locked Samuel Spencer


James Walton
 

Hi everyone, I have a few questions on Spencer:

I know he claimed to have served in the Confederate army, but I can't seem to find what unit he served with. Does anyone know the answer to this?

Details of his personal life are quite scarce. Does anyone know anything regarding his personality, political views, interests, or anything of that nature?


C J Wyatt
 

Nelson Rangers - Georgia:


Probably did not join until early 1864. See manuscript reference to his letters:


Prior to the Nelson Rangers, he was a cadet at the Georgian Military Institute, company B:


Some have questions about whether part of his service was made up, but most Confederate cavalry units did not keep good service records and burned most of the ones they had by the end of the war. I think the account of his service is truthful.

Jack Wyatt






On Wednesday, December 18, 2019, 10:42:15 PM EST, James Walton <whovianwil@...> wrote:


Hi everyone, I have a few questions on Spencer:

I know he claimed to have served in the Confederate army, but I can't seem to find what unit he served with. Does anyone know the answer to this?

Details of his personal life are quite scarce. Does anyone know anything regarding his personality, political views, interests, or anything of that nature?


Robert Hanson
 

According to a biography in my collection that was issued at the dedication of the Spencer Memorial in 1910, Samuel Spencer also served at Vicksburg and later under General Nathan Bedford Forrest.  He also served under General Hood in the Atlanta and Nashville campaigns.

The biography makes no mention of his rank, other than the fact that he enlisted as a private at the age of 16, probably in 1863, as his birthday was March 2nd.

Bob Hanson
Loganville, GA


-----Original Message-----
From: C J Wyatt <cjwyatt@...>
To: main <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Sent: Thu, Dec 19, 2019 1:10 am
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Samuel Spencer

Nelson Rangers - Georgia:


Probably did not join until early 1864. See manuscript reference to his letters:


Prior to the Nelson Rangers, he was a cadet at the Georgian Military Institute, company B:


Some have questions about whether part of his service was made up, but most Confederate cavalry units did not keep good service records and burned most of the ones they had by the end of the war. I think the account of his service is truthful.

Jack Wyatt






On Wednesday, December 18, 2019, 10:42:15 PM EST, James Walton <whovianwil@...> wrote:


Hi everyone, I have a few questions on Spencer:

I know he claimed to have served in the Confederate army, but I can't seem to find what unit he served with. Does anyone know the answer to this?

Details of his personal life are quite scarce. Does anyone know anything regarding his personality, political views, interests, or anything of that nature?


George Eichelberger
 

I understand there is now a question about what to do with Mr. Spencer’s statue that sits in front of the David Goode building in Atlanta. SRHA members have suggested its proper home is at the shops at Spencer, NC. Although some have mentioned moving it to TVRM, I think the consensus (for what it is worth) is that Spencer is the proper place if not at the NS headquarters.

We have NS President Wick Moorman to thank for making the effort to retrieve the statue from obscurity in Atlanta and moving it to Goode building. In my personal opinion, any railroad or corporation that forgets or ignores its history (NS, in all of its predecessors has as much as anyone) is “pulling the pin” on what has gone before.

(BTW) In the SRHA file on the statue’s dedication, it mentions how SR employees paid for it with deductions from their pay envelopes. The “chits” employees signed for the deductions were sealed in a box below the statue. When the statue’s base was moved, the box was located and opened. Unfortunately, water had entered it long ago and the chits were simply a mass of rotten paper. While the effort failed, it was a fine example of NS wanting to preserve its past.



On Dec 19, 2019, at 8:18 AM, Robert Hanson via Groups.Io <RHanson669@...> wrote:

According to a biography in my collection that was issued at the dedication of the Spencer Memorial in 1910, Samuel Spencer also served at Vicksburg and later under General Nathan Bedford Forrest.  He also served under General Hood in the Atlanta and Nashville campaigns.

The biography makes no mention of his rank, other than the fact that he enlisted as a private at the age of 16, probably in 1863, as his birthday was March 2nd.

Bob Hanson
Loganville, GA


-----Original Message-----
From: C J Wyatt <cjwyatt@...>
To: main <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Sent: Thu, Dec 19, 2019 1:10 am
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Samuel Spencer

Nelson Rangers - Georgia:


Probably did not join until early 1864. See manuscript reference to his letters:


Prior to the Nelson Rangers, he was a cadet at the Georgian Military Institute, company B:


Some have questions about whether part of his service was made up, but most Confederate cavalry units did not keep good service records and burned most of the ones they had by the end of the war. I think the account of his service is truthful.

Jack Wyatt






On Wednesday, December 18, 2019, 10:42:15 PM EST, James Walton <whovianwil@...> wrote:


Hi everyone, I have a few questions on Spencer:

I know he claimed to have served in the Confederate army, but I can't seem to find what unit he served with. Does anyone know the answer to this?

