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Locked Need timetable help
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Jim King
I’m looking for Asheville Division timetables from the teens, 20s, 30s, up to mid 40s, for a Murphy Branch project. Photocopies are welcome or I can scan your original and return it with a scan file for your records. Asheville Division may have been called something else at one time. I’ve also read that the Murphy Branch was called Murphy Division “way back when”.
No luck with railroad book dealers (Railpub, Ron’s), ebay or Amazon.
Jim King http://smokymountainmodelworks.com/
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Don't think I have anything that old but will check Fenton On Wed, Aug 31, 2022 at 11:43 PM Jim King <jimking3@...> wrote:
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aramsay18
Hello Jim and ALCON I have Southern passenger service timetables back to the 1890s. In a 1950 Southern passenger timetable there is freight service only to Murphy NC. No Murphy division is listed. There are a number of passenger service trains to/from Asheville NC but nothing uniquely Asheville division (the Asheville Division is listed frequently together with others providing service to numerous destinations in the Southern system). However there was the Asheville Special Coach and Pullman (Table J1) originating in Boston MA (on the New York, New Haven and Hartford Railroad) connecting to the PRR in New York, then on the PRR and onto the Southern in Washington, then to Asheville with quite a number of intermediate points. In the Oct. 1907 and Sept. 1908 Southern passenger service timetables there are listings for the "Murphy Division" which shows passenger service between Asheville and Murphy NC with quite a few intermediate points. There are several other listings relevant to Asheville. Only the one listing for Murphy NC (the Murphy Division). In the June 1905 and August 1906 Southern passenger service timetables the "Murphy Division" was listed as the "Asheville Division" providing service Asheville/Murphy. Evidently from the timetables the "Asheville Division" changed to the "Murphy Division" circa 1907. I'll speculate that when passenger service to Murphy NC was dropped, Southern changed the division name changed back to "Asheville Division" but I won't be able to narrow down a date range for a week or so. (I see part of the former "Murphy Branch" is in use today but in different ownership.) Timetables aimed at the tourist trade titled "Principal Cities and Resorts of the South" in 1898, 1902, 1903, 1904, and 1910 list Asheville as a point of service but in a higher level context (principal cities), lacking anything about Murphy and associated details I imagine you want. Shortly I will have Southern passenger service timetables at hand for 1920, 1929, 1932, 1935, 1940, and 1944. (Passenger service to Murphy and intermediate points may have been reinstated during the war.) I'll pass along those results if that helps. There is a lot of history concerning the "Murphy Branch," including the Southern's predecessors Richmond and Danville and the WNCR. You might want to refer to this book "George, Michael. Southern Railway's Murphy Branch. Collegedale TN: The College Press, 1996." There are used softcover copies for sale $19.95 on AbeBooks at this link: If you want timetable details, I can take pictures/make scans of whatever is relevant (I have a large flatbed scanner.) Best Regards from Berryville VA Andrew Ramsay On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 6:52 AM O Fenton Wells <srrfan1401@...> wrote:
