Topics

locked Mystery Hopper Class


Evan Miller
 

Hello everyone, I was looking though the photos on the Southern Railfan photo archives and these hoppers I've linked below caught my attention.  Would anyone happen to have any information regarding this class? They lasted long enough into the NS era to receive the designation of HS-22. I know they can't be from Southern's massive fleet of 3 bay 70 tonners built in the 50's. They're not the 3 bay  Committee Design cars. And they are not the 3 bay Greenville cars that were built just before the merger. Perhaps Southern received these before switching to the Big Red design?
http://southern.railfan.net/images/archive/southern/freight/hop/79121.jpg
http://southern.railfan.net/images/archive/southern/freight/hop/78959.jpg
http://southern.railfan.net/images/archive/southern/freight/hop/79235.jpg
http://southern.railfan.net/images/archive/southern/freight/hop/79219.jpg
-Evan Miller


Jason Greene
 

Are these ex-CG cars? 

Jason Greene 

On Apr 10, 2020, at 3:23 PM, Evan Miller via groups.io <nsrailfan82@...> wrote:

Hello everyone, I was looking though the photos on the Southern Railfan photo archives and these hoppers I've linked below caught my attention.  Would anyone happen to have any information regarding this class? They lasted long enough into the NS era to receive the designation of HS-22. I know they can't be from Southern's massive fleet of 3 bay 70 tonners built in the 50's. They're not the 3 bay  Committee Design cars. And they are not the 3 bay Greenville cars that were built just before the merger. Perhaps Southern received these before switching to the Big Red design?
http://southern.railfan.net/images/archive/southern/freight/hop/79121.jpg
http://southern.railfan.net/images/archive/southern/freight/hop/78959.jpg
http://southern.railfan.net/images/archive/southern/freight/hop/79235.jpg
http://southern.railfan.net/images/archive/southern/freight/hop/79219.jpg
-Evan Miller


D. Scott Chatfield
 

Pullman-Standard, if memory serves.  Not ex-CG.


Scott Chatfield


"Evan Miller via groups.io" <nsrailfan82@...> wrote:
Hello everyone, I was looking though the photos on the Southern Railfan photo archives and these hoppers I've linked below caught my attention.  Would anyone happen to have any information regarding this class? They lasted long enough into the NS era to receive the designation of HS-22. I know they can't be from Southern's massive fleet of 3 bay 70 tonners built in the 50's. They're not the 3 bay  Committee Design cars. And they are not the 3 bay Greenville cars that were built just before the merger. Perhaps Southern received these before switching to the Big Red design?
http://southern.railfan.net/images/archive/southern/freight/hop/79121.jpg
http://southern.railfan.net/images/archive/southern/freight/hop/78959.jpg
http://southern.railfan.net/images/archive/southern/freight/hop/79235.jpg
http://southern.railfan.net/images/archive/southern/freight/hop/79219.jpg
-Evan Miller


darrell2010
 

Good memory. SOU 78800-79299, PS, Lot 9883, 7=8/75. 

Darrell Sawyer



On Friday, April 10, 2020, 02:03:17 PM MDT, D. Scott Chatfield <blindog@...> wrote:


Pullman-Standard, if memory serves.  Not ex-CG.


Scott Chatfield


"Evan Miller via groups.io" <nsrailfan82@...> wrote:
Hello everyone, I was looking though the photos on the Southern Railfan photo archives and these hoppers I've linked below caught my attention.  Would anyone happen to have any information regarding this class? They lasted long enough into the NS era to receive the designation of HS-22. I know they can't be from Southern's massive fleet of 3 bay 70 tonners built in the 50's. They're not the 3 bay  Committee Design cars. And they are not the 3 bay Greenville cars that were built just before the merger. Perhaps Southern received these before switching to the Big Red design?
http://southern.railfan.net/images/archive/southern/freight/hop/79121.jpg
http://southern.railfan.net/images/archive/southern/freight/hop/78959.jpg
http://southern.railfan.net/images/archive/southern/freight/hop/79235.jpg
http://southern.railfan.net/images/archive/southern/freight/hop/79219.jpg
-Evan Miller


O Fenton Wells
 

According to the diagram book these cars 78800-79299 were built by PS in 1975
Fenton

On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 4:06 PM darrell2010 via groups.io <darrell2010=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Good memory. SOU 78800-79299, PS, Lot 9883, 7=8/75. 

