locked Heater Car 50 at TVRM?


Rob Wingo
 

Anyone,

 

Is the heater car HC-50  or a mid-train radio car or a transfer caboose preserved at TVRM?  I am interested in modeling them.

 

Thanks,

Rob


TIM ANDREWS
 

There is a heater car that appears to be made from an express box car.  It has a 900000 number so I don't know for sure that it is HC-50.

Tim Andrews

On Wednesday, March 10, 2021, 06:30:34 PM EST, Rob Wingo <robertawingo@...> wrote:


Anyone,

 

Is the heater car HC-50  or a mid-train radio car or a transfer caboose preserved at TVRM?  I am interested in modeling them.

 

Thanks,

Rob


Rob Wingo
 

Thanks for the info.

 

From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io> On Behalf Of TIM ANDREWS
Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2021 9:53 PM
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Heater Car 50 at TVRM?

 

There is a heater car that appears to be made from an express box car.  It has a 900000 number so I don't know for sure that it is HC-50.

 

Tim Andrews

 

On Wednesday, March 10, 2021, 06:30:34 PM EST, Rob Wingo <robertawingo@...> wrote:

 

 

Anyone,

 

Is the heater car HC-50  or a mid-train radio car or a transfer caboose preserved at TVRM?  I am interested in modeling them.

 

Thanks,

Rob


Charles Powell
 

If my memory is correct, when the heater car first showed up in Chattanooga and was loaned to TVRM for supplying steam to the cars that were stored at Terminal Station it was HC-50. At some point  it went to the Chattanooga Diesel shop and renumbered into a 900000 number. 960600 maybe? There was one diesel powered trip to Huntsville that the car was used on in the 70s.
Charlie


Rob Wingo
 

That solves it!

 

Thanks,

Rob

 

From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io> On Behalf Of Charles Powell
Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2021 10:09 AM
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Heater Car 50 at TVRM?

 

If my memory is correct, when the heater car first showed up in Chattanooga and was loaned to TVRM for supplying steam to the cars that were stored at Terminal Station it was HC-50. At some point  it went to the Chattanooga Diesel shop and renumbered into a 900000 number. 960600 maybe? There was one diesel powered trip to Huntsville that the car was used on in the 70s.
Charlie


Felix Freeman
 

Back in the 70s Southern ran "School Boy Patrols" out of Atlanta to Washington DC.  These were week end events in which various school systems in the Atlanta area would send middle schoolers to DC by train.  These were enormous undertakings.  A typical train would be 20+ cars with 4 units.  Needless to say this put a strain on equipment supply.  Equipment on regular trains was cut back.  Most spare equipment was put in service.  Pegram Shop was responsible to supply motive power.  One year someone at Pegram came up with the brilliant idea to run GP38s with a heater car.  We did this and it worked quite well.  We were very proud of what we had done. However the next day after the train got back we were advised that GP38 would not fit thru the DC tunnel and we were never to do it again.  This heater car was one made from the FT B units.  I don't remember the number.  I do have a photo of the train somewhere.       


On Thu, Mar 11, 2021 at 10:13 AM Rob Wingo <robertawingo@...> wrote:

That solves it!

 

Thanks,

Rob

 

From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io> On Behalf Of Charles Powell
Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2021 10:09 AM
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Heater Car 50 at TVRM?

 

If my memory is correct, when the heater car first showed up in Chattanooga and was loaned to TVRM for supplying steam to the cars that were stored at Terminal Station it was HC-50. At some point  it went to the Chattanooga Diesel shop and renumbered into a 900000 number. 960600 maybe? There was one diesel powered trip to Huntsville that the car was used on in the 70s.
Charlie


Rob Wingo
 

Too bad, was a great idea!

 

That seems really odd a GP-38 wouldn’t fit through the 1st street tunnel.  It was tight but why a GP38?  How could they be bigger than the Amtrak SDP40Fs?

Length  72 ft 4 in (22.0 m)

Width    10 ft 4 in (3.1 m)

But mysteriously no height?

 

Well I had to research some and a GP-38-2 is

Length  59 ft 2 in (18.03 m)

Width    10 ft 4.5 in (3.16 m)

Height   15 ft 4 in (4.67 m) –

 

I guess it is too tall….

 

You know though after looking at the pictures, the SDP40F has a curvature to the roofline and the Washington tunnel is very rounded at the top, so maybe that’s the reason.

 

Wikipedia says the tunnel height is 17’ and width 16’.  I have seen pictures where an E8 filled it up.

 

E8 dimensions:

Length  70 ft 3 in (21.41 m)

Width    10 ft 7 1⁄2 in (3.24 m)

Height   14 ft 7 in (4.45 m)

 

 

 

 

From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io> On Behalf Of Felix Freeman
Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2021 10:49 AM
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Heater Car 50 at TVRM?