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Tom Seay
Passenger service from Asheville to Murphy NC ended 15 July 1948. The Great Smoky Mountains Railroad operates tourist excursions out of Bryson City NC. —Tom Seay
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Warren Stephens
I wonder if Southern ever contemplated passenger motorcar service over this line? Warren D. Stephens
On Friday, September 2, 2022 at 08:40:45 PM EDT, Tom Seay via groups.io <duckamuck@...> wrote:
Passenger service from Asheville to Murphy NC ended 15 July 1948. The Great Smoky Mountains Railroad operates tourist excursions out of Bryson City NC. —Tom Seay
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George Eichelberger
Warren:
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The individual file on trains 17-18 (Asheville-Murphy) includes 48 documents that have been scanned so far. Someone needs to read through it again but I do not recall anything about motor car services. Post war, the Southern had one “plan” for passenger services of any kind….cutting them off! All of the (scanned) “Individual Train files” will be accessible, if time permits, when the archives is open during the joint SRHA/L&NHS convention and RPM meet to registered attendees (the archives will be closed otherwise). For anyone planning on making a day trip to Chattanooga on Saturday 9-30, the one-day RPM fee is $25.00. That includes entry to any of the clinics, TVRM model railroad layout and the SRHA/L&NHS archives. (There will not be enough manpower available to help with individual research during the convention. There WILL be a mini clinic on “Using prototype documentation” at various times in the archives.) The “Individual Train files” directory includes 5,375 items (8.49GB): General Info Train Discontinuances KC-Florida Spl L&N, TC & NC&StL Memphis Spl 1914 Other Road's passenger svcs Pass Tr consists Pass schedules (multiple trains) Passenger Train Disc Status Passenger Trains - general Pickens Xplorer Pullman Operations SAL-ACL-SCL Passenger Services SEPC and State PUCs Seminole Sou Pac Sou-PRR-PC joint service Tr 1-2 Crescent Tr 1-2 New Albany-Princeton, IN Tr 1-2 Ponce Tr 1-2 Sheffield-Parrish Tr 1-2 St Louis-Louisville Tr 1-2, 3-4 (mail alts) Tr 1-28, 2-27 appl to disc Cincy-Atlanta & Oakdale-Columbia Tr 1-28, 2-27 appl to disc Pullman line 2254 Asheville-Tryon, NC Tr 1-28, 2-27 appl to disc Pullman line 2254 Asheville-Tryon, NC Cover Tr 101-102 Mixed Knoxville-Maryville Tr 107-108 Nancy Hanks Tr 11, 12, 14 & 21 Harrisonburg Branch Tr 11-12 & 7-14 Richmond-Danville, VA Tr 11-12 Asheville-Salisbury Tr 11-12 Atl-Bham Tr 11-12 Columbia-Charleston Tr 11-12-141-142 Monroe-Grnvl Tr 11-14 Birmingham-Columbus, MS Tr 11-16 Bham-Columbus, GA Tr 111-112-13-14 Raleigh Gbo Tr 122, 123, 124, 125 Cochran-Hawkinsville, GA Tr 13 & 14 Tr 1-2 Sheffield-Parrish Tr 13-14 GS&F Valdosta-Palatka mixed Tr 13-14 Richmond Danville Tr 13-14 Winston-Salem - Wilksboro Tr 135 Tocccoa, GA Tr 141-142 Union-Lockhart, SC Tr 15 & 16 Gbo-Asheville Tr 15-16 Asheville-Salisbury Tr 15-16 Cincinnati-Chattanooga Tr 15-16 Mixed Tecumseh-Wilton and Wilton-Selma, AL Tr 15-16 in AL Tr 15-16 in Ky Tr 17-18 & 115-116 Mixed Selma-Akron & Selma Demopolis Tr 17-18 Ashe-Murphy Tr 17-18 Augusta-Branchville Tr 17-18 Birmingham Spl Tr 17-18 Macon-Vidalia (Last psgr train on MD&S) Tr 17-18 Somerset-Pine Knot Tr 17-18 via Bristol and Roanoke Tr 17-45 + 18-46 (with N&W) Tr 