Topics

moderated Clay hoppers and the "cousin" Chip hop

Sam Smith
 

David, 

I know exactly what you are talking about. But, Mr. Ike said that they were. When I read that, I thought maybe he was talking about the boxcar conversions, but then, I don't know everything. But to me, it would be kind of hard to mistake the two.....

Sam


On Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 8:32 PM, David Payne via Groups.Io
<davidcofga@...> wrote:

From personal observation, I don't think so, but the same "drop bottom ~ ratchet and pawl" arrangement was used on converted forty-foot boxcars (roof removed and sides extended about two feet) in the same mid-sixties period.

These cars had slope sheets installed on the ends toward the first set of drop bottoms and had a rope attached to one end near the top ... how do I know? ...

Interestingly, the end of the B end of the car had an access opening cut in it.  These were just unique cars!

Let me add that in the early days of chip service (late fifties), it wasn't unusual for any 70 ton 3-bay hoppers to be used for chip service.  Central's first "Chip Service" cars were these cars with some even specially lettered for chip service, but it didn't take long before fifty were rebuilt with extended sides.  I think this was done in Columbus, but it could have been in Macon.  CG series 101-150.

DPayne
Georgia


In a message dated 1/13/2020 7:58:10 PM Eastern Standard Time, sam_smith2004@... writes:

These cars were used in wood chip service?



On Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 6:32 PM, David Payne via Groups.Io
<davidcofga@...> wrote:
In a message dated 1/13/2020 3:22:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, blindog@... writes:

The Southern had a bunch of modified 3-bay open hoppers for clay service.  These are the ones with sorta-clamshell doors held closed by chains that were wrapped around spools on the carside.  I gather they mostly were used in the Carolinas.

These cars were also "common" in Georgia in the mid-sixties and early-seventies between the clay pits northwest of Rome to brick manufacturers in the Columbus and Macon areas.

David Payne
Georgia





David Payne
 


Sam,
Ike posted a photo of one with "Chip Service" stenciled on it; which I never saw down in Georgia, but his photo is certainly proof enough.  I've often wondered if hoppers that showed weaknesses that wouldn't support the stenciled rating were down-rated to chip service.  Of course, all the rebuilds and subsequent designs were based on the fact that wood chips filled the capacity before nearly reaching the tonnage rating.
David


In a message dated 1/13/2020 9:50:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, sam_smith2004@... writes:

David, 

I know exactly what you are talking about. But, Mr. Ike said that they were. When I read that, I thought maybe he was talking about the boxcar conversions, but then, I don't know everything. But to me, it would be kind of hard to mistake the two.....

Sam



On Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 8:32 PM, David Payne via Groups.Io
<davidcofga@...> wrote:

From personal observation, I don't think so, but the same "drop bottom ~ ratchet and pawl" arrangement was used on converted forty-foot boxcars (roof removed and sides extended about two feet) in the same mid-sixties period.

These cars had slope sheets installed on the ends toward the first set of drop bottoms and had a rope attached to one end near the top ... how do I know? ...

Interestingly, the end of the B end of the car had an access opening cut in it.  These were just unique cars!

Let me add that in the early days of chip service (late fifties), it wasn't unusual for any 70 ton 3-bay hoppers to be used for chip service.  Central's first "Chip Service" cars were these cars with some even specially lettered for chip service, but it didn't take long before fifty were rebuilt with extended sides.  I think this was done in Columbus, but it could have been in Macon.  CG series 101-150.

DPayne
Georgia


In a message dated 1/13/2020 7:58:10 PM Eastern Standard Time, sam_smith2004@... writes:

These cars were used in wood chip service?



On Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 6:32 PM, David Payne via Groups.Io
<davidcofga@...> wrote:
In a message dated 1/13/2020 3:22:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, blindog@... writes:

The Southern had a bunch of modified 3-bay open hoppers for clay service.  These are the ones with sorta-clamshell doors held closed by chains that were wrapped around spools on the carside.  I gather they mostly were used in the Carolinas.

These cars were also "common" in Georgia in the mid-sixties and early-seventies between the clay pits northwest of Rome to brick manufacturers in the Columbus and Macon areas.

David Payne
Georgia





Warren Calloway
 



On January 13, 2020, at 9:58 PM, "David Payne via Groups.Io" <davidcofga@...> wrote:



Sam,
Ike posted a photo of one with "Chip Service" stenciled on it; which I never saw down in Georgia, but his photo is certainly proof enough.  I've often wondered if hoppers that showed weaknesses that wouldn't support the stenciled rating were down-rated to chip service.  Of course, all the rebuilds and subsequent designs were based on the fact that wood chips filled the capacity before nearly reaching the tonnage rating.
David


In a message dated 1/13/2020 9:50:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, sam_smith2004=yahoo.com@groups.io writes:

David, 

I know exactly what you are talking about. But, Mr. Ike said that they were. When I read that, I thought maybe he was talking about the boxcar conversions, but then, I don't know everything. But to me, it would be kind of hard to mistake the two.....

