Topics

moderated Poplar series sleepers

Mike Burns
 


It looks like the Piedmont Limited carried heavyweight 6 sec. 6 dbr. sleepers in the mid to late 1950's. I believe that this floor plan was named in the Poplar series. Does anyone know the names of some of the cars or if they were painted in the Southern Railway or Pullman company scheme? Thanks, Mike Burns

O Fenton Wells
 

These were probably Pullman pool cars or cars from connecting railroads as SR had no "Poplar" series cars, at least in the 1953 ORER.
fenton

On Tue, Jan 28, 2020 at 10:03 AM Mike Burns via Groups.Io <randmburns=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

It looks like the Piedmont Limited carried heavyweight 6 sec. 6 dbr. sleepers in the mid to late 1950's. I believe that this floor plan was named in the Poplar series. Does anyone know the names of some of the cars or if they were painted in the Southern Railway or Pullman company scheme? Thanks, Mike Burns



--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...

O Fenton Wells
 

Oops, make that the Nov 1951 ORER


On Tue, Jan 28, 2020 at 10:18 AM O Fenton Wells <srrfan1401@...> wrote:
These were probably Pullman pool cars or cars from connecting railroads as SR had no "Poplar" series cars, at least in the 1953 ORER.
fenton

On Tue, Jan 28, 2020 at 10:03 AM Mike Burns via Groups.Io <randmburns=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

It looks like the Piedmont Limited carried heavyweight 6 sec. 6 dbr. sleepers in the mid to late 1950's. I believe that this floor plan was named in the Poplar series. Does anyone know the names of some of the cars or if they were painted in the Southern Railway or Pullman company scheme? Thanks, Mike Burns



--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...

Aidrian Bridgeman-Sutton
 

Mike 

No Southern owned cars in the Poplar series but PRR had these cars and leased them back to Pullman

Poplar Glen
Poplar Hill
Poplar Knoll
Poplar Pike
Poplar Point
Poplar View
Poplar Arbor
Poplar Country
Poplar Gorge
Poplar Isle
Poplar Range
Poplar Realm
Poplar Vale

Poplar Vale was wrecked in 1951, but the rest soldiered on into the early 1960s  SAL and ACL had some too, as did some roads further west, but I am inclined to think the PRR cars most likely. 

Aidrian

On Tue, Jan 28, 2020 at 3:03 PM Mike Burns via Groups.Io <randmburns=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

It looks like the Piedmont Limited carried heavyweight 6 sec. 6 dbr. sleepers in the mid to late 1950's. I believe that this floor plan was named in the Poplar series. Does anyone know the names of some of the cars or if they were painted in the Southern Railway or Pullman company scheme? Thanks, Mike Burns

Mike Burns
 

Many thanks for the help. So it’s probably safe to say that the Poplar series cars running

on the Piedmont Limited were in the Pensy Tuscan red scheme, right?

Mike

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Aidrian Bridgeman-Sutton
Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2020 12:11 PM
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Poplar series sleepers

 

Mike 

 

No Southern owned cars in the Poplar series but PRR had these cars and leased them back to Pullman

 

Poplar Glen
Poplar Hill
Poplar Knoll
Poplar Pike
Poplar Point
Poplar View
Poplar Arbor
Poplar Country
Poplar Gorge
Poplar Isle
Poplar Range
Poplar Realm
Poplar Vale

 

Poplar Vale was wrecked in 1951, but the rest soldiered on into the early 1960s  SAL and ACL had some too, as did some roads further west, but I am inclined to think the PRR cars most likely. 

 

Aidrian

 

On Tue, Jan 28, 2020 at 3:03 PM Mike Burns via Groups.Io <randmburns=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:


It looks like the Piedmont Limited carried heavyweight 6 sec. 6 dbr. sleepers in the mid to late 1950's. I believe that this floor plan was named in the Poplar series. Does anyone know the names of some of the cars or if they were painted in the Southern Railway or Pullman company scheme? Thanks, Mike Burns

 

Robert Hanson
 

Not necessarily.

The Pullman Company's Descriptive List of Cars for March of 1961 shows 28 of these cars in Pullman ownership and in the Pullman pool.