 

Back in the 70s Southern ran "School Boy Patrols" out of Atlanta to Washington DC.  These were week end events in which various school systems in the Atlanta area would send middle schoolers to DC by train.  These were enormous undertakings.  A typical train would be 20+ cars with 4 units.  Needless to say this put a strain on equipment supply.  Equipment on regular trains was cut back.  Most spare equipment was put in service.  Pegram Shop was responsible to supply motive power.  One year someone at Pegram came up with the brilliant idea to run GP38s with a heater car.  We did this and it worked quite well.  We were very proud of what we had done. However the next day after the train got back we were advised that GP38 would not fit thru the DC tunnel and we were never to do it again.  This heater car was one made from the FT B units.  I don't remember the number.  I do have a photo of the train somewhere.       

 

On Thu, Mar 11, 2021 at 10:13 AM Rob Wingo <robertawingo@...> wrote:

That solves it!

 

Thanks,

Rob

 

From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io> On Behalf Of Charles Powell
Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2021 10:09 AM
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Heater Car 50 at TVRM?

 

If my memory is correct, when the heater car first showed up in Chattanooga and was loaned to TVRM for supplying steam to the cars that were stored at Terminal Station it was HC-50. At some point  it went to the Chattanooga Diesel shop and renumbered into a 900000 number. 960600 maybe? There was one diesel powered trip to Huntsville that the car was used on in the 70s.
Charlie


Jason Greene
 

I was thinking the same thing about the 38-2. Seems like anything out of the norm for Southern passenger trains didn’t fit through that tunnel. 

Jason Greene 

On Mar 11, 2021, at 11:36 AM, Rob Wingo <robertawingo@...> wrote:



Too bad, was a great idea!

 

That seems really odd a GP-38 wouldn’t fit through the 1st street tunnel.  It was tight but why a GP38?  How could they be bigger than the Amtrak SDP40Fs?

Length  72 ft 4 in (22.0 m)

Width    10 ft 4 in (3.1 m)

But mysteriously no height?

 

Well I had to research some and a GP-38-2 is

Length  59 ft 2 in (18.03 m)

Width    10 ft 4.5 in (3.16 m)

Height   15 ft 4 in (4.67 m) –

 

I guess it is too tall….

 

You know though after looking at the pictures, the SDP40F has a curvature to the roofline and the Washington tunnel is very rounded at the top, so maybe that’s the reason.

 

Wikipedia says the tunnel height is 17’ and width 16’.  I have seen pictures where an E8 filled it up.

 

E8 dimensions:

Length  70 ft 3 in (21.41 m)

Width    10 ft 7 1⁄2 in (3.24 m)

Height   14 ft 7 in (4.45 m)

 

 

 

<image001.png>

 

From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io> On Behalf Of Felix Freeman
Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2021 10:49 AM
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Heater Car 50 at TVRM?

 

Back in the 70s Southern ran "School Boy Patrols" out of Atlanta to Washington DC.  These were week end events in which various school systems in the Atlanta area would send middle schoolers to DC by train.  These were enormous undertakings.  A typical train would be 20+ cars with 4 units.  Needless to say this put a strain on equipment supply.  Equipment on regular trains was cut back.  Most spare equipment was put in service.  Pegram Shop was responsible to supply motive power.  One year someone at Pegram came up with the brilliant idea to run GP38s with a heater car.  We did this and it worked quite well.  We were very proud of what we had done. However the next day after the train got back we were advised that GP38 would not fit thru the DC tunnel and we were never to do it again.  This heater car was one made from the FT B units.  I don't remember the number.  I do have a photo of the train somewhere.       

 

On Thu, Mar 11, 2021 at 10:13 AM Rob Wingo <robertawingo@...> wrote:

That solves it!

 

Thanks,

Rob

 

From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io> On Behalf Of Charles Powell
Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2021 10:09 AM
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Heater Car 50 at TVRM?

 

If my memory is correct, when the heater car first showed up in Chattanooga and was loaned to TVRM for supplying steam to the cars that were stored at Terminal Station it was HC-50. At some point  it went to the Chattanooga Diesel shop and renumbered into a 900000 number. 960600 maybe? There was one diesel powered trip to Huntsville that the car was used on in the 70s.
Charlie


Bill Schafer
 

Felix is talking about pre-Amtrak or early-Amtrak days. Some years after Amtrak began operating, in the 1980s I think, they got some federal money to enlarge the clearances in the Capitol Hill tunnels - not quite to double stack standards, but certainly to Superliner standards. Since then, VRE bi-level commuter cars and Amtrak Superliners have been common sights on Washington Union Station’s lower level. 

In 2003, Norfolk Southern operated a series of intermodal test trains right through Union Station behind four GP40s. By that time there was no question of clearance problems in the tunnels. This was when David Gunn was Amtrak’s president, who was willing to consider Amtrak hosting limited NS intermodal trains on the Northeast Corridor. His principal NS counterpart was Jim McClellan, who had collaborated with Gunn in the mid-1960s, when Jim was with NYC and David was with AT&SF, to operate a coast-to-coast intermodal train, from downtown Manhattan to Los Angeles. That train still holds the transcontinental U.S. speed record for any train, freight or passenger. Here’s the first NS test train descending the grade to the tunnels on the lower level.

Here’s another view taken from the platform of the old Railway Express Building on the other side of the tracks. Ira Silverman photographer.

And finally, here’s a view from the platform at the mouth of the tunnel. By Dave Snyder. 