Details of his personal life are quite scarce. Does anyone know anything regarding his personality, political views, interests, or anything of that nature?


C J Wyatt
 

Thank you Bob for that information.

I think the Vicksburg credit is wrong. The unit which he later joined, Nelson Rangers, was part of the Vicksburg campaign. However at the time that Vicksburg took place,  Samuel Spencer appears to have been at at GMI. I think his first combat likely was at Resaca with the GMI Cadets and sometime during the Atlanta Campaign he probably switched over to Nelson Rangers. The answer might be in the letters at the Atlanta History Center. Maybe I can get down there sometime and look.

Jack Wyatt

On Thursday, December 19, 2019, 08:18:34 AM EST, Robert Hanson via Groups.Io <rhanson669@...> wrote:


According to a biography in my collection that was issued at the dedication of the Spencer Memorial in 1910, Samuel Spencer also served at Vicksburg and later under General Nathan Bedford Forrest.  He also served under General Hood in the Atlanta and Nashville campaigns.

The biography makes no mention of his rank, other than the fact that he enlisted as a private at the age of 16, probably in 1863, as his birthday was March 2nd.

Bob Hanson
Loganville, GA


-----Original Message-----
From: C J Wyatt <cjwyatt@...>
To: main <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Sent: Thu, Dec 19, 2019 1:10 am
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Samuel Spencer

Nelson Rangers - Georgia:


Probably did not join until early 1864. See manuscript reference to his letters:


Prior to the Nelson Rangers, he was a cadet at the Georgian Military Institute, company B:


Some have questions about whether part of his service was made up, but most Confederate cavalry units did not keep good service records and burned most of the ones they had by the end of the war. I think the account of his service is truthful.

Jack Wyatt






On Wednesday, December 18, 2019, 10:42:15 PM EST, James Walton <whovianwil@...> wrote:


Hi everyone, I have a few questions on Spencer:

I know he claimed to have served in the Confederate army, but I can't seem to find what unit he served with. Does anyone know the answer to this?

Details of his personal life are quite scarce. Does anyone know anything regarding his personality, political views, interests, or anything of that nature?


C J Wyatt
 

Unfortunately, people are become less likely to judge a historical person by the context of his times. Samuel Spencer was only a teenager at the time seeing his state being invaded by outside forces.

While on the surface, Spencer Shops appears to be the proper place for Samuel, you have to ask where he would he be safe from "the crazies". North Carolina recently allowed the statue of another Confederate soldier named Sam to be pulled down.

I find it sad that the Georgia born Samuel Spencer cannot reside at the NSC headquarters in Georgia. The economic growth in the Southeast which his Southern Railway System facilitated helped to raise the standards of living for all people in the region.

Jack Wyatt

On Thursday, December 19, 2019, 08:45:04 AM EST, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:


I understand there is now a question about what to do with Mr. Spencer’s statue that sits in front of the David Goode building in Atlanta. SRHA members have suggested its proper home is at the shops at Spencer, NC. Although some have mentioned moving it to TVRM, I think the consensus (for what it is worth) is that Spencer is the proper place if not at the NS headquarters.

We have NS President Wick Moorman to thank for making the effort to retrieve the statue from obscurity in Atlanta and moving it to Goode building. In my personal opinion, any railroad or corporation that forgets or ignores its history (NS, in all of its predecessors has as much as anyone) is “pulling the pin” on what has gone before.

(BTW) In the SRHA file on the statue’s dedication, it mentions how SR employees paid for it with deductions from their pay envelopes. The “chits” employees signed for the deductions were sealed in a box below the statue. When the statue’s base was moved, the box was located and opened. Unfortunately, water had entered it long ago and the chits were simply a mass of rotten paper. While the effort failed, it was a fine example of NS wanting to preserve its past.





Robert Hanson
 

Jack, you may be right.

All I had to go on was the biography, apparently given to dignitaries, issued for the dedication of the memorial.

I've done nothing to verify the information, so you'll get no argument from me.

Bob Hanson


-----Original Message-----
From: C J Wyatt <cjwyatt@...>
To: main <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Sent: Thu, Dec 19, 2019 9:52 am
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Samuel Spencer

Thank you Bob for that information.

I think the Vicksburg credit is wrong. The unit which he later joined, Nelson Rangers, was part of the Vicksburg campaign. However at the time that Vicksburg took place,  Samuel Spencer appears to have been at at GMI. I think his first combat likely was at Resaca with the GMI Cadets and sometime during the Atlanta Campaign he probably switched over to Nelson Rangers. The answer might be in the letters at the