Also, any cars that are not needed can be released to the Pullman pool and used on any road as the need arises.

Case in point - the sleeper on the last westbound run of a Pullman car on the Georgia Railroad in 1964 was Bailey's Beach, a New Haven sleeper that had been released by the NH for service in the Pullman pool.

If I had to bet, I'd wager that the Poplar series cars on 33 and 34 were as likely to be painted Pullman green as any other color - maybe more likely.

My two cents' worth.

Bob Hanson
Loganville, GA

-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Burns via Groups.Io <randmburns@...>
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Sent: Tue, Jan 28, 2020 3:04 pm
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Poplar series sleepers

Many thanks for the help. So it’s probably safe to say that the Poplar series cars running
on the Piedmont Limited were in the Pensy Tuscan red scheme, right?
Mike
 
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
 
From: Aidrian Bridgeman-Sutton
Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2020 12:11 PM
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Poplar series sleepers
 
Mike 
 
No Southern owned cars in the Poplar series but PRR had these cars and leased them back to Pullman
 
Poplar Glen
Poplar Hill
Poplar Knoll
Poplar Pike
Poplar Point
Poplar View
Poplar Arbor
Poplar Country
Poplar Gorge
Poplar Isle
Poplar Range
Poplar Realm
Poplar Vale
 
Poplar Vale was wrecked in 1951, but the rest soldiered on into the early 1960s  SAL and ACL had some too, as did some roads further west, but I am inclined to think the PRR cars most likely. 
 
Aidrian
 
On Tue, Jan 28, 2020 at 3:03 PM Mike Burns via Groups.Io <randmburns=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

It looks like the Piedmont Limited carried heavyweight 6 sec. 6 dbr. sleepers in the mid to late 1950's. I believe that this floor plan was named in the Poplar series. Does anyone know the names of some of the cars or if they were painted in the Southern Railway or Pullman company scheme? Thanks, Mike Burns
 

Aidrian Bridgeman-Sutton
 

Tom Madden's excel (and excellent) data base at pullmanproject.com gives the paint diagram numbers and paint dates for all these cars - all seem to be in some form of PRR paint to some version of MDD4973  "Painting, striping and lettering for conventional and streamlined conventional cars assigned to the PRR"  This drawing had a few versions for which I don't have any references,- in all cases the base colour would be Tuscan Red, but you would need to find a copy the drawings to see the details. 

Many of these are held in the Newberry library  At the moment only the drawing for lightweight cars in online, but you should be able to order a copy for the heavyweight cars 


Aidrian

Aidrian Bridgeman-Sutton
 

Sorry I spoke too soon - the h/w cars are also covered online   - see http://collections.carli.illinois.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/nby_pullman/id/3072/rec/51

Aidrian

On Wed, Jan 29, 2020 at 8:49 AM Aidrian Bridgeman-Sutton via Groups.Io <abridgemansutton=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
Tom Madden's excel (and excellent) data base at pullmanproject.com gives the paint diagram numbers and paint dates for all these cars - all seem to be in some form of PRR paint to some version of MDD4973  "Painting, striping and lettering for conventional and streamlined conventional cars assigned to the PRR"  This drawing had a few versions for which I don't have any references,- in all cases the base colour would be Tuscan Red, but you would need to find a copy the drawings to see the details. 

Many of these are held in the Newberry library  At the moment only the drawing for lightweight cars in online, but you should be able to order a copy for the heavyweight cars 


Aidrian

Mike Burns
 

Aidrian,
Thank you very much for taking time to provide
me with this helpful information. I am working on
an HO scale Piedmont consist which will include
a Poplar series car. With this info, my project should
be pretty close to prototype.
Mike


In a message dated 1/29/2020 10:08:24 AM Central Standard Time, abridgemansutton@... writes:

Sorry I spoke too soon - the h/w cars are also covered online   - see http://collections.carli.illinois.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/nby_pullman/id/3072/rec/51

Aidrian

On Wed, Jan 29, 2020 at 8:49 AM Aidrian Bridgeman-Sutton via Groups.Io <abridgemansutton=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
Tom Madden's excel (and excellent) data base at pullmanproject.com gives the paint diagram numbers and paint dates for all these cars - all seem to be in some form of PRR paint to some version of MDD4973  "Painting, striping and lettering for conventional and streamlined conventional cars assigned to the PRR"  This drawing had a few versions for which I don't have any references,- in all cases the base colour would be Tuscan Red, but you would need to find a copy the drawings to see the details. 