—Bill

On Mar 11, 2021, at 11:47, Jason Greene <jason.p.greene@...> wrote:

I was thinking the same thing about the 38-2. Seems like anything out of the norm for Southern passenger trains didn’t fit through that tunnel. 

Jason Greene 

On Mar 11, 2021, at 11:36 AM, Rob Wingo <robertawingo@...> wrote:


Too bad, was a great idea!
 
That seems really odd a GP-38 wouldn’t fit through the 1st street tunnel.  It was tight but why a GP38?  How could they be bigger than the Amtrak SDP40Fs?
Length  72 ft 4 in (22.0 m)
Width    10 ft 4 in (3.1 m)
But mysteriously no height?
 
Well I had to research some and a GP-38-2 is
Length  59 ft 2 in (18.03 m)
Width    10 ft 4.5 in (3.16 m)
Height   15 ft 4 in (4.67 m) – 
 
I guess it is too tall….
 
You know though after looking at the pictures, the SDP40F has a curvature to the roofline and the Washington tunnel is very rounded at the top, so maybe that’s the reason.
 
Wikipedia says the tunnel height is 17’ and width 16’.  I have seen pictures where an E8 filled it up.
 
E8 dimensions:
Length  70 ft 3 in (21.41 m)
Width    10 ft 7 1⁄2 in (3.24 m)
Height   14 ft 7 in (4.45 m)
 
 
 

<image001.png>

 
From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io> On Behalf Of Felix Freeman
Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2021 10:49 AM
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Heater Car 50 at TVRM?
 
Back in the 70s Southern ran "School Boy Patrols" out of Atlanta to Washington DC.  These were week end events in which various school systems in the Atlanta area would send middle schoolers to DC by train.  These were enormous undertakings.  A typical train would be 20+ cars with 4 units.  Needless to say this put a strain on equipment supply.  Equipment on regular trains was cut back.  Most spare equipment was put in service.  Pegram Shop was responsible to supply motive power.  One year someone at Pegram came up with the brilliant idea to run GP38s with a heater car.  We did this and it worked quite well.  We were very proud of what we had done. However the next day after the train got back we were advised that GP38 would not fit thru the DC tunnel and we were never to do it again.  This heater car was one made from the FT B units.  I don't remember the number.  I do have a photo of the train somewhere.       
 
On Thu, Mar 11, 2021 at 10:13 AM Rob Wingo <robertawingo@...> wrote:
That solves it!
 
Thanks,
Rob
 
From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io> On Behalf Of Charles Powell
Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2021 10:09 AM
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Heater Car 50 at TVRM?
 
If my memory is correct, when the heater car first showed up in Chattanooga and was loaned to TVRM for supplying steam to the cars that were stored at Terminal Station it was HC-50. At some point  it went to the Chattanooga Diesel shop and renumbered into a 900000 number. 960600 maybe? There was one diesel powered trip to Huntsville that the car was used on in the 70s.
Charlie 



Dick Fisher
 

The Heater Cars were first used on Alco road switchers. The Alcos were used as headend power for passenger trains to ferry them from Spencer to Pegram shop for maintenance.

On 3/11/2021 12:23 PM, Bill Schafer wrote:
Felix is talking about pre-Amtrak or early-Amtrak days. Some years after Amtrak began operating, in the 1980s I think, they got some federal money to enlarge the clearances in the Capitol Hill tunnels - not quite to double stack standards, but certainly to Superliner standards. Since then, VRE bi-level commuter cars and Amtrak Superliners have been common sights on Washington Union Station’s lower level. 

In 2003, Norfolk Southern operated a series of intermodal test trains right through Union Station behind four GP40s. By that time there was no question of clearance problems in the tunnels. This was when David Gunn was Amtrak’s president, who was willing to consider Amtrak hosting limited NS intermodal trains on the Northeast Corridor. His principal NS counterpart was Jim McClellan, who had collaborated with Gunn in the mid-1960s, when Jim was with NYC and David was with AT&SF, to operate a coast-to-coast intermodal train, from downtown Manhattan to Los Angeles. That train still holds the transcontinental U.S. speed record for any train, freight or passenger. Here’s the first NS test train descending the grade to the tunnels on the lower level.

Here’s another view taken from the platform of the old Railway Express Building on the other side of the tracks. Ira Silverman photographer.

And finally, here’s a view from the platform at the mouth of the tunnel. By Dave Snyder. 

—Bill

On Mar 11, 2021, at 11:47, Jason Greene <jason.p.greene@...> wrote:

I was thinking the same thing about the 38-2. Seems like anything out of the norm for Southern passenger trains didn’t fit through that tunnel. 

Jason Greene 

On Mar 11, 2021, at 11:36 AM, Rob Wingo <robertawingo@...> wrote:


Too bad, was a great idea!
 
That seems really odd a GP-38 wouldn’t fit through the 1st street tunnel.  It was tight but why a GP38?  How could they be bigger than the Amtrak SDP40Fs?
Length  72 ft 4 in (22.0 m)
Width    10 ft 4 in (3.1 m)
But mysteriously no height?
 