Darrell Sawyer



On Friday, April 10, 2020, 02:03:17 PM MDT, D. Scott Chatfield <blindog@...> wrote:


Pullman-Standard, if memory serves.  Not ex-CG.


Scott Chatfield


"Evan Miller via groups.io" <nsrailfan82=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hello everyone, I was looking though the photos on the Southern Railfan photo archives and these hoppers I've linked below caught my attention.  Would anyone happen to have any information regarding this class? They lasted long enough into the NS era to receive the designation of HS-22. I know they can't be from Southern's massive fleet of 3 bay 70 tonners built in the 50's. They're not the 3 bay  Committee Design cars. And they are not the 3 bay Greenville cars that were built just before the merger. Perhaps Southern received these before switching to the Big Red design?
http://southern.railfan.net/images/archive/southern/freight/hop/79121.jpg
http://southern.railfan.net/images/archive/southern/freight/hop/78959.jpg
http://southern.railfan.net/images/archive/southern/freight/hop/79235.jpg
http://southern.railfan.net/images/archive/southern/freight/hop/79219.jpg
-Evan Miller



--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


Evan Miller
 

Thanks everyone! I’m assuming these are 100 ton PS-3’s, but perhaps built to Southern specs? L&N had plenty of PS-3’s but theirs had a different slope angle and more panels/ribs. 

-Evan Miller 

On Apr 10, 2020, at 4:12 PM, O Fenton Wells <srrfan1401@...> wrote:


According to the diagram book these cars 78800-79299 were built by PS in 1975
Fenton

On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 4:06 PM darrell2010 via groups.io <darrell2010=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Good memory. SOU 78800-79299, PS, Lot 9883, 7=8/75. 

Darrell Sawyer



On Friday, April 10, 2020, 02:03:17 PM MDT, D. Scott Chatfield <blindog@...> wrote:


Pullman-Standard, if memory serves.  Not ex-CG.


Scott Chatfield


"Evan Miller via groups.io" <nsrailfan82=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hello everyone, I was looking though the photos on the Southern Railfan photo archives and these hoppers I've linked below caught my attention.  Would anyone happen to have any information regarding this class? They lasted long enough into the NS era to receive the designation of HS-22. I know they can't be from Southern's massive fleet of 3 bay 70 tonners built in the 50's. They're not the 3 bay  Committee Design cars. And they are not the 3 bay Greenville cars that were built just before the merger. Perhaps Southern received these before switching to the Big Red design?
http://southern.railfan.net/images/archive/southern/freight/hop/79121.jpg
http://southern.railfan.net/images/archive/southern/freight/hop/78959.jpg
http://southern.railfan.net/images/archive/southern/freight/hop/79235.jpg
http://southern.railfan.net/images/archive/southern/freight/hop/79219.jpg
-Evan Miller



--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


Stuart Thayer
 

Evan,

You are correct.  These would have been considered PS3's.  PS3 was nomenclature used by Pullman-Standard for all open top hoppers just like PS1 was nomenclature for all boxcars.

Stuart Thayer

In a message dated 4/10/2020 5:29:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, nsrailfan82@... writes:

Thanks everyone! I’m assuming these are 100 ton PS-3’s, but perhaps built to Southern specs? L&N had plenty of PS-3’s but theirs had a different slope angle and more panels/ribs.

-Evan Miller

On Apr 10, 2020, at 4:12 PM, O Fenton Wells <srrfan1401@...> wrote:

According to the diagram book these cars 78800-79299 were built by PS in 1975
Fenton

On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 4:06 PM darrell2010 via groups.io <darrell2010=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Good memory. SOU 78800-79299, PS, Lot 9883, 7=8/75.