Many of these are held in the Newberry library  At the moment only the drawing for lightweight cars in online, but you should be able to order a copy for the heavyweight cars


Aidrian

 


Bill Schafer
 

To help you narrow down exactly when the 6 sec-6 DBR cars operated on 33-34, this is what the passenger timetables indicate:

Feb. 15, 1953 timetable
South - car SR12
North - car L42
New York-New Orleans
10 sec-DR-2 Cpt car

May 17 1953 timetable (the next one issued)
Same car numbers
New York-New Orleans
6 sec-6 DBR car

Nov 20 1955 timetable
South - car SR11
North - car L42
New York-New Orleans
6 sec-6 DBR car

Aug 10 1958
Same car numbers
New York-New Orleans
6 sec-6 DBR car
Last timetable to show 6-6 sleeper

Nov 10 1958
Same car numbers
10 roomette-6 DBR car
New York-New Orleans
First timetable to show lightweight car with these car numbers

SOU also operated a 6-6 briefly on the Ponce de Leon between Cincinnati and Atlanta in 1960-61. See p. 8, 2015-3 TIES Magazine, which features Southern’s 8 section-5 double bedroom cars but also mentions the operation of 6-6s on the Ponce. This issue of TIES traces the 8-5s throughout SOU’s operation of them - where they operated, what trains they operated on, pictures of them in service, etc. As Fenton mentioned, SOU owned no 6-6s, but probably depended on Pullman pool cars. PRR cars would be a likely guess, but other eastern railroads that leased 6-6s to Pullman were NYC, SAL, and ACL. 

I didn’t check all the timetables, but the July 1955 timetable lists 6-6s only on the Piedmont Limited. Since SOU didn’t own any, their appearance on SOU trains was rather rare.

—Bill


On Jan 28, 2020, at 3:04 PM, Mike Burns via Groups.Io <randmburns@...> wrote:

Many thanks for the help. So it’s probably safe to say that the Poplar series cars running
on the Piedmont Limited were in the Pensy Tuscan red scheme, right?
Mike
 
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
 
From: Aidrian Bridgeman-Sutton
Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2020 12:11 PM
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Poplar series sleepers
 
Mike 
 
No Southern owned cars in the Poplar series but PRR had these cars and leased them back to Pullman
 
Poplar Glen
Poplar Hill
Poplar Knoll
Poplar Pike
Poplar Point
Poplar View
Poplar Arbor
Poplar Country
Poplar Gorge
Poplar Isle
Poplar Range
Poplar Realm
Poplar Vale
 
Poplar Vale was wrecked in 1951, but the rest soldiered on into the early 1960s  SAL and ACL had some too, as did some roads further west, but I am inclined to think the PRR cars most likely. 
 
Aidrian
 
On Tue, Jan 28, 2020 at 3:03 PM Mike Burns via Groups.Io <randmburns=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

It looks like the Piedmont Limited carried heavyweight 6 sec. 6 dbr. sleepers in the mid to late 1950's. I believe that this floor plan was named in the Poplar series. Does anyone know the names of some of the cars or if they were painted in the Southern Railway or Pullman company scheme? Thanks, Mike Burns 

 
<F4006B0E061D4A42B22F3C1C097C9206.png>

Bill Schafer
 

Pullman green, maybe, but two-tone gray more likely. Most pictures I have seen of pool cars on SOU in the 1950s are gray.

On Jan 28, 2020, at 4:08 PM, Robert Hanson via Groups.Io <RHanson669@...> wrote:

Not necessarily.

The Pullman Company's Descriptive List of Cars for March of 1961 shows 28 of these cars in Pullman ownership and in the Pullman pool.

Also, any cars that are not needed can be released to the Pullman pool and used on any road as the need arises.

Case in point - the sleeper on the last westbound run of a Pullman car on the Georgia Railroad in 1964 was Bailey's Beach, a New Haven sleeper that had been released by the NH for service in the Pullman pool.

