locked SD40-2 initial delivery questions


George Eichelberger
 

There are quite a few waybills and shipping notices for Southern diesel deliveries in the SRHA archives. The Monon was used for deliveries from EMD many times using the Monon-Southern line through French Lick. Waybills for locos to Louisville, French Lick, etc. typically did not show them as final destination for the move.

By including delivery to, say, Danville, KY, on a waybill via Louisville, the Southern participated in part of the freight charge. That charge was usually pre-paid by the shipper (as part of the quoted price and with Southern’s approval) and the Southern computed their portion of the shipment as a “discount” on the loco purchase. In the Louisville-Danville example, the locos would be “intercepted” and put in service at Louisville.

In other examples, the final destination on the waybill (“delivered” by the Southern) was in a state with low, or no, sales tax.

Note the attached EMD "shipment notice” for Sou 2329 on Dec. 19, 1968. IHB-Monon to Southern at Louisville was typical, the final destination, Jeffersontown, KY here was probably decided because of the tariff in effect at the time. We have several examples of the calculations the Southern prepared to find the best cost, route and destination for various orders By the late 1960s, deliveries avoided the PC because locos were damaged when PC handled them.

Ike

PS Delivery charges for new equipment were very (!) important factors when Southern was deciding on equipment purchases. PC&F submitted proposals for box cars several times but the cost to move cars across the country priced them out of the competition. Fruit Growers in Alexandria, VA had the best advantage. As both Southern and FGE were Virginia corporations, there was no sales tax.



On Feb 17, 2022, at 8:14 PM, Stuart Thayer via groups.io <StuThayer@...> wrote:

Charlie,
 
Wasn't it true that a lot of the new EMD deliveries to the Southern came down the Monon (later L&N)?  I know I have seen photos of brand new Southern units in SB Monon trains.
 
Stuart Thayer

In a message dated 2/17/2022 11:19:08 AM Eastern Standard Time, charlesspowell@... writes:
 
David,
Southern would typically take receive new units dead in tow, from EMD at Louisville. Since Southern used K&IT terminal in Louisville the new units would continue in tow to Danville, KY where the Mechanical Dept. would inspect and officially take delivery. They would then operate to Chattanooga. As Carl has said on Southern merchandise trains standard power was three SDs or four GPs so the SD40-2 got mixed in pretty quick. One exception was that once they proved  their reliability, solid consists of SD40-2s became standard power on a number of the unit coal trains.
Charlie


Charles Powell
 

Stuart,
You are correct, the new EMDs typically came down on the Monon from Chicago. 

David,
In the 60s through the 80s the SDs 24, 35, 45, 40, and 40-2s could all be found mixed together regularly. The SD9s (and lone SD7) which came from the Central of Georgia and were non-dynamic brake equipped typically worked together in pairs around Atlanta and Birmingham a lot, being used to make heavy transfer runs from Norris or Inman yards to satellite yards or interchange. I do recall seeing the SD7(201?) on the head end of an AGS train heading to Chattanooga once. I imagine it was working its way to Chattanooga for an overhaul. 

Charlie


John Hedrick
 

Normal through train operating practice at that time was 3 SDs or 4 GPs.

John O. Hedrick


Stuart Thayer
 

Charlie,
 
Wasn't it true that a lot of the new EMD deliveries to the Southern came down the Monon (later L&N)?  I know I have seen photos of brand new Southern units in SB Monon trains.
 
Stuart Thayer

In a message dated 2/17/2022 11:19:08 AM Eastern Standard Time, charlesspowell@... writes:
 
David,
Southern would typically take receive new units dead in tow, from EMD at Louisville. Since Southern used K&IT terminal in Louisville the new units would continue in tow to Danville, KY where the Mechanical Dept. would inspect and officially take delivery. They would then operate to Chattanooga. As Carl has said on Southern merchandise trains standard power was three SDs or four GPs so the SD40-2 got mixed in pretty quick. One exception was that once they proved  their reliability, solid consists of SD40-2s became standard power on a number of the unit coal trains.
Charlie


Jason Greene
 

45s sandwiching a 35 or 40 was common from what I’ve seen in pictures. 

Jason Greene 

On Feb 17, 2022, at 5:09 PM, David Friedlander <davidjfriedlander@...> wrote:


Carl, Charlie, and Bob,

Thanks for the clarification on my questions.

Sounds like maybe I'll stick with two SD40-2 and include a lone SD40 (still to be repainted) as my primary 3-unit SD power on my pike. I also have SD9, 24, 35, and 45 power to draw from, but the SD9's will probably work as a pair, the 24's will be with a trainmaster or together, and the 35's/45's may mingle if I can find evidence they did that when I have more time.

