851
|
|
7/2/1970
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
recommended for retirement
|
|
Sou
|
102854
|
|
3/24/1969
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
recommended for retirement
|
|
Sou
|
102857
|
|
7/2/1970
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
recommended for retirement
|
|
Sou
|
102858
|
|
3/15/1971
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
recommended for retirement
|
|
Sou
|
102858
|
|
3/15/1971
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
1 of 277 BO cars recommended for retirement
|
|
Sou
|
102859
|
|
7/2/1970
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
recommended for retirement
|
|
Sou
|
102863
|
|
3/24/1969
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
recommended for retirement
|
|
Sou
|
102864
|
|
12/1/1967
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
Authorized for retirement at Sevier, TN
|
|
Sou
|
102864
|
|
2/19/1968
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
dismantled during January, 1968
|
|
Sou
|
102865
|
|
3/24/1969
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
recommended for retirement
|
|
Sou
|
102866
|
|
3/24/1969
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
recommended for retirement
|
|
Sou
|
102868
|
|
7/2/1970
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
recommended for retirement
|
|
Sou
|
102872
|
|
7/2/1970
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
recommended for retirement
|
|
Sou
|
102878
|
|
3/24/1969
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
recommended for retirement
|
|
Sou
|
102879
|
|
3/24/1969
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
recommended for retirement
|
|
Sou
|
102880
|
|
3/24/1969
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
recommended for retirement
|
|
Sou
|
102880
|
|
3/15/1971
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
recommended for retirement
|
|
Sou
|
102880
|
|
3/15/1971
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
1 of 277 BO cars recommended for retirement
|
|
Sou
|
102888
|
|
3/24/1969
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
recommended for retirement
|
|
Sou
|
102893
|
|
3/15/1971
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
recommended for retirement
|
|
Sou
|
102893
|
|
3/15/1971
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
1 of 277 BO cars recommended for retirement
|
|
Sou
|
102897
|
|
1/17/1968
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
In Report of Equipment Dismantled December, 1967
|
|
Sou
|
102900
|
|
1/17/1968
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
In Report of Equipment Dismantled November, 1967
|
|
What I haven’t been able to figure out with these “articulated” cars is how they were coupled. I would assume a drawbar, but photos aren’t clear. How do you designate an A and B end with brake wheels on both? I know the idea was to cut costs for shipping because
it was technically a single-car movement, but still a strange car.
I’ve seen pictures of these cars made from either ex-Interstate hoppers (similar to AAR rib-side hoppers) or rebuilt war-emergency hoppers with the diagonal bracing. Paint schemes also seem pretty varied including both black and red. Some cars have the
big split letters, and some have “SOUTHERN” on the “left” car and the car number on the right.
Dan
Those hybrids were strange looking. Around ‘65 or so I recall seeing one standing under the Gay St. viaduct, and asked a Sou. Carman what they were. His answer was less than printable, likely because I suspect that they would have a double
AB valve and brake systems (Plus eight journals) for one car. I seem to recall that it was a combination of off-set hoppers, permanently coupled. The split lettering was an eye-caitching.
|
|
|
Ike,
That rationale for joining the cars makes sense to me. As far as the name goes, I guess “articulated” was a way to make it sound more exciting than it really was ;-)
On Jan 17, 2021, at 10:29 AM, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:
Dan:
I don’t think the concept of joining two 50-T hoppers was based on reduced costs. After the “Big John” case was settled (won), the Southern wanted to offer 100-T tariffs on other commodities. With few 100-T open hoppers available, permanently
coupling two 50-T cars was an expedient. More research is needed as no drawing of the drawbars (if used) has been located.
In any case, the paired cars did not last very long. Here is another snippet from a different spreadsheet. Photos of the “articulated”* cars are not common. If anyone has any they can send, we have plenty enough information to do a TIES article.
Ike
*”articulated” is not really a correct term, "permanently coupled” is a better description IMHO.