If I had to bet, I'd wager that the Poplar series cars on 33 and 34 were as likely to be painted Pullman green as any other color - maybe more likely.

My two cents' worth.

Bob Hanson
Loganville, GA

-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Burns via Groups.Io <randmburns@...>
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Sent: Tue, Jan 28, 2020 3:04 pm
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Poplar series sleepers

Many thanks for the help. So it’s probably safe to say that the Poplar series cars running
on the Piedmont Limited were in the Pensy Tuscan red scheme, right?
Mike
 
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
 
From: Aidrian Bridgeman-Sutton
Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2020 12:11 PM
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Poplar series sleepers
 
Mike 
 
No Southern owned cars in the Poplar series but PRR had these cars and leased them back to Pullman
 
Poplar Glen
Poplar Hill
Poplar Knoll
Poplar Pike
Poplar Point
Poplar View
Poplar Arbor
Poplar Country
Poplar Gorge
Poplar Isle
Poplar Range
Poplar Realm
Poplar Vale
 
Poplar Vale was wrecked in 1951, but the rest soldiered on into the early 1960s  SAL and ACL had some too, as did some roads further west, but I am inclined to think the PRR cars most likely. 
 
Aidrian
 
On Tue, Jan 28, 2020 at 3:03 PM Mike Burns via Groups.Io <randmburns=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

It looks like the Piedmont Limited carried heavyweight 6 sec. 6 dbr. sleepers in the mid to late 1950's. I believe that this floor plan was named in the Poplar series. Does anyone know the names of some of the cars or if they were painted in the Southern Railway or Pullman company scheme? Thanks, Mike Burns 
 


Robert Hanson
 

Good point, Bill.

The SAL Pullmans of the period were two-tone gray.

Bob Hanson


-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Schafer <bill4501@...>
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Sent: Wed, Jan 29, 2020 3:41 pm
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Poplar series sleepers

Pullman green, maybe, but two-tone gray more likely. Most pictures I have seen of pool cars on SOU in the 1950s are gray.

On Jan 28, 2020, at 4:08 PM, Robert Hanson via Groups.Io <RHanson669@...> wrote:

Not necessarily.

The Pullman Company's Descriptive List of Cars for March of 1961 shows 28 of these cars in Pullman ownership and in the Pullman pool.

Also, any cars that are not needed can be released to the Pullman pool and used on any road as the need arises.

Case in point - the sleeper on the last westbound run of a Pullman car on the Georgia Railroad in 1964 was Bailey's Beach, a New Haven sleeper that had been released by the NH for service in the Pullman pool.

If I had to bet, I'd wager that the Poplar series cars on 33 and 34 were as likely to be painted Pullman green as any other color - maybe more likely.

My two cents' worth.

Bob Hanson
Loganville, GA

-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Burns via Groups.Io <randmburns@...>
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Sent: Tue, Jan 28, 2020 3:04 pm
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Poplar series sleepers

Many thanks for the help. So it’s probably safe to say that the Poplar series cars running
on the Piedmont Limited were in the Pensy Tuscan red scheme, right?
Mike
 
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
 
From: Aidrian Bridgeman-Sutton
Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2020 12:11 PM
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Poplar series sleepers
 
Mike 
 
No Southern owned cars in the Poplar series but PRR had these cars and leased them back to Pullman
 
Poplar Glen
Poplar Hill
Poplar Knoll
Poplar Pike
Poplar Point
Poplar View
Poplar Arbor
Poplar Country
Poplar Gorge
Poplar Isle
Poplar Range
Poplar Realm
Poplar Vale
 
Poplar Vale was wrecked in 1951, but the rest soldiered on into the early 1960s  SAL and ACL had some too, as did some roads further west, but I am inclined to think the PRR cars most likely. 
 
Aidrian
 
On Tue, Jan 28, 2020 at 3:03 PM Mike Burns via Groups.Io <randmburns=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

It looks like the Piedmont Limited carried heavyweight 6 sec. 6 dbr. sleepers in the mid to late 1950's. I believe that this floor plan was named in the Poplar series. Does anyone know the names of some of the cars or if they were painted in the Southern Railway or Pullman company scheme? Thanks, Mike Burns