Well I had to research some and a GP-38-2 is
Length  59 ft 2 in (18.03 m)
Width    10 ft 4.5 in (3.16 m)
Height   15 ft 4 in (4.67 m) – 
 
I guess it is too tall….
 
You know though after looking at the pictures, the SDP40F has a curvature to the roofline and the Washington tunnel is very rounded at the top, so maybe that’s the reason.
 
Wikipedia says the tunnel height is 17’ and width 16’.  I have seen pictures where an E8 filled it up.
 
E8 dimensions:
Length  70 ft 3 in (21.41 m)
Width    10 ft 7 1⁄2 in (3.24 m)
Height   14 ft 7 in (4.45 m)
 
 
 
<image001.png>

 
From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io> On Behalf Of Felix Freeman
Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2021 10:49 AM
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Heater Car 50 at TVRM?
 
Back in the 70s Southern ran "School Boy Patrols" out of Atlanta to Washington DC.  These were week end events in which various school systems in the Atlanta area would send middle schoolers to DC by train.  These were enormous undertakings.  A typical train would be 20+ cars with 4 units.  Needless to say this put a strain on equipment supply.  Equipment on regular trains was cut back.  Most spare equipment was put in service.  Pegram Shop was responsible to supply motive power.  One year someone at Pegram came up with the brilliant idea to run GP38s with a heater car.  We did this and it worked quite well.  We were very proud of what we had done. However the next day after the train got back we were advised that GP38 would not fit thru the DC tunnel and we were never to do it again.  This heater car was one made from the FT B units.  I don't remember the number.  I do have a photo of the train somewhere.       
 
On Thu, Mar 11, 2021 at 10:13 AM Rob Wingo <robertawingo@...> wrote:
That solves it!
 
Thanks,
Rob
 
From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io> On Behalf Of Charles Powell
Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2021 10:09 AM
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Heater Car 50 at TVRM?
 
If my memory is correct, when the heater car first showed up in Chattanooga and was loaned to TVRM for supplying steam to the cars that were stored at Terminal Station it was HC-50. At some point  it went to the Chattanooga Diesel shop and renumbered into a 900000 number. 960600 maybe? There was one diesel powered trip to Huntsville that the car was used on in the 70s.
Charlie 


TIM ANDREWS
 

Charlie's memory is pretty good.

Here is the car in storage in Chattanooga

Inline image

If you look closely you can see the old number under the new:

Inline image







On Thursday, March 11, 2021, 10:08:45 AM EST, Charles Powell <charlesspowell@...> wrote:


If my memory is correct, when the heater car first showed up in Chattanooga and was loaned to TVRM for supplying steam to the cars that were stored at Terminal Station it was HC-50. At some point  it went to the Chattanooga Diesel shop and renumbered into a 900000 number. 960600 maybe? There was one diesel powered trip to Huntsville that the car was used on in the 70s.
Charlie


Rob Wingo
 

Great pictures.  Are those porthole windows?  Does anyone make porthole windows?  I might try and do the flange on my cheap 3D printer and see.

Thanks!

Sent from Rob's iPhone Xs

On Mar 11, 2021, at 4:31 PM, TIM ANDREWS <ANDREWSTIM@...> wrote:


Charlie's memory is pretty good.

Here is the car in storage in Chattanooga

<1615496962080blob.jpg>

If you look closely you can see the old number under the new:

<1615497014123blob.jpg>








On Thursday, March 11, 2021, 10:08:45 AM EST, Charles Powell <charlesspowell@...> wrote:


If my memory is correct, when the heater car first showed up in Chattanooga and was loaned to TVRM for supplying steam to the cars that were stored at Terminal Station it was HC-50. At some point  it went to the Chattanooga Diesel shop and renumbered into a 900000 number. 960600 maybe? There was one diesel powered trip to Huntsville that the car was used on in the 70s.
Charlie
<1615496962080blob.jpg>
<1615497014123blob.jpg>


TIM ANDREWS
 

Yes they are porthole windows. It might be easier to cut them out of the shell from an E or F unit.


On Thu, Mar 11, 2021 at 5:07 PM, Rob Wingo
<robertawingo@...> wrote:
Great pictures.  Are those porthole windows?  Does anyone make porthole windows?  I might try and do the flange on my cheap 3D printer and see.

Thanks!

Sent from Rob's iPhone Xs

On Mar 11, 2021, at 4:31 PM, TIM ANDREWS <ANDREWSTIM@...> wrote:


Charlie's memory is pretty good.

Here is the car in storage in Chattanooga

<1615496962080blob.jpg>

If you look closely you can see the old number under the new:

<1615497014123blob.jpg>








On Thursday, March 11, 2021, 10:08:45 AM EST, Charles Powell <charlesspowell@...> wrote:


If my memory is correct, when the heater car first showed up in Chattanooga and was loaned to TVRM for supplying steam to the cars that were stored at Terminal Station it was HC-50. At some point  it went to the Chattanooga Diesel shop and renumbered into a 900000 number. 960600 maybe? There was one diesel powered trip to Huntsville that the car was used on in the 70s.
Charlie
<1615496962080blob.jpg>
<1615497014123blob.jpg>


George Eichelberger
 

The trucks, and length of Sou 960600 point to it being one of the Southern’s 50’ express box cars 3275-3299. All were standard 50’ box cars modified for express service and eventually restored as box cars. I cannot locate the records on them but I’m reasonably sure all were un-modified when they returned to general freight service.

