locked Pulpwood and Line In Boxcars


Tom Holley
 

Hello, list.

Right after WWII, a lot of the Southern roads pressed boxcars into pulpwood service, as there weren't sufficient woodracks.. Do any of you know of any photos of pulpwood being loaded in boxcars?

Also, after the Southern bought the Central of Georgia, a number of older CG 40 foot boxcars had the doors removed and were used in bulk lime service. Again, any idea for photos?

Regards,

Tom Holley


George Eichelberger
 

I am certain Central of Georgia box cars, without doors, were used in lime service. I have taken, but not found, photos of either CG or Southern cars carrying lime but I will keep looking. The Hayne Shop records show some 50' cars in lime service but they may have been roof hatch cars.

One reason why I sure 40' cars were used is because seeing box cars with no doors was unusual. There is no official drawing but the Central applied a small (3" letters?) stencil to the right of the door that said something like "lime service, no doors, do not bad order".

Bulk fertilizer or untreated hides ("tankage") were supposed to be shipped only in the lowest class box cars as they contaminated the car. Box cars at that point were one step from the scrap line. As no "modifications" were done, there are no shop records or car assignments that tell us which cars were in that kind of service. Given the condition of the cars, I suspect they were not in that service very long.

I am not aware of box cars being used for pulpwood although "never say never". While shortages of wood racks were not uncommon, unloading facilities at mills would have had a difficult time dealing with box cars. Even with inexpensive labor, the time to load and unload box cars by hand would have made it uneconomical.

Ike


T
 

Hi,

In the 90’s I worked with an older gentleman who told of his first summer job in Downtown iuka Mississippi was loading “logs” by hand into Boxcars.  I asked him if he was sure it was a boxcar and not like a pulpwood flat. He said they had doors and you had to turn right of left when you got the log into the car. They grabbed the logs and ran up a ramp into the boxcar. He was born in about 30 and so this would have been late 40s may be 50s I’m thinking. His story was confirmed by another older fellow who worked with us who said the name of the fellow who had this as a full time job. He said that fellow could flat out load logs. Some other younger folk confirmed they had heard the “story”.

Tom Gregory

Iuka Mississippi.

 

From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io [mailto:main@SouthernRailway.groups.io] On Behalf Of George Eichelberger
Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2020 7:45 AM
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Pulpwood and Line In Boxcars

 

I am certain Central of Georgia box cars, without doors, were used in lime service. I have taken, but not found, photos of either CG or Southern cars carrying lime but I will keep looking. The Hayne Shop records show some 50' cars in lime service but they may have been roof hatch cars.

One reason why I sure 40' cars were used is because seeing box cars with no doors was unusual. There is no official drawing but the Central applied a small (3" letters?) stencil to the right of the door that said something like "lime service, no doors, do not bad order".

Bulk fertilizer or untreated hides ("tankage") were supposed to be shipped only in the lowest class box cars as they contaminated the car. Box cars at that point were one step from the scrap line. As no "modifications" were done, there are no shop records or car assignments that tell us which cars were in that kind of service. Given the condition of the cars, I suspect they were not in that service very long.

I am not aware of box cars being used for pulpwood although "never say never". While shortages of wood racks were not uncommon, unloading facilities at mills would have had a difficult time dealing with box cars. Even with inexpensive labor, the time to load and unload box cars by hand would have made it uneconomical.

Ike


Sam Smith
 

The Official Railroad Equipment Register's of the 1970's and possibly prior to then, specifically denotes cars assigned to "tankage" or "hide" service. 

Samuel Smith


On Wed, Sep 9, 2020 at 8:44 AM, George Eichelberger
<geichelberger@...> wrote:
I am certain Central of Georgia box cars, without doors, were used in lime service. I have taken, but not found, photos of either CG or Southern cars carrying lime but I will keep looking. The Hayne Shop records show some 50' cars in lime service but they may have been roof hatch cars.

One reason why I sure 40' cars were used is because seeing box cars with no doors was unusual. There is no official drawing but the Central applied a small (3" letters?) stencil to the right of the door that said something like "lime service, no doors, do not bad order".

Bulk fertilizer or untreated hides ("tankage") were supposed to be shipped only in the lowest class box cars as they contaminated the car. Box cars at that point were one step from the scrap line. As no "modifications" were done, there are no shop records or car assignments that tell us which cars were in that kind of service. Given the condition of the cars, I suspect they were not in that service very long.

I am not aware of box cars being used for pulpwood although "never say never". While shortages of wood racks were not uncommon, unloading facilities at mills would have had a difficult time dealing with box cars. Even with inexpensive labor, the time to load and unload box cars by hand would have made it uneconomical.