Thanks again!
David

On Thu, Feb 17, 2022 at 11:19 AM Charles Powell <charlesspowell@...> wrote:
David,
Southern would typically take receive new units dead in tow, from EMD at Louisville. Since Southern used K&IT terminal in Louisville the new units would continue in tow to Danville, KY where the Mechanical Dept. would inspect and officially take delivery. They would then operate to Chattanooga. As Carl has said on Southern merchandise trains standard power was three SDs or four GPs so the SD40-2 got mixed in pretty quick. One exception was that once they proved  their reliability, solid consists of SD40-2s became standard power on a number of the unit coal trains.
Charlie


David Friedlander
 

Carl, Charlie, and Bob,

Thanks for the clarification on my questions.

Sounds like maybe I'll stick with two SD40-2 and include a lone SD40 (still to be repainted) as my primary 3-unit SD power on my pike. I also have SD9, 24, 35, and 45 power to draw from, but the SD9's will probably work as a pair, the 24's will be with a trainmaster or together, and the 35's/45's may mingle if I can find evidence they did that when I have more time.

Thanks again!
David


On Thu, Feb 17, 2022 at 11:19 AM Charles Powell <charlesspowell@...> wrote:
David,
Southern would typically take receive new units dead in tow, from EMD at Louisville. Since Southern used K&IT terminal in Louisville the new units would continue in tow to Danville, KY where the Mechanical Dept. would inspect and officially take delivery. They would then operate to Chattanooga. As Carl has said on Southern merchandise trains standard power was three SDs or four GPs so the SD40-2 got mixed in pretty quick. One exception was that once they proved  their reliability, solid consists of SD40-2s became standard power on a number of the unit coal trains.
Charlie


Robert Graham
 

Correct on snowplows; SOU SD40-2 3244 was the first SD40-2 with plows, and they continued up to 3328, the highest numbered SD40-2.

Bob Graham 

-----------------------------------------

From: "David Friedlander"
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io
Cc:
Sent: Thursday February 17 2022 1:45:49AM
Subject: [SouthernRailway] SD40-2 initial delivery questions

Hi all,

Looks like 3rd Rail is finalizing orders for their O-Scale SD40-2, which the tooling allows them to accurately do Southern's initial batch of SD40-2, units 3201-3208. I'm teetering between getting two or three units.

Does anyone know if the initial SD40-2 batch was run in pairs or triplets when they first arrived on the Southern? Were any groupings of numbered units specifically ran together for any initial period of time (eg- units 3201-3203 were consisted together for a year)? Were SD40-2's immediately mixed in with SD40's?

Also, just to verify, but I believe only units including and after 3244 had snowplows, right?

Thanks as always,
David Friedlander


Charles Powell
 

David,
Southern would typically take receive new units dead in tow, from EMD at Louisville. Since Southern used K&IT terminal in Louisville the new units would continue in tow to Danville, KY where the Mechanical Dept. would inspect and officially take delivery. They would then operate to Chattanooga. As Carl has said on Southern merchandise trains standard power was three SDs or four GPs so the SD40-2 got mixed in pretty quick. One exception was that once they proved  their reliability, solid consists of SD40-2s became standard power on a number of the unit coal trains.
Charlie


Carl Ardrey
 

Standard was 3-SD's or 4-GP's on manifest trains.  Specific models didn't matter.
CEA

On 02/17/2022 12:45 AM David Friedlander <davidjfriedlander@...> wrote:


Hi all,

Looks like 3rd Rail is finalizing orders for their O-Scale SD40-2, which the tooling allows them to accurately do Southern's initial batch of SD40-2, units 3201-3208. I'm teetering between getting two or three units.

Does anyone know if the initial SD40-2 batch was run in pairs or triplets when they first arrived on the Southern? Were any groupings of numbered units specifically ran together for any initial period of time (eg- units 3201-3203 were consisted together for a year)? Were SD40-2's immediately mixed in with SD40's?

Also, just to verify, but I believe only units including and after 3244 had snowplows, right?

Thanks as always,
David Friedlander


David Friedlander
 

Hi all,

Looks like 3rd Rail is finalizing orders for their O-Scale SD40-2, which the tooling allows them to accurately do Southern's initial batch of SD40-2, units 3201-3208. I'm teetering between getting two or three units.

Does anyone know if the initial SD40-2 batch was run in pairs or triplets when they first arrived on the Southern? Were any groupings of numbered units specifically ran together for any initial period of time (eg- units 3201-3203 were consisted together for a year)? Were SD40-2's immediately mixed in with SD40's?

Also, just to verify, but I believe only units including and after 3244 had snowplows, right?

Thanks as always,
David Friedlander