That makes the car at TVRM really (!) unusual. It still has express car trucks and even the marker light holder on the corner (closest to the camera in Tim’s photo) that confirms what it was. It is possible a pair of express trucks were put back under the car for its time in heater service but that does not seem likely.

Tim….what other “gems” does TVRM have hiding out in the woods at Enterprise South?

Ike

One of the newest gems at TVRM is NS office car 8, ex Southern OC-21, ex Pullman Point Richmond. It is about to go into the shop at East Chattanooga to be updated (electrical and holding tanks) and backdated to its 1956 appearance…including Southern green paint, of course. “Modeling” rolling stock in 12” - 1’ scale take s a lot of effort and money. Please consider making a donation to TVRM to help with all its preservation and maintenance work. If people don’t help, things like OC-21 and 960600 will eventually become unwanted scrap.


On Mar 11, 2021, at 4:10 PM, TIM ANDREWS <ANDREWSTIM@...> wrote:

Charlie's memory is pretty good.

Here is the car in storage in Chattanooga

<1615496962080blob.jpg>

If you look closely you can see the old number under the new:

<1615497014123blob.jpg>







On Thursday, March 11, 2021, 10:08:45 AM EST, Charles Powell <charlesspowell@...> wrote:


If my memory is correct, when the heater car first showed up in Chattanooga and was loaned to TVRM for supplying steam to the cars that were stored at Terminal Station it was HC-50. At some point  it went to the Chattanooga Diesel shop and renumbered into a 900000 number. 960600 maybe? There was one diesel powered trip to Huntsville that the car was used on in the 70s.
Charlie
<1615496962080blob.jpg><1615497014123blob.jpg>


Bill Schafer
 

Here’s what they looked like in service. The conversion to passenger service came fairly late in the game - 1951, at Hayne. They were converted from 50’ freight boxcars built by Mt. Vernon Car in 1938. A free TIES Magazine to the first person who posts a photo of one of these behind steam in Southern Railway regular service. 

—Bill



On Mar 11, 2021, at 18:05, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:

The trucks, and length of Sou 960600 point to it being one of the Southern’s 50’ express box cars 3275-3299. All were standard 50’ box cars modified for express service and eventually restored as box cars. I cannot locate the records on them but I’m reasonably sure all were un-modified when they returned to general freight service.

That makes the car at TVRM really (!) unusual. It still has express car trucks and even the marker light holder on the corner (closest to the camera in Tim’s photo) that confirms what it was. It is possible a pair of express trucks were put back under the car for its time in heater service but that does not seem likely.

Tim….what other “gems” does TVRM have hiding out in the woods at Enterprise South?

Ike

One of the newest gems at TVRM is NS office car 8, ex Southern OC-21, ex Pullman Point Richmond. It is about to go into the shop at East Chattanooga to be updated (electrical and holding tanks) and backdated to its 1956 appearance…including Southern green paint, of course. “Modeling” rolling stock in 12” - 1’ scale take s a lot of effort and money. Please consider making a donation to TVRM to help with all its preservation and maintenance work. If people don’t help, things like OC-21 and 960600 will eventually become unwanted scrap.


On Mar 11, 2021, at 4:10 PM, TIM ANDREWS <ANDREWSTIM@...> wrote:

Charlie's memory is pretty good.

Here is the car in storage in Chattanooga

<1615496962080blob.jpg>

If you look closely you can see the old number under the new:

<1615497014123blob.jpg>







On Thursday, March 11, 2021, 10:08:45 AM EST, Charles Powell <charlesspowell@...> wrote:


If my memory is correct, when the heater car first showed up in Chattanooga and was loaned to TVRM for supplying steam to the cars that were stored at Terminal Station it was HC-50. At some point  it went to the Chattanooga Diesel shop and renumbered into a 900000 number. 960600 maybe? There was one diesel powered trip to Huntsville that the car was used on in the 70s.
Charlie
<1615496962080blob.jpg><1615497014123blob.jpg>



George Eichelberger
 

BTW…they were painted the same colors as Southern passenger cars, body and lettering. The cars may appear longer than normal, they were only 10’ high, not the later standard 10’-6” for 40 and 50 ft box cars.

Ike


On Mar 11, 2021, at 6:14 PM, Bill Schafer <bill4501@...> wrote:

Here’s what they looked like in service. The conversion to passenger service came fairly late in the game - 1951, at Hayne. They were converted from 50’ freight boxcars built by Mt. Vernon Car in 1938. A free TIES Magazine to the first person who posts a photo of one of these behind steam in Southern Railway regular service. 

—Bill

<Sou 3294 Box Express.jpg>

On Mar 11, 2021, at 18:05, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:

The trucks, and length of Sou 960600 point to it being one of the Southern’s 50’ express box cars 3275-3299. All were standard 50’ box cars modified for express service and eventually restored as box cars. I cannot locate the records on them but I’m reasonably sure all were un-modified when they returned to general freight service.