Ike


O Fenton Wells
 

If you google pulpwood you will see many boxcars loaded with pulpwood like attached.
Fenton

On Wed, Sep 9, 2020 at 9:46 AM T <tom@...> wrote:

Hi,

In the 90’s I worked with an older gentleman who told of his first summer job in Downtown iuka Mississippi was loading “logs” by hand into Boxcars.  I asked him if he was sure it was a boxcar and not like a pulpwood flat. He said they had doors and you had to turn right of left when you got the log into the car. They grabbed the logs and ran up a ramp into the boxcar. He was born in about 30 and so this would have been late 40s may be 50s I’m thinking. His story was confirmed by another older fellow who worked with us who said the name of the fellow who had this as a full time job. He said that fellow could flat out load logs. Some other younger folk confirmed they had heard the “story”.

Tom Gregory

Iuka Mississippi.

 

From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io [mailto:main@SouthernRailway.groups.io] On Behalf Of George Eichelberger
Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2020 7:45 AM
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Pulpwood and Line In Boxcars

 

I am certain Central of Georgia box cars, without doors, were used in lime service. I have taken, but not found, photos of either CG or Southern cars carrying lime but I will keep looking. The Hayne Shop records show some 50' cars in lime service but they may have been roof hatch cars.

One reason why I sure 40' cars were used is because seeing box cars with no doors was unusual. There is no official drawing but the Central applied a small (3" letters?) stencil to the right of the door that said something like "lime service, no doors, do not bad order".

Bulk fertilizer or untreated hides ("tankage") were supposed to be shipped only in the lowest class box cars as they contaminated the car. Box cars at that point were one step from the scrap line. As no "modifications" were done, there are no shop records or car assignments that tell us which cars were in that kind of service. Given the condition of the cars, I suspect they were not in that service very long.

I am not aware of box cars being used for pulpwood although "never say never". While shortages of wood racks were not uncommon, unloading facilities at mills would have had a difficult time dealing with box cars. Even with inexpensive labor, the time to load and unload box cars by hand would have made it uneconomical.

Ike



--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


A&Y Dave in MD
 

Ike,

Here is the list of cars transporting Lime in 1934 on the W-S division (notes on car type are based upon car number from Al Brown's first try and are preliminary and not guaranteed, tons are listed by Conductor Snow and are just copied verbatim):



There were two SU 36' Southern cars (out of 7000+ in database) listed by Conductor Snow with "wood" as contents but that does NOT mean pulp wood. In the 20's and early 30's it is my understanding that there were no pulpwood racks on the Southern.  So how did pulpwood get transported prior to racks?   Low side gons?  The W-S database from Conductor Snow cannot tell us.

As for hides, there were a few more as North Wilkesboro had a tannery and I think a shoe factory (at least they got leather dye in tank cars from a shoe dye firm as well as hides):



Dave

Wednesday, September 9, 2020, 8:44:31 AM, you wrote:


I am certain Central of Georgia box cars, without doors, were used in lime service. I have taken, but not found, photos of either CG or Southern cars carrying lime but I will keep looking. The Hayne Shop records show some 50' cars in lime service but they may have been roof hatch cars.

One reason why I sure 40' cars were used is because seeing box cars with no doors was unusual. There is no official drawing but the Central applied a small (3" letters?) stencil to the right of the door that said something like "lime service, no doors, do not bad order".

Bulk fertilizer or untreated hides ("tankage") were supposed to be shipped only in the lowest class box cars as they contaminated the car. Box cars at that point were one step from the scrap line. As no "modifications" were done, there are no shop records or car assignments that tell us which cars were in that kind of service. Given the condition of the cars, I suspect they were not in that service very long.

I am not aware of box cars being used for pulpwood although "never say never". While shortages of wood racks were not uncommon, unloading facilities at mills would have had a difficult time dealing with box cars. Even with inexpensive labor, the time to load and unload box cars by hand would have made it uneconomical.

Ike



--
David Bott

Sent from David Bott's desktop PC


Tom Holley
 

Hello, list.

Thanks for the replies, photos, and train lists. As a note, in both the CG and S&A employee timetables, there is note with two different weights for pulpwood. One is the weight loaded in boxcars, and one for the weight loaded on racks. The conductor used this table to figure tonnage until the cars could be scaled.

Also please find a photo of a CG stockcar stenciled "FOR PULPWOOD ONLY".

Regards,

Tom Holley


George Eichelberger
 

Fenton:

Could you provide a Google link for photos showing SOUTHERN box cars handling pulpwood? Loading pulpwood in box cars and gondolas in the Northeast and Upper midwest has been pretty well documented but as this is this list discusses the Southern Railway (thus my answer), those are the photos I’d be interested in seeing.