|
Sou
|
102819
|
|
3/24/1969
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
recommended for retirement
|
|
|
Sou
|
102820
|
|
3/24/1969
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
recommended for retirement
|
|
|
Sou
|
102821
|
|
3/24/1969
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
recommended for retirement
|
|
|
Sou
|
102822
|
|
4/12/1968
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
In "Report of Equipment Dismantled February 1968"
|
|
|
Sou
|
102825
|
|
4/12/1968
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
In "Report of Equipment Dismantled February 1968"
|
|
|
Sou
|
102825
|
|
4/12/1968
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
dismantled during February, 1968
|
|
|
Sou
|
102826
|
|
2/19/1968
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
Dismantled during January 1968
|
|
|
Sou
|
102829
|
|
11/1/1967
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
Authorized for retirement at Charlotte
|
|
|
Sou
|
102830
|
|
3/24/1969
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
recommended for retirement
|
|
|
Sou
|
102831
|
|
3/24/1969
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
recommended for retirement
|
|
|
Sou
|
102832
|
|
12/1/1967
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
Authorized for retirement at Sevier, TN
|
|
|
Sou
|
102832
|
|
2/19/1968
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
Dismantled during January 1968
|
|
|
Sou
|
102837
|
|
3/24/1969
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
recommended for retirement
|
|
|
Sou
|
102839
|
|
3/24/1969
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
recommended for retirement
|
|
|
Sou
|
102842
|
|
3/24/1969
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
recommended for retirement
|
|
|
Sou
|
102844
|
|
3/24/1969
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
recommended for retirement
|
|
|
Sou
|
102848
|
|
1/17/1968
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
In Report of Equipment Dismantled December, 1967
|
|
|
Sou
|
102848
|
|
1/17/1968
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
dismantled during December, 1967
|
|
|
Sou
|
102849
|
|
3/24/1969
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
recommended for retirement
|
|
|
Sou
|
102851
|
|
7/2/1970
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
recommended for retirement
|
|
|
Sou
|
102854
|
|
3/24/1969
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
recommended for retirement
|
|
|
Sou
|
102857
|
|
7/2/1970
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
recommended for retirement
|
|
|
Sou
|
102858
|
|
3/15/1971
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
recommended for retirement
|
|
|
Sou
|
102858
|
|
3/15/1971
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
1 of 277 BO cars recommended for retirement
|
|
|
Sou
|
102859
|
|
7/2/1970
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
recommended for retirement
|
|
|
Sou
|
102863
|
|
3/24/1969
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
recommended for retirement
|
|
|
Sou
|
102864
|
|
12/1/1967
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
Authorized for retirement at Sevier, TN
|
|
|
Sou
|
102864
|
|
2/19/1968
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
dismantled during January, 1968
|
|
|
Sou
|
102865
|
|
3/24/1969
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
recommended for retirement
|
|
|
Sou
|
102866
|
|
3/24/1969
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
recommended for retirement
|
|
|
Sou
|
102868
|
|
7/2/1970
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
recommended for retirement
|
|
|
Sou
|
102872
|
|
7/2/1970
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
recommended for retirement
|
|
|
Sou
|
102878
|
|
3/24/1969
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
recommended for retirement
|
|
|
Sou
|
102879
|
|
3/24/1969
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
recommended for retirement
|
|
|
Sou
|
102880
|
|
3/24/1969
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
recommended for retirement
|
|
|
Sou
|
102880
|
|
3/15/1971
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
recommended for retirement
|
|
|
Sou
|
102880
|
|
3/15/1971
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
1 of 277 BO cars recommended for retirement
|
|
|
Sou
|
102888
|
|
3/24/1969
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
recommended for retirement
|
|
|
Sou
|
102893
|
|
3/15/1971
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
recommended for retirement
|
|
|
Sou
|
102893
|
|
3/15/1971
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
1 of 277 BO cars recommended for retirement
|
|
|
Sou
|
102897
|
|
1/17/1968
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
In Report of Equipment Dismantled December, 1967
|
|
|
Sou
|
102900
|
|
1/17/1968
|
|
articulated hopper car
|
In Report of Equipment Dismantled November, 1967
|
|
What I haven’t been able to figure out with these “articulated” cars is how they were coupled. I would assume a drawbar, but photos aren’t clear. How do you designate an A and B end with brake wheels on both? I know the idea was to
cut costs for shipping because it was technically a single-car movement, but still a strange car.
I’ve seen pictures of these cars made from either ex-Interstate hoppers (similar to AAR rib-side hoppers) or rebuilt war-emergency hoppers with the diagonal bracing. Paint schemes also seem pretty varied including both black and red. Some cars
have the big split letters, and some have “SOUTHERN” on the “left” car and the car number on the right.
Dan
Those hybrids were strange looking. Around ‘65 or so I recall seeing one standing under the Gay St. viaduct, and asked a Sou. Carman what they were. His answer was less than printable, likely because I suspect that they would have
a double AB valve and brake systems (Plus eight journals) for one car. I seem to recall that it was a combination of off-set hoppers, permanently coupled. The split lettering was an eye-caitching.
|
|
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Evan Miller
Thanks for the help! It looks like it'd be fine to mix in some black and repainted INT cars in a 60's era Middlesboro based mine run I'm considering modeling. Being able to mix in Southern Black, Transitional Brown, and Block Brown, all with variety of different types of cars would make for a great train to model! Of course the hardest part of this project is deciding on a year to determine which cars to include and which to leave out. In regard to the Interstate offside hoppers, are there any estimates of how many Southern assigned to INT and how many received the side extensions? I'd love to model a few of the extended side cars. I also noticed there was a shot on Appalachian Railroad Modeling of a normal Interstate offset, but it had peaked ends? I wonder if Southern added them when they were reassigned to the Interstate? Speaking of extended side cars, I've also seen a shot of an extended side war-emergency rebuild. K4 Decals now offers a set designed for the Interstate offsets: https://k4decals.com/collections/hopper-decals/products/interstate-railroad-offset-twin-hopper-white-decal-inth2About the Saluda runaway, the last one was November 14, 1971. I've seen some photos of it on some Southern FB groups. While I couldn't pick out any Interstate cars, I did notice a Central of Georgia rebuilt war-emergency in the mess. The fact that there many Interstate cars in this wreck is proof that even after the Transloader came on the scene, some where still roaming the system. I wonder if these cars where Yellow Balls that escaped or just general service cars that where never Yellow Balls to begin with? Bluford Shops has announced they are doing a run of permanently coupled war emergency rebuilds in N Scale. http://bluford-shops.com/bluford_93_035.htm-Evan Miller
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