Sam



On Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 8:32 PM, David Payne via Groups.Io
<davidcofga=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

From personal observation, I don't think so, but the same "drop bottom ~ ratchet and pawl" arrangement was used on converted forty-foot boxcars (roof removed and sides extended about two feet) in the same mid-sixties period.

These cars had slope sheets installed on the ends toward the first set of drop bottoms and had a rope attached to one end near the top ... how do I know? ...

Interestingly, the end of the B end of the car had an access opening cut in it.  These were just unique cars!

Let me add that in the early days of chip service (late fifties), it wasn't unusual for any 70 ton 3-bay hoppers to be used for chip service.  Central's first "Chip Service" cars were these cars with some even specially lettered for chip service, but it didn't take long before fifty were rebuilt with extended sides.  I think this was done in Columbus, but it could have been in Macon.  CG series 101-150.

DPayne
Georgia


In a message dated 1/13/2020 7:58:10 PM Eastern Standard Time, sam_smith2004=yahoo.com@groups.io writes:

These cars were used in wood chip service?



On Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 6:32 PM, David Payne via Groups.Io
<davidcofga=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
In a message dated 1/13/2020 3:22:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, blindog@... writes:

The Southern had a bunch of modified 3-bay open hoppers for clay service.  These are the ones with sorta-clamshell doors held closed by chains that were wrapped around spools on the carside.  I gather they mostly were used in the Carolinas.

These cars were also "common" in Georgia in the mid-sixties and early-seventies between the clay pits northwest of Rome to brick manufacturers in the Columbus and Macon areas.

David Payne
Georgia





A&Y Dave in MD
 

How early were these hoppers in service?   When were they taking over for the Seley type composite hoppers that I understand were also used in clay service along the CF line?

Dave



--
David Bott

Sent from David Bott's desktop PC

Sam Smith
 

David,
I guess I missed the photograph. Well, I presume that's why we should never say never when it comes to the prototype railroads. It does make me wonder if it was a "short term" solution until the bigger cars became available. 
Anyway, thanks for the information.

Sam


On Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 11:12 PM, A&Y Dave in MD
<dbott@...> wrote:
How early were these hoppers in service?   When were they taking over for the Seley type composite hoppers that I understand were also used in clay service along the CF line?

Dave



--
David Bott

Sent from David Bott's desktop PC

David Payne
 


Sam,
I know what you mean.  And as I get older I always add, "As I recall ..."
David


In a message dated 1/13/2020 11:19:09 PM Eastern Standard Time, sam_smith2004@... writes:

David,
I guess I missed the photograph. Well, I presume that's why we should never say never when it comes to the prototype railroads. It does make me wonder if it was a "short term" solution until the bigger cars became available.
Anyway, thanks for the information.

Sam



On Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 11:12 PM, A&Y Dave in MD
<dbott@...> wrote:

How early were these hoppers in service?   When were they taking over for the Seley type composite hoppers that I understand were also used in clay service along the CF line?

Dave



--
David Bott

Sent from David Bott's desktop PC

Sam Smith
 

Oh wow! I just found and looked over the picture that Mr. Ike posted. Judging by the cars ahead of and behind this mystery "clay to chip" hopper, this car was in this service after the Norfolk Southern disaster..........I mean merger! This really makes me scratch my head, so to speak. I would have thought, without looking it up, that these cars (the whole series) would have been on their last leg by 1983. They had to be going on 40 years old by then. And, as was pointed out, a car that size would never get anywhere near max cubic capacity carrying wood chips or saw dust. But then again, that is one of those dying commodities where the railroads are concerned. It's been almost 10 years since I have seen wood chips on the rails around here. There was a time though, when didn't hardly a train move without at least a half dozen chip hoppers in the consist.
Oh for the "good old days"!

Sam


On Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 11:23 PM, David Payne via Groups.Io
<davidcofga@...> wrote:

Sam,
I know what you mean.  And as I get older I always add, "As I recall ..."
David


In a message dated 1/13/2020 11:19:09 PM Eastern Standard Time, sam_smith2004@... writes:

David,
I guess I missed the photograph. Well, I presume that's why we should never say never when it comes to the prototype railroads. It does make me wonder if it was a "short term" solution until the bigger cars became available.
Anyway, thanks for the information.

Sam



On Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 11:12 PM, A&Y Dave in MD
<dbott@...> wrote:

How early were these hoppers in service?   When were they taking over for the Seley type composite hoppers that I understand were also used in clay service along the CF line?

Dave



--
David Bott

Sent from David Bott's desktop PC

Kevin von der Lippe
 

Dave,

 

SR converted 70 cars from their 70 Ton 3-bay hoppers in 1956.