Ike


On Sep 9, 2020, at 9:55 AM, O Fenton Wells <SRRFAN1401@...> wrote:

If you google pulpwood you will see many boxcars loaded with pulpwood like attached.
Fenton

On Wed, Sep 9, 2020 at 9:46 AM T <tom@...> wrote:

Hi,

In the 90’s I worked with an older gentleman who told of his first summer job in Downtown iuka Mississippi was loading “logs” by hand into Boxcars.  I asked him if he was sure it was a boxcar and not like a pulpwood flat. He said they had doors and you had to turn right of left when you got the log into the car. They grabbed the logs and ran up a ramp into the boxcar. He was born in about 30 and so this would have been late 40s may be 50s I’m thinking. His story was confirmed by another older fellow who worked with us who said the name of the fellow who had this as a full time job. He said that fellow could flat out load logs. Some other younger folk confirmed they had heard the “story”.

Tom Gregory

Iuka Mississippi.

 

From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io [mailto:main@SouthernRailway.groups.io] On Behalf Of George Eichelberger
Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2020 7:45 AM
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Pulpwood and Line In Boxcars

 

I am certain Central of Georgia box cars, without doors, were used in lime service. I have taken, but not found, photos of either CG or Southern cars carrying lime but I will keep looking. The Hayne Shop records show some 50' cars in lime service but they may have been roof hatch cars.

One reason why I sure 40' cars were used is because seeing box cars with no doors was unusual. There is no official drawing but the Central applied a small (3" letters?) stencil to the right of the door that said something like "lime service, no doors, do not bad order".

Bulk fertilizer or untreated hides ("tankage") were supposed to be shipped only in the lowest class box cars as they contaminated the car. Box cars at that point were one step from the scrap line. As no "modifications" were done, there are no shop records or car assignments that tell us which cars were in that kind of service. Given the condition of the cars, I suspect they were not in that service very long.

I am not aware of box cars being used for pulpwood although "never say never". While shortages of wood racks were not uncommon, unloading facilities at mills would have had a difficult time dealing with box cars. Even with inexpensive labor, the time to load and unload box cars by hand would have made it uneconomical.

Ike





--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...
<BkUl12sCMAA5GFw - Copy.jpg><railwood.jpg>


George Eichelberger
 

Dave:

Do the switch lists describe if the lime is bagged? I don’t think we’d see off-line cars on the Southern in bulk lime service? Does anyone know….would box cars without doors be accepted in interchange in 1934?

The cars with no doors were, I expect, only used for on-line shipments in bulk. That is all I ever saw in those cars in the 70s.

Ike



On Sep 9, 2020, at 10:22 AM, A&Y Dave in MD <dbott@...> wrote:

Ike,

Here is the list of cars transporting Lime in 1934 on the W-S division (notes on car type are based upon car number from Al Brown's first try and are preliminary and not guaranteed, tons are listed by Conductor Snow and are just copied verbatim):

<int_1.png>

There were two SU 36' Southern cars (out of 7000+ in database) listed by Conductor Snow with "wood" as contents but that does NOT mean pulp wood. In the 20's and early 30's it is my understanding that there were no pulpwood racks on the Southern.  So how did pulpwood get transported prior to racks?   Low side gons?  The W-S database from Conductor Snow cannot tell us.

As for hides, there were a few more as North Wilkesboro had a tannery and I think a shoe factory (at least they got leather dye in tank cars from a shoe dye firm as well as hides):

<int_2.png>

Dave

Wednesday, September 9, 2020, 8:44:31 AM, you wrote:


I am certain Central of Georgia box cars, without doors, were used in lime service. I have taken, but not found, photos of either CG or Southern cars carrying lime but I will keep looking. The Hayne Shop records show some 50' cars in lime service but they may have been roof hatch cars.

One reason why I sure 40' cars were used is because seeing box cars with no doors was unusual. There is no official drawing but the Central applied a small (3" letters?) stencil to the right of the door that said something like "lime service, no doors, do not bad order".

Bulk fertilizer or untreated hides ("tankage") were supposed to be shipped only in the lowest class box cars as they contaminated the car. Box cars at that point were one step from the scrap line. As no "modifications" were done, there are no shop records or car assignments that tell us which cars were in that kind of service. Given the condition of the cars, I suspect they were not in that service very long.

I am not aware of box cars being used for pulpwood although "never say never". While shortages of wood racks were not uncommon, unloading facilities at mills would have had a difficult time dealing with box cars. Even with inexpensive labor, the time to load and unload box cars by hand would have made it uneconomical.