That makes the car at TVRM really (!) unusual. It still has express car trucks and even the marker light holder on the corner (closest to the camera in Tim’s photo) that confirms what it was. It is possible a pair of express trucks were put back under the car for its time in heater service but that does not seem likely.

Tim….what other “gems” does TVRM have hiding out in the woods at Enterprise South?

Ike

One of the newest gems at TVRM is NS office car 8, ex Southern OC-21, ex Pullman Point Richmond. It is about to go into the shop at East Chattanooga to be updated (electrical and holding tanks) and backdated to its 1956 appearance…including Southern green paint, of course. “Modeling” rolling stock in 12” - 1’ scale take s a lot of effort and money. Please consider making a donation to TVRM to help with all its preservation and maintenance work. If people don’t help, things like OC-21 and 960600 will eventually become unwanted scrap.


On Mar 11, 2021, at 4:10 PM, TIM ANDREWS <ANDREWSTIM@...> wrote:

Charlie's memory is pretty good.

Here is the car in storage in Chattanooga

<1615496962080blob.jpg>

If you look closely you can see the old number under the new:

<1615497014123blob.jpg>







On Thursday, March 11, 2021, 10:08:45 AM EST, Charles Powell <charlesspowell@...> wrote:


If my memory is correct, when the heater car first showed up in Chattanooga and was loaned to TVRM for supplying steam to the cars that were stored at Terminal Station it was HC-50. At some point  it went to the Chattanooga Diesel shop and renumbered into a 900000 number. 960600 maybe? There was one diesel powered trip to Huntsville that the car was used on in the 70s.
Charlie
<1615496962080blob.jpg><1615497014123blob.jpg>




TIM ANDREWS
 

….what other “gems” does TVRM have hiding out in the woods at Enterprise South?

My personal favorite is the 1008.  

Hayne first modernized a small group of coaches (1000 (which is in service at TVRM)-1006). These cars had restrooms with lounges, round roof and small sealed windows.

With the war effort Hayne would not return to modernizing coaches until 1947 when they built 1007-1031 which were rebuilt from cars taken from the vast series of 1500 and 1600 numbered 69'0" (over the end sills) coaches in the Southern fleet.  They were smooth side welded cars with large windows but like the other "short"  coaches held only 46 seats.  They were forerunners of the smooth side cars constructed from Pullman cars (1032-1047) which were longer and had 52 seats.  After those were rebuilt the Southern would return to modernizing 69'0" coaches but they were left with riveted construction and had small either raise or sealed windows installed in the place of the raise windows.  Some of these cars had streamliner style seats installed, others the "older" style of reclining seats.

On Thursday, March 11, 2021, 06:05:54 PM EST, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:


The trucks, and length of Sou 960600 point to it being one of the Southern’s 50’ express box cars 3275-3299. All were standard 50’ box cars modified for express service and eventually restored as box cars. I cannot locate the records on them but I’m reasonably sure all were un-modified when they returned to general freight service.

That makes the car at TVRM really (!) unusual. It still has express car trucks and even the marker light holder on the corner (closest to the camera in Tim’s photo) that confirms what it was. It is possible a pair of express trucks were put back under the car for its time in heater service but that does not seem likely.

Tim….what other “gems” does TVRM have hiding out in the woods at Enterprise South?

Ike

One of the newest gems at TVRM is NS office car 8, ex Southern OC-21, ex Pullman Point Richmond. It is about to go into the shop at East Chattanooga to be updated (electrical and holding tanks) and backdated to its 1956 appearance…including Southern green paint, of course. “Modeling” rolling stock in 12” - 1’ scale take s a lot of effort and money. Please consider making a donation to TVRM to help with all its preservation and maintenance work. If people don’t help, things like OC-21 and 960600 will eventually become unwanted scrap.


On Mar 11, 2021, at 4:10 PM, TIM ANDREWS <ANDREWSTIM@...> wrote:

Charlie's memory is pretty good.

Here is the car in storage in Chattanooga

<1615496962080blob.jpg>

If you look closely you can see the old number under the new:

<1615497014123blob.jpg>







On Thursday, March 11, 2021, 10:08:45 AM EST, Charles Powell <charlesspowell@...> wrote:


If my memory is correct, when the heater car first showed up in Chattanooga and was loaned to TVRM for supplying steam to the cars that were stored at Terminal Station it was HC-50. At some point  it went to the Chattanooga Diesel shop and renumbered into a 900000 number. 960600 maybe? There was one diesel powered trip to Huntsville that the car was used on in the 70s.
Charlie
<1615496962080blob.jpg><1615497014123blob.jpg>


Robert Graham
 

Been preoccupied with family concerns and not able to comment much lately, but do have a good shot of SOU heater car HC-50 in service I thought I would share; a Ken Douglas shot from my collection. The HC-50 is on what looks like train #41, the Pelican at Bristol VA on Sept 4 1960, based upon the sun lighting on the car and the schedules of that time period. SOU HC-50 is still in what I suspect was its original paint livery after conversion. While a B&W photo, chromatic differences indicate the HC-50 was painted similar to a SOU B-unit, sylvan green/imitation aluminum lower band/Duco dulux gold 2" stripe and lettering, but with lettering and a large SOU medallion that was more indicative of a boxcar. This is the only shot I have of one of these express boxcar to heater car conversions.

Bob Graham

-----------------------------------------

From: "Bill Schafer"
To: "main@southernrailway.groups.io"
Cc:
Sent: Thursday March 11 2021 6:14:39PM
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Heater Car 50 at TVRM?

Here’s what they looked like in service. The conversion to passenger service came fairly late in the game - 1951, at Hayne. They were converted from 50’ freight boxcars built by Mt. Vernon Car in 1938. A free TIES Magazine to the first person who posts a photo of one of these behind steam in Southern Railway regular service. 

—Bill

INBOX224843cc375cfaa62580eced9653386fc86

On Mar 11, 2021, at 18:05, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:

The trucks, and length of Sou 960600 point to it being one of the Southern’s 50’ express box cars 3275-3299. All were standard 50’ box cars modified for express service and eventually restored as box cars. I cannot locate the records on them but I’m reasonably sure all were un-modified when they returned to general freight service.

That makes the car at TVRM really (!) unusual. It still has express car trucks and even the marker light holder on the corner (closest to the camera in Tim’s photo) that confirms what it was. It is possible a pair of express trucks were put back under the car for its time in heater service but that does not seem likely.

Tim….what other “gems” does TVRM have hiding out in the woods at Enterprise South?

Ike

One of the newest gems at TVRM is NS office car 8, ex Southern OC-21, ex Pullman Point Richmond. It is about to go into the shop at East Chattanooga to be updated (electrical and holding tanks) and backdated to its 1956 appearance…including Southern green paint, of course. “Modeling” rolling stock in 12” - 1’ scale take s a lot of effort and money. Please consider making a donation to TVRM to help with all its preservation and maintenance work. If people don’t help, things like OC-21 and 960600 will eventually become unwanted scrap.


On Mar 11, 2021, at 4:10 PM, TIM ANDREWS <ANDREWSTIM@...> wrote:

Charlie's memory is pretty good.

Here is the car in storage in Chattanooga

<1615496962080blob.jpg>

If you look closely you can see the old number under the new:

<1615497014123blob.jpg>







On Thursday, March 11, 2021, 10:08:45 AM EST, Charles Powell <charlesspowell@...> wrote:


If my memory is correct, when the heater car first showed up in Chattanooga and was loaned to TVRM for supplying steam to the cars that were stored at Terminal Station it was HC-50. At some point  it went to the Chattanooga Diesel shop and renumbered into a 900000 number. 960600 maybe? There was one diesel powered trip to Huntsville that the car was used on in the 70s.
Charlie
<1615496962080blob.jpg><1615497014123blob.jpg>



TIM ANDREWS
 

Charles Powell should be able to tell us if it was still green when it came to TVRM or whether it was already black.  

On Thursday, March 11, 2021, 09:04:21 PM EST, Robert Graham <rgraham2@...> wrote:


Been preoccupied with family concerns and not able to comment much lately, but do have a good shot of SOU heater car HC-50 in service I thought I would share; a Ken Douglas shot from my collection. The HC-50 is on what looks like train #41, the Pelican at Bristol VA on Sept 4 1960, based upon the sun lighting on the car and the schedules of that time period. SOU HC-50 is still in what I suspect was its original paint livery after conversion. While a B&W photo, chromatic differences indicate the HC-50 was painted similar to a SOU B-unit, sylvan green/imitation aluminum lower band/Duco dulux gold 2" stripe and lettering, but with lettering and a large SOU medallion that was more indicative of a boxcar. This is the only shot I have of one of these express boxcar to heater car conversions.

Bob Graham

-----------------------------------------

From: "Bill Schafer"
To: "main@southernrailway.groups.io"
Cc:
Sent: Thursday March 11 2021 6:14:39PM
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Heater Car 50 at TVRM?

Here’s what they looked like in service. The conversion to passenger service came fairly late in the game - 1951, at Hayne. They were converted from 50’ freight boxcars built by Mt. Vernon Car in 1938. A free TIES Magazine to the first person who posts a photo of one of these behind steam in Southern Railway regular service. 

—Bill

INBOX224843cc375cfaa62580eced9653386fc86

On Mar 11, 2021, at 18:05, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:

The trucks, and length of Sou 960600 point to it being one of the Southern’s 50’ express box cars 3275-3299. All were standard 50’ box cars modified for express service and eventually restored as box cars. I cannot locate the records on them but I’m reasonably sure all were un-modified when they returned to general freight service.

That makes the car at TVRM really (!) unusual. It still has express car trucks and even the marker light holder on the corner (closest to the camera in Tim’s photo) that confirms what it was. It is possible a pair of express trucks were put back under the car for its time in heater service but that does not seem likely.

Tim….what other “gems” does TVRM have hiding out in the woods at Enterprise South?