Darrell Sawyer



On Friday, April 10, 2020, 02:03:17 PM MDT, D. Scott Chatfield <blindog@...> wrote:


Pullman-Standard, if memory serves.  Not ex-CG.


Scott Chatfield


"Evan Miller via groups.io" <nsrailfan82=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hello everyone, I was looking though the photos on the Southern Railfan photo archives and these hoppers I've linked below caught my attention.  Would anyone happen to have any information regarding this class? They lasted long enough into the NS era to receive the designation of HS-22. I know they can't be from Southern's massive fleet of 3 bay 70 tonners built in the 50's. They're not the 3 bay  Committee Design cars. And they are not the 3 bay Greenville cars that were built just before the merger. Perhaps Southern received these before switching to the Big Red design?
http://southern.railfan.net/images/archive/southern/freight/hop/79121.jpg
http://southern.railfan.net/images/archive/southern/freight/hop/78959.jpg
http://southern.railfan.net/images/archive/southern/freight/hop/79235.jpg
http://southern.railfan.net/images/archive/southern/freight/hop/79219.jpg
-Evan Miller

 




--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


Stephen Warner
 

I do remember these 78 and 79 thousand hoppers, and rerailed more than I cared to, since my territory was a major Sou. coal route.  The first design, if you looked closely at the truck location (not in these pix, these came later), had one axle on each end jutting out past the car end.  I always understood that this was changed because the truck spacing matched the rail joint spacing (before CWR) and allowed too much harmonic rocking action/derailments on our old, battered joints.  This was especially bad on the curves on the TB/St. Charles Line 100LB AC rail.  The other thing as that they wore the rail badly - I could always hear them squealing on the sharp curves, much louder (and heavier) than the Silversides. SR tried steering trucks, but it added too much Tare Wt. and created overload potential since exactly 100 M's plus tare equaled 286K, but just a minute too long at a flood loader would have a 290K or more car, overweight. I proved this to Mr. Rose, which he already suspected.  These pix bring back a lot of memories.


Justin May
 

Good memory. SOU 78800-79299, PS, Lot 9883, 7=8/75.
Pullman Standard builders photos -

http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=sou78802&;o=sou
http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=sou79263&;o=sou

Justin May


D. Scott Chatfield
 

Thanks Darrell.  Next time I'm at the archives I'll see if we have the NCP folders for these cars.


Scott Chatfield


Evan Miller
 

Thanks for the builders photos Justin. Didn’t know they had red trucks as well. Southern sure loved to have lettering all over their coal cars! I’ve never seen another railroad with as much data and warnings on theirs as Southern had.

When were the first Big Reds delivered by the way?

-Evan Miller

On Apr 10, 2020, at 7:49 PM, Justin May <westpointroute@gmail.com> wrote:


Good memory. SOU 78800-79299, PS, Lot 9883, 7=8/75.
Pullman Standard builders photos -

http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=sou78802&;o=sou
http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=sou79263&;o=sou

Justin May


Justin May
 

Evan,
The "Big Reds" look like they were constructed by Thrall in 1972,
though a Pullman-Standard car (20 panels compared to 18 panels on the
Thrall car) were constructed as early as 1964 and 1966. Forgive my
ignorance on these groups, and I'm not sure if the Pullman Standard
cars would be included in the term.

SOU 75000-75799, 5/1964, Pullman Standard
SOU 75800-76599, 9/1966, Pullman Standard

http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=sou75047&;o=sou
http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=sou76070&;o=sou
http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=sou75309&;o=sou

Justin May

On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 11:19 PM Evan Miller via groups.io
<nsrailfan82=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Thanks for the builders photos Justin. Didn’t know they had red trucks as well. Southern sure loved to have lettering all over their coal cars! I’ve never seen another railroad with as much data and warnings on theirs as Southern had.

When were the first Big Reds delivered by the way?