Ike



--
David Bott

Sent from David Bott's desktop PC


O Fenton Wells
 

Ike I think lots of modelers would. From what I’ve found SR started building pulpwood racks from the 115XXX, 117XXX flat cars in the 1920’s. By the late 1940’s and 1950’s I doubt much SR pulpwood moved in boxcars. 
I’ve seen no evidence of it but I’ll bet there was some in box or stock cars when convenient or necessary 
Fenton 


On Sep 9, 2020, at 1:38 PM, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:

Dave:

Do the switch lists describe if the lime is bagged? I don’t think we’d see off-line cars on the Southern in bulk lime service? Does anyone know….would box cars without doors be accepted in interchange in 1934?

The cars with no doors were, I expect, only used for on-line shipments in bulk. That is all I ever saw in those cars in the 70s.

Ike



On Sep 9, 2020, at 10:22 AM, A&Y Dave in MD <dbott@...> wrote:

Ike,

Here is the list of cars transporting Lime in 1934 on the W-S division (notes on car type are based upon car number from Al Brown's first try and are preliminary and not guaranteed, tons are listed by Conductor Snow and are just copied verbatim):

<int_1.png>

There were two SU 36' Southern cars (out of 7000+ in database) listed by Conductor Snow with "wood" as contents but that does NOT mean pulp wood. In the 20's and early 30's it is my understanding that there were no pulpwood racks on the Southern.  So how did pulpwood get transported prior to racks?   Low side gons?  The W-S database from Conductor Snow cannot tell us.

As for hides, there were a few more as North Wilkesboro had a tannery and I think a shoe factory (at least they got leather dye in tank cars from a shoe dye firm as well as hides):

<int_2.png>

Dave

Wednesday, September 9, 2020, 8:44:31 AM, you wrote:


I am certain Central of Georgia box cars, without doors, were used in lime service. I have taken, but not found, photos of either CG or Southern cars carrying lime but I will keep looking. The Hayne Shop records show some 50' cars in lime service but they may have been roof hatch cars.

One reason why I sure 40' cars were used is because seeing box cars with no doors was unusual. There is no official drawing but the Central applied a small (3" letters?) stencil to the right of the door that said something like "lime service, no doors, do not bad order".

Bulk fertilizer or untreated hides ("tankage") were supposed to be shipped only in the lowest class box cars as they contaminated the car. Box cars at that point were one step from the scrap line. As no "modifications" were done, there are no shop records or car assignments that tell us which cars were in that kind of service. Given the condition of the cars, I suspect they were not in that service very long.

I am not aware of box cars being used for pulpwood although "never say never". While shortages of wood racks were not uncommon, unloading facilities at mills would have had a difficult time dealing with box cars. Even with inexpensive labor, the time to load and unload box cars by hand would have made it uneconomical.

Ike



--
David Bott

Sent from David Bott's desktop PC


A&Y Dave in MD
 

No description on the way the lime was contained.  No idea if it was bulk or bagged. 

Dave

Sent from Dave Bott' iPhone

On Sep 9, 2020, at 1:38 PM, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:

Dave:

Do the switch lists describe if the lime is bagged? I don’t think we’d see off-line cars on the Southern in bulk lime service? Does anyone know….would box cars without doors be accepted in interchange in 1934?

The cars with no doors were, I expect, only used for on-line shipments in bulk. That is all I ever saw in those cars in the 70s.

Ike



On Sep 9, 2020, at 10:22 AM, A&Y Dave in MD <dbott@...> wrote:

Ike,

Here is the list of cars transporting Lime in 1934 on the W-S division (notes on car type are based upon car number from Al Brown's first try and are preliminary and not guaranteed, tons are listed by Conductor Snow and are just copied verbatim):

<int_1.png>

There were two SU 36' Southern cars (out of 7000+ in database) listed by Conductor Snow with "wood" as contents but that does NOT mean pulp wood. In the 20's and early 30's it is my understanding that there were no pulpwood racks on the Southern.  So how did pulpwood get transported prior to racks?   Low side gons?  The W-S database from Conductor Snow cannot tell us.

As for hides, there were a few more as North Wilkesboro had a tannery and I think a shoe factory (at least they got leather dye in tank cars from a shoe dye firm as well as hides):

<int_2.png>

Dave

Wednesday, September 9, 2020, 8:44:31 AM, you wrote:


I am certain Central of Georgia box cars, without doors, were used in lime service. I have taken, but not found, photos of either CG or Southern cars carrying lime but I will keep looking. The Hayne Shop records show some 50' cars in lime service but they may have been roof hatch cars.