 

Kevin von der Lippe

Oak Ridge, NC

George Eichelberger
 

All:

This is a shameless ad for SRHA’s three-book set Southern Railway Freight Car Diagrams. SRHA has sold hundreds of copies over the years but the current printing is almost gone (more are not planned at this time). They are available on the SRHA web site (www.srha.net) in the “Grab” section. Because the SRHA set contains pages from multiple originals, it is more comprehensive than any set ever published by the railroad.

We will be mailing Grab orders at the work session this weekend. Orders received this week should go out quickly.

Page H-3201, showing the clay hoppers is attached. The books are basic, and most important, for anyone interested in Southern Railway freight equipment.

Ike


On Jan 14, 2020, at 9:11 AM, Kevin von der Lippe <kevin.vonderlippe@...> wrote:

Dave,
 
SR converted 70 cars from their 70 Ton 3-bay hoppers in 1956.
 
Kevin von der Lippe
Oak Ridge, NC

D. Scott Chatfield
 

Thanks guys for the answers and pics.  Some serious weathering projects there!

I assume the reason for the "clamshell" doors is regular coal car doors wouldn't be tight enough to keep wet clay from leaking out.


Scott Chatfield

Felix Freeman
 

I worked in the Mechanical Department and was at Greensboro from the late 1970's to 1995.  We had a collection of clay hoppers in service on the A&Y.  This is the line from Greensboro to Sanford.  Clay was loaded at the Gulf clay pits and moved to Boren Brick in Pleasant Garden.  For the most part the cars were in captive service between those two points.  I was told by the Sales Department that revenue was very good for this short haul.  For the most part the cars never came to the yard at Pomona (Greensboro).  There was a problem handling these cars in the yard.  When they were switched and handled, clay would be knocked loose and fall to the ground.  When this clay became wet it would be slippery and cause poor footing.  Reworking yard tracks and keeping these cars out of the yard took care of that problem.  As these cars were not inspected by the Mechanical Department on a daily basis we made it a point to regularly run the Road Truck down the branch to inspect them, do light repairs and oil the friction bearings.  Cut levers, grab irons, sill steps, car bodies and angle cocks all took a beating in this service.  The agents at Liberty and the train crew did an outstanding job in looking out for problems and would route cars in need of repair to Pomona or let us know to do road repairs.  Workers at the clay pit and people at Boren did a good job in their handling.  These cars were in this service when I came to Greensboro and were still in service when I left.  There was a spur track off of the south end of our RIP track on which we kept two of these cars for door repairs.  We also would redo the stenciling and car numbers and spray paint the worst areas..  A complete paint job was out of the question. It was not well known by a lot of people on the railroad that these cars even existed.  On occasions when we would have visitors from our department (and others) and when these people saw the clay hoppers the first words out of their mouths would be "scrap it".  I had to do a lot of quick talking to explain that there was a need for these cars.  Sales Department people at Greensboro took a dim view toward anyone who wanted to do away with them.  There was a sales lady who would fight anyone who dared to scrap one.   At one time we did get some relief.  One of our visitors who had the authority arranged to have a few cars rotated to Coster Shop for program work.  I was reluctant to ask to get authority to send them to a big shop for heavy repair.  I was worried that if I sent one away someone might want to scrap it instead of fixing it.    This included body and door work, a paint.job and conversion to roller bearings.  This did not last long and we were soon back to where we started.  Coster did began to send us material to rework the doors.  The problem was that no two doors were alike and each had to be fabricated.  I kept a file in my office on these cars.  I had a list of all of the cars that I knew of that were on the branch and would record when they were serviced.  We would add to the list as we encountered them on our road trips.   At times cars would get out of their regular cycle.  There was a brick plant at Roseboro, NC on CSX where they went.  I think that it was a Boren operation.  At times we would see where Hamlet did repacks and air work. Roseboro is on the former ACL portion of the A&Y and is just east of Fayetteville.  There was another brick plant at or near Blacksburg, SC to where they would venture.  It too was a Boren operation.  The cars did well on the low speed Sanford Local. However it would give me restless moments to think of them on the main line.  I don't remember of any hot boxes that we had.  We did have door chains to break but never lost any loads or be derailed.  It is interesting to note that there was one of these cars that was stenciled "When empty return to FEC for sugar cane loading".  Boren employees were very satisfied with the cars.  Sales people at Greensboro were happy with the business that they provided.  We in the Mechanical Department were glad that they provided work for us.  It was good local business that contributed to paying our way.  I am not  sure how long they lasted after I left Greensboro.  I did have a few conversations with the sales people after I left.  Years later and after I had retired was when I had my first encounter with the the one that is at Spencer.  I had no idea that it was there and had been preserved.  It was like running into an old friend.                     


On Tue, Jan 14, 2020 at 3:55 PM D. Scott Chatfield <blindog@...> wrote:
Thanks guys for the answers and pics.  Some serious weathering projects there!

I assume the reason for the "clamshell" doors is regular coal car doors wouldn't be tight enough to keep wet clay from leaking out.


Scott Chatfield