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locked original passenger car color


C J Wyatt
 

I assumed that the Southern Railway System's first passenger car color was similar to Pullman Green. Indeed, in a contract dated May 3, 1895 with Pullman Palace Car Company for new passenger cars, the body color is specified as "Pullman Standard furnished by Sherwin Williams Co". However the "standard" may be something else. Pullman expert Arthur D. Dublin said in his Pullman Paint and Lettering Notebook on page 10:

"Until 1900 Pullman cars were painted a rich, thick chocolate brown."

So did Southern in its early days use green or brown? And then we have the question about the color of letters, numbers, and stripes? Gold leaf?

I appreciate any help.

Jack Wyatt


Matt Bumgarner
 

At the SE Narrow Gauge & Shortline Museum, we have been restoring an 1899 narrow gauge baggage car from the WV Midland Rwy.  We found the original specs from the Jackson & Sharpe records, and the color specified was "Pullman", but as we sanded down siding or removed moulding, all we found was a chocolate brown. 

After more research, we found out indeed that the early "Pullman" color was brown, and around 1910 changed to green.

I can't remember the source, but I remember reading that UPS picked their brown color to match the original "Pullman" brown.

Matt Bumgrner

On Thu, Sep 24, 2020 at 2:57 PM C J Wyatt <cjwyatt@...> wrote:
I assumed that the Southern Railway System's first passenger car color was similar to Pullman Green. Indeed, in a contract dated May 3, 1895 with Pullman Palace Car Company for new passenger cars, the body color is specified as "Pullman Standard furnished by Sherwin Williams Co". However the "standard" may be something else. Pullman expert Arthur D. Dublin said in his Pullman Paint and Lettering Notebook on page 10:

"Until 1900 Pullman cars were painted a rich, thick chocolate brown."

So did Southern in its early days use green or brown? And then we have the question about the color of letters, numbers, and stripes? Gold leaf?

I appreciate any help.

Jack Wyatt


C J Wyatt
 

Thanks Matt,

I had heard the UPS story and that took place in 1916. Dublin said that Pullman started developing its green in 1900. Maybe it took ten years to evolve.

Brown sounds good to me. Now if I can get some evidence for the lettering.

Jack

On Thursday, September 24, 2020, 08:21:35 PM EDT, Matt Bumgarner <tarheelpress@...> wrote:





At the SE Narrow Gauge & Shortline Museum, we have been restoring an 1899 narrow gauge baggage car from the WV Midland Rwy.  We found the original specs from the Jackson & Sharpe records, and the color specified was "Pullman", but as we sanded down siding or removed moulding, all we found was a chocolate brown. 

After more research, we found out indeed that the early "Pullman" color was brown, and around 1910 changed to green.

I can't remember the source, but I remember reading that UPS picked their brown color to match the original "Pullman" brown.

Matt Bumgrner

On Thu, Sep 24, 2020 at 2:57 PM C J Wyatt <cjwyatt@...> wrote:
I assumed that the Southern Railway System's first passenger car color was similar to Pullman Green. Indeed, in a contract dated May 3, 1895 with Pullman Palace Car Company for new passenger cars, the body color is specified as "Pullman Standard furnished by Sherwin Williams Co". However the "standard" may be something else. Pullman expert Arthur D. Dublin said in his Pullman Paint and Lettering Notebook on page 10:

"Until 1900 Pullman cars were painted a rich, thick chocolate brown."

So did Southern in its early days use green or brown? And then we have the question about the color of letters, numbers, and stripes? Gold leaf?

I appreciate any help.

Jack Wyatt




Aidrian Bridgeman-Sutton
 

Jack 

Pullman ( or "Brewster") Green came into use in February 1900;.The old Pullman colour was indeed a dark brown - UPS brown is officially described as "Pullman Brown" so that gives you an idea of the colour. t Pullman Brown was one of the standard shades offered by paint suppliers and by ACF among others and was used by other roads. Paint charts of the 1900s included chips for both "Old Pullman Color" and "New Pullman Color" .     

Lettering may not be your only challenge, though it's worth noting the use of gold leaf and/or gold transfers for first class cars was a very widespread practice. In the 1890s and early 1900s cars were also often liberally decorated with scrollwork and ornate designs in  the corners and very often everywhere else including the trucks and visible parts of the underframe.Things settled down a bit with the changing taste for slightly simpler lines in 1900s, but even some of the simplified schemes must have taken days to apply  While I dont think there is anything specifically Southern available, there are some good photos of cars with these patterns in the Delaware archives Jackson and Sharp collection

Aidrian 

On Thu, Sep 24, 2020 at 7:57 PM C J Wyatt <cjwyatt@...> wrote:
I assumed that the Southern Railway System's first passenger car color was similar to Pullman Green. Indeed, in a contract dated May 3, 1895 with Pullman Palace Car Company for new passenger cars, the body color is specified as "Pullman Standard furnished by Sherwin Williams Co". However the "standard" may be something else. Pullman expert Arthur D. Dublin said in his Pullman Paint and Lettering Notebook on page 10:

"Until 1900 Pullman cars were painted a rich, thick chocolate brown."

So did Southern in its early days use green or brown? And then we have the question about the color of letters, numbers, and stripes? Gold leaf?

I appreciate any help.

Jack Wyatt


William L Vanderburg
 

In 1916, Charlie Soderstrom joined UPS and selected brown for their uniforms and delivery vehicles. He chose a hue of brown that was similar to “the color used on Pullman rail cars because the color reflected class, elegance, and professionalism – and dirt is less visible on brown uniforms and vehicles,” according to UPS. By 1929 the UPS brown color that you see today was adopted across the company.

On Thu, Sep 24, 2020 at 6:48 PM Matt Bumgarner <tarheelpress@...> wrote:
At the SE Narrow Gauge & Shortline Museum, we have been restoring an 1899 narrow gauge baggage car from the WV Midland Rwy.  We found the original specs from the Jackson & Sharpe records, and the color specified was "Pullman", but as we sanded down siding or removed moulding, all we found was a chocolate brown. 

After more research, we found out indeed that the early "Pullman" color was brown, and around 1910 changed to green.

I can't remember the source, but I remember reading that UPS picked their brown color to match the original "Pullman" brown.

Matt Bumgrner

On Thu, Sep 24, 2020 at 2:57 PM C J Wyatt <cjwyatt@...> wrote:
I assumed that the Southern Railway System's first passenger car color was similar to Pullman Green. Indeed, in a contract dated May 3, 1895 with Pullman Palace Car Company for new passenger cars, the body color is specified as "Pullman Standard furnished by Sherwin Williams Co". However the "standard" may be something else. Pullman expert Arthur D. Dublin said in his Pullman Paint and Lettering Notebook on page 10:

"Until 1900 Pullman cars were painted a rich, thick chocolate brown."

So did Southern in its early days use green or brown? And then we have the question about the color of letters, numbers, and stripes? Gold leaf?

I appreciate any help.

Jack Wyatt