19-21-22 Atl Columbus Tr 21-22 Greensboro-Goldsboro Tr 21-22 Raleigh-Goldsboro Tr 21-22 Salisbury-Charlotte Tr 23-24 Louisville-Danville, KY Tr 23-24 in Ill and IN Tr 24-25 Atlanta-Columbus, GA Tr 24-9 Skyland Spl Tr 25-26 Chatt-Washington 1914 Tr 26 GS&F Tr 27-28 Tr 29 Atlanta-DC Tr 29-30 Bham-Atl Tr 3-4 Mixed Toccoa-Elberton, GA Tr 31-32 Atl-Chattanooga Tr 31-32 Augusta-Special Tr 31-32 Disc Tr 31-32 in SC Tr 33 Tr 34, 35 & 36 "Piedmont" Tr 34-35 Raleigh-Greensboro Tr 35-36 Ashe-Knox (1914) Tr 35-36 Ft Valley, GA Tr 36 Atl-WDC Tr 36-36-135-136 Marion Rock Hill Tr 37-38 Carolina Spl Tr 37-38 L&N, A&WP, Sou Crescent Tr 38 Crescent Tr 39-30 Sals-Atl Tr 4-5 (G&F) Augusta-Valdosta Tr 4-5 Florida Sunbeam Tr 40 "New Yorker" Tr 41-42 "Pelican" Tr 41-42 Chatt-York, AL Tr 41-49 Monroe-DC Tr 43-44 Atl-north Tr 43-44 NOLA-Cincinnati Tr 44 Atl-GBO (1914) Tr 45-46 Seminole & City of Miami Tr 45-46 Tennesseean Tr 47-48 "Cracker" Tr 47-48 "Southener" Tr 5-6 Mixed Lula-Athens, GA Tr 5-6 New Royal Palm Tr 5-6 Piedmont Tr 5-6 Rome Tr 5-8 Greensboro- W-S Tr 7 & 8 Bham to Columbus, MS Tr 7-8 Atlanta-Brunswick Tr 7-8 Chattanooga-Tuscumbia, AL Tr 71-170 Coryton-Cumberland Gap mixed Tr 76-77 Clinton-Jellico, TN Tr 8-15 Rome-Chatt 1915 Box 21 File 301 Disc Tr 9-10 Man O'War Tr 9-10 Mixed Bulls Gap-Rogersville Wash Sunset Rte Ad 1907Scan-191018-0001.jpg containerized mail (mty to Intermodal) tr 3-4 Chatt to Valdosta Ike On Sep 3, 2022, at 11:03 AM, Warren Stephens <wdstephens@...> wrote: I wonder if Southern ever contemplated passenger motorcar service over this line? Warren D. Stephens
On Friday, September 2, 2022 at 08:40:45 PM EDT, Tom Seay via groups.io <duckamuck@...> wrote:
Passenger service from Asheville to Murphy NC ended 15 July 1948. The Great Smoky Mountains Railroad operates tourist excursions out of Bryson City NC. —Tom Seay |
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George Eichelberger
On Sep 3, 2022, at 12:50 PM, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote: Warren:
The individual file on trains 17-18 (Asheville-Murphy) includes 48 documents that have been scanned so far. Someone needs to read through it again but I do not recall anything about motor car services. Post war, the Southern had one “plan” for passenger services of any kind….cutting them off! All of the (scanned) “Individual Train files” will be accessible, if time permits, when the archives is open during the joint SRHA/L&NHS convention and RPM meet to registered attendees (the archives will be closed otherwise). For anyone planning on making a day trip to Chattanooga on Saturday 9-30, the one-day RPM fee is $25.00. That includes entry to any of the clinics, TVRM model railroad layout and the SRHA/L&NHS archives. (There will not be enough manpower available to help with individual research during the convention. There WILL be a mini clinic on “Using prototype documentation” at various times in the archives.) The “Individual Train files” directory includes 5,375 items (8.49GB): General Info Train Discontinuances KC-Florida Spl L&N, TC & NC&StL Memphis Spl 1914 Other Road's passenger svcs Pass Tr consists Pass schedules (multiple trains) Passenger Train Disc Status Passenger Trains - general Pickens Xplorer Pullman Operations SAL-ACL-SCL Passenger Services SEPC and State PUCs Seminole Sou Pac Sou-PRR-PC joint service Tr 1-2 Crescent Tr 1-2 New Albany-Princeton, IN Tr 1-2 Ponce Tr 1-2 Sheffield-Parrish Tr 1-2 St Louis-Louisville Tr 1-2, 3-4 (mail alts) Tr 1-28, 2-27 appl to disc Cincy-Atlanta & Oakdale-Columbia