One reason why I sure 40' cars were used is because seeing box cars with no doors was unusual. There is no official drawing but the Central applied a small (3" letters?) stencil to the right of the door that said something like "lime service, no doors, do not bad order".

Bulk fertilizer or untreated hides ("tankage") were supposed to be shipped only in the lowest class box cars as they contaminated the car. Box cars at that point were one step from the scrap line. As no "modifications" were done, there are no shop records or car assignments that tell us which cars were in that kind of service. Given the condition of the cars, I suspect they were not in that service very long.

I am not aware of box cars being used for pulpwood although "never say never". While shortages of wood racks were not uncommon, unloading facilities at mills would have had a difficult time dealing with box cars. Even with inexpensive labor, the time to load and unload box cars by hand would have made it uneconomical.

Ike



--
David Bott

Sent from David Bott's desktop PC


O Fenton Wells
 

Regarding the early pulpwood rack conversions I was wrong on my first dates.  Here is a spreadsheet from my pulpwood clinic
Southern Ry Pulpwood Racks -  Flat car conversions
Car No. Series No. of Cars Converted From Blt. Date In. Length Yr. Converted Comments
115000-116599 (SR) 267 115XXX-116XXX 40 ft flat cars 1926 35'-2" 1934-1937 For Champion Paper, Canton NC
117500-117999(SR) 201 117XXX flat cars 1926 35'-2" 1934-1937 For Champion Paper, Canton NC
325000-325579(NO&NE) 30 325XXX flat cars 1926 35'-2" 1934-1937 For Masonite Corp, Laurel MS
300230-300472(AGS) 40 300XXX flat cars 1926 35'-2" 1934-1937 For Gulf States Paper, Tuscaloosa AL
Southern Ry Pulpwood Racks -  SU Boxcar conversions
Car No. Series No. of Cars Converted From Blt. Date In. Length Yr. Converted Comments
114000-114999 (SR) 1000 SU boxcars 1922 35'-4" 1940-1951 ** 100 in '40, 275 by '42, 1000 by'46
124000-125559 (SR) 1500 SU boxcars 1925 36'-4" 1940-1951 83 by '47, 1123 by July 1950
301000-301099 (AGS) 100 SU boxcars 1926 36'-4" 1940-1951 100 by July 1950
326000-326009 (NO&NE) 10 SU boxcars 1927 36'-4" 1940-1951 10 by April 1951
414000-414099 (GSF) 100 SU boxcars 1928 36'-4" 1940-1951 100 by April '51
** No conversions were done during WWII
--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


John M. Ware, P.E.
 

Central of Georgia Pulpwood Cars (Box Cars)

   CG converted approx 1300 36 ft Vent Box cars to Pulpwood rack cars in 1953=/-Information on the conversion is featured in the Jan-Mar 2007 issue of The Right Way magazine. The Customer Load requirements are in the July-Sept 2009 issue.

 

John Ware

 

From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io [mailto:main@SouthernRailway.groups.io] On Behalf Of George Eichelberger
Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2020 8:45 AM
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Pulpwood and Line In Boxcars

 

I am certain Central of Georgia box cars, without doors, were used in lime service. I have taken, but not found, photos of either CG or Southern cars carrying lime but I will keep looking. The Hayne Shop records show some 50' cars in lime service but they may have been roof hatch cars.

One reason why I sure 40' cars were used is because seeing box cars with no doors was unusual. There is no official drawing but the Central applied a small (3" letters?) stencil to the right of the door that said something like "lime service, no doors, do not bad order".

Bulk fertilizer or untreated hides ("tankage") were supposed to be shipped only in the lowest class box cars as they contaminated the car. Box cars at that point were one step from the scrap line. As no "modifications" were done, there are no shop records or car assignments that tell us which cars were in that kind of service. Given the condition of the cars, I suspect they were not in that service very long.

I am not aware of box cars being used for pulpwood although "never say never". While shortages of wood racks were not uncommon, unloading facilities at mills would have had a difficult time dealing with box cars. Even with inexpensive labor, the time to load and unload box cars by hand would have made it uneconomical.

Ike


Charles Powell
 

I grew up next to the K&0 line west of Knoxville in the early 60s and remember the boxcars with no doors. The lime was piled in bulk in each end of the car. Seemed like it was seasonal as in early spring time and there would be blocks of cars leaving a white cloud in their wake. A lot of it came as a byproduct of the zinc mines up north of Knoxville around Mascot, TN. Another service for old boxcars on their way out was cotton seed service. Once the car was loaded with cotton seed the oil would soak into the lining and contaminate other products loaded in the cars later.