Ike

One of the newest gems at TVRM is NS office car 8, ex Southern OC-21, ex Pullman Point Richmond. It is about to go into the shop at East Chattanooga to be updated (electrical and holding tanks) and backdated to its 1956 appearance…including Southern green paint, of course. “Modeling” rolling stock in 12” - 1’ scale take s a lot of effort and money. Please consider making a donation to TVRM to help with all its preservation and maintenance work. If people don’t help, things like OC-21 and 960600 will eventually become unwanted scrap.


On Mar 11, 2021, at 4:10 PM, TIM ANDREWS <ANDREWSTIM@...> wrote:

Charlie's memory is pretty good.

Here is the car in storage in Chattanooga

<1615496962080blob.jpg>

If you look closely you can see the old number under the new:

<1615497014123blob.jpg>







On Thursday, March 11, 2021, 10:08:45 AM EST, Charles Powell <charlesspowell@...> wrote:


If my memory is correct, when the heater car first showed up in Chattanooga and was loaned to TVRM for supplying steam to the cars that were stored at Terminal Station it was HC-50. At some point  it went to the Chattanooga Diesel shop and renumbered into a 900000 number. 960600 maybe? There was one diesel powered trip to Huntsville that the car was used on in the 70s.
Charlie
<1615496962080blob.jpg><1615497014123blob.jpg>



Rob Wingo
 

I remember the all black smooth side coaches, mainly used on #7&8 up here on washington district as the single coach and an Fp-7.  Would stop and pickup pigs at Van Dorn, so there was some revenue.   Are there close models of these?

Sent from Rob's iPhone Xs

On Mar 11, 2021, at 9:36 PM, TIM ANDREWS <ANDREWSTIM@...> wrote:


Charles Powell should be able to tell us if it was still green when it came to TVRM or whether it was already black.  

On Thursday, March 11, 2021, 09:04:21 PM EST, Robert Graham <rgraham2@...> wrote:


Been preoccupied with family concerns and not able to comment much lately, but do have a good shot of SOU heater car HC-50 in service I thought I would share; a Ken Douglas shot from my collection. The HC-50 is on what looks like train #41, the Pelican at Bristol VA on Sept 4 1960, based upon the sun lighting on the car and the schedules of that time period. SOU HC-50 is still in what I suspect was its original paint livery after conversion. While a B&W photo, chromatic differences indicate the HC-50 was painted similar to a SOU B-unit, sylvan green/imitation aluminum lower band/Duco dulux gold 2" stripe and lettering, but with lettering and a large SOU medallion that was more indicative of a boxcar. This is the only shot I have of one of these express boxcar to heater car conversions.

Bob Graham

-----------------------------------------

From: "Bill Schafer"
To: "main@southernrailway.groups.io"
Cc:
Sent: Thursday March 11 2021 6:14:39PM
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Heater Car 50 at TVRM?

Here’s what they looked like in service. The conversion to passenger service came fairly late in the game - 1951, at Hayne. They were converted from 50’ freight boxcars built by Mt. Vernon Car in 1938. A free TIES Magazine to the first person who posts a photo of one of these behind steam in Southern Railway regular service. 

—Bill

INBOX224843cc375cfaa62580eced9653386fc86

On Mar 11, 2021, at 18:05, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:

The trucks, and length of Sou 960600 point to it being one of the Southern’s 50’ express box cars 3275-3299. All were standard 50’ box cars modified for express service and eventually restored as box cars. I cannot locate the records on them but I’m reasonably sure all were un-modified when they returned to general freight service.

That makes the car at TVRM really (!) unusual. It still has express car trucks and even the marker light holder on the corner (closest to the camera in Tim’s photo) that confirms what it was. It is possible a pair of express trucks were put back under the car for its time in heater service but that does not seem likely.

Tim….what other “gems” does TVRM have hiding out in the woods at Enterprise South?

Ike

One of the newest gems at TVRM is NS office car 8, ex Southern OC-21, ex Pullman Point Richmond. It is about to go into the shop at East Chattanooga to be updated (electrical and holding tanks) and backdated to its 1956 appearance…including Southern green paint, of course. “Modeling” rolling stock in 12” - 1’ scale take s a lot of effort and money. Please consider making a donation to TVRM to help with all its preservation and maintenance work. If people don’t help, things like OC-21 and 960600 will eventually become unwanted scrap.


On Mar 11, 2021, at 4:10 PM, TIM ANDREWS <ANDREWSTIM@...> wrote:

Charlie's memory is pretty good.

Here is the car in storage in Chattanooga

<1615496962080blob.jpg>

If you look closely you can see the old number under the new:

<1615497014123blob.jpg>







On Thursday, March 11, 2021, 10:08:45 AM EST, Charles Powell <charlesspowell@...> wrote:


If my memory is correct, when the heater car first showed up in Chattanooga and was loaned to TVRM for supplying steam to the cars that were stored at Terminal Station it was HC-50. At some point  it went to the Chattanooga Diesel shop and renumbered into a 900000 number. 960600 maybe? There was one diesel powered trip to Huntsville that the car was used on in the 70s.
Charlie
<1615496962080blob.jpg><1615497014123blob.jpg>


<SOU heater car HC 50 09-04-60 Bristol VA KenDouglas photo-BobGraham coll300dpi001 copy.jpg>