Tr 1-28, 2-27 appl to disc Pullman line 2254 Asheville-Tryon, NC Tr 1-28, 2-27 appl to disc Pullman line 2254 Asheville-Tryon, NC Cover Tr 101-102 Mixed Knoxville-Maryville Tr 107-108 Nancy Hanks Tr 11, 12, 14 & 21 Harrisonburg Branch Tr 11-12 & 7-14 Richmond-Danville, VA Tr 11-12 Asheville-Salisbury Tr 11-12 Atl-Bham Tr 11-12 Columbia-Charleston Tr 11-12-141-142 Monroe-Grnvl Tr 11-14 Birmingham-Columbus, MS Tr 11-16 Bham-Columbus, GA Tr 111-112-13-14 Raleigh Gbo Tr 122, 123, 124, 125 Cochran-Hawkinsville, GA Tr 13 & 14 Tr 1-2 Sheffield-Parrish Tr 13-14 GS&F Valdosta-Palatka mixed Tr 13-14 Richmond Danville Tr 13-14 Winston-Salem - Wilksboro Tr 135 Tocccoa, GA Tr 141-142 Union-Lockhart, SC Tr 15 & 16 Gbo-Asheville Tr 15-16 Asheville-Salisbury Tr 15-16 Cincinnati-Chattanooga Tr 15-16 Mixed Tecumseh-Wilton and Wilton-Selma, AL Tr 15-16 in AL Tr 15-16 in Ky Tr 17-18 & 115-116 Mixed Selma-Akron & Selma Demopolis Tr 17-18 Ashe-Murphy Tr 17-18 Augusta-Branchville Tr 17-18 Birmingham Spl Tr 17-18 Macon-Vidalia (Last psgr train on MD&S) Tr 17-18 Somerset-Pine Knot Tr 17-18 via Bristol and Roanoke Tr 17-45 + 18-46 (with N&W) Tr 19-21-22 Atl Columbus Tr 21-22 Greensboro-Goldsboro Tr 21-22 Raleigh-Goldsboro Tr 21-22 Salisbury-Charlotte Tr 23-24 Louisville-Danville, KY Tr 23-24 in Ill and IN Tr 24-25 Atlanta-Columbus, GA Tr 24-9 Skyland Spl Tr 25-26 Chatt-Washington 1914 Tr 26 GS&F Tr 27-28 Tr 29 Atlanta-DC Tr 29-30 Bham-Atl Tr 3-4 Mixed Toccoa-Elberton, GA Tr 31-32 Atl-Chattanooga Tr 31-32 Augusta-Special Tr 31-32 Disc Tr 31-32 in SC Tr 33 Tr 34, 35 & 36 "Piedmont" Tr 34-35 Raleigh-Greensboro Tr 35-36 Ashe-Knox (1914) Tr 35-36 Ft Valley, GA Tr 36 Atl-WDC Tr 36-36-135-136 Marion Rock Hill Tr 37-38 Carolina Spl Tr 37-38 L&N, A&WP, Sou Crescent Tr 38 Crescent Tr 39-30 Sals-Atl Tr 4-5 (G&F) Augusta-Valdosta Tr 4-5 Florida Sunbeam Tr 40 "New Yorker" Tr 41-42 "Pelican" Tr 41-42 Chatt-York, AL Tr 41-49 Monroe-DC Tr 43-44 Atl-north Tr 43-44 NOLA-Cincinnati Tr 44 Atl-GBO (1914) Tr 45-46 Seminole & City of Miami Tr 45-46 Tennesseean Tr 47-48 "Cracker" Tr 47-48 "Southener" Tr 5-6 Mixed Lula-Athens, GA Tr 5-6 New Royal Palm Tr 5-6 Piedmont Tr 5-6 Rome Tr 5-8 Greensboro- W-S Tr 7 & 8 Bham to Columbus, MS Tr 7-8 Atlanta-Brunswick Tr 7-8 Chattanooga-Tuscumbia, AL Tr 71-170 Coryton-Cumberland Gap mixed Tr 76-77 Clinton-Jellico, TN Tr 8-15 Rome-Chatt 1915 Box 21 File 301 Disc Tr 9-10 Man O'War Tr 9-10 Mixed Bulls Gap-Rogersville Wash Sunset Rte Ad 1907Scan-191018-0001.jpg containerized mail (mty to Intermodal) tr 3-4 Chatt to Valdosta Ike On Sep 3, 2022, at 11:03 AM, Warren Stephens <wdstephens@...> wrote: I wonder if Southern ever contemplated passenger motorcar service over this line? Warren D. Stephens
On Friday, September 2, 2022 at 08:40:45 PM EDT, Tom Seay via groups.io <duckamuck@...> wrote:
Passenger service from Asheville to Murphy NC ended 15 July 1948. The Great Smoky Mountains Railroad operates tourist excursions out of Bryson City NC. —Tom Seay |
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Stephen Warner
Railroad Magazine in the 30's or 40's had a story about the division. Yes, it was a separate division based in Bryson City (I assume the depot there is still the same?) - the DS up and down a few more time between the hills. I may have the magazine around here somewhere. The write was pretty well known on Southern, worked later and retired at Marion and Old Fort as Operator, after DS at Bryson City (Frank Clodfelter? Not sure).
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