-Evan Miller

On Apr 10, 2020, at 7:49 PM, Justin May <westpointroute@gmail.com> wrote:


Good memory. SOU 78800-79299, PS, Lot 9883, 7=8/75.
Pullman Standard builders photos -

http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=sou78802&;o=sou
http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=sou79263&;o=sou

Justin May




Daniel Bourque
 

Justin, Evan,

The earlier P-S cars were definitely considered Big Reds—they were the original Big Reds as they dwarfed the 70T cars. The number of ribs also corresponds with the number of bays. The earliest Big Reds, built by P-S in 1964, were 6-bay, 4003 cu ft, 20-panel cars and numbered 75000-76599. Later cars, built by other manufacturers including Greenville Steel Car, were 4-bay, 3600 cu ft, 18-panel cars; numbers included 76600-77199, 77200-77799, 77800-78399, 78400-78799, 351062-351861, 390000-390499. There may be more series of the latter car.

Dan Bourque

On Apr 12, 2020, at 5:59 AM, Justin May <westpointroute@gmail.com> wrote:

Evan,
The "Big Reds" look like they were constructed by Thrall in 1972,
though a Pullman-Standard car (20 panels compared to 18 panels on the
Thrall car) were constructed as early as 1964 and 1966. Forgive my
ignorance on these groups, and I'm not sure if the Pullman Standard
cars would be included in the term.

SOU 75000-75799, 5/1964, Pullman Standard
SOU 75800-76599, 9/1966, Pullman Standard

http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=sou75047&;o=sou
http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=sou76070&;o=sou
http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=sou75309&;o=sou

Justin May

On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 11:19 PM Evan Miller via groups.io
<nsrailfan82=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Thanks for the builders photos Justin. Didn’t know they had red trucks as well. Southern sure loved to have lettering all over their coal cars! I’ve never seen another railroad with as much data and warnings on theirs as Southern had.

When were the first Big Reds delivered by the way?

-Evan Miller

On Apr 10, 2020, at 7:49 PM, Justin May <westpointroute@gmail.com> wrote:

Good memory. SOU 78800-79299, PS, Lot 9883, 7=8/75.
Pullman Standard builders photos -

http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=sou78802&;o=sou
http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=sou79263&;o=sou

Justin May





David Payne
 


I've heard these referred to as "Little Reds" inside 99 Spring Street in the late sixties/seventies.  Both types would be routed to Plant Yates in west central Georgia hauling "straggler" coal (compared to unit train coal).
David Payne


In a message dated 4/12/2020 9:31:45 AM Eastern Standard Time, deltabourque@... writes:

Later cars, built by other manufacturers


Daniel Bourque
 

David, 

Are you saying the 100T 4-bays were called "little reds" while the earlier 100T 6-bays were "big reds?" 

I know in the Appalachia, VA area the 50T hoppers were called "blacks" in the late '60s/70s (you see "blacks" and "reds" on track charts denoting track capacities--a lot of the "blacks" were ex-Interstate RR cars) while 50 and 70T cars in shuttle service to the big transloader were collectively called "yellow balls" (they had a big yellow dot painted on them)--do you know if the Southern had a nickname for the 70T, 3-bay hoppers?

Dan


From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io> on behalf of David Payne via groups.io <davidcofga@...>
Sent: Sunday, April 12, 2020 9:20 AM
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Mystery Hopper Class
 

I've heard these referred to as "Little Reds" inside 99 Spring Street in the late sixties/seventies.  Both types would be routed to Plant Yates in west central Georgia hauling "straggler" coal (compared to unit train coal).
David Payne


In a message dated 4/12/2020 9:31:45 AM Eastern Standard Time, deltabourque@... writes:

Later cars, built by other manufacturers


David Payne
 


Yes, that's the way it was explained to me.
DPayne


In a message dated 4/12/2020 11:27:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, deltabourque@... writes:

Are you saying the 100T 4-bays were called "little reds" while the earlier 100T 6-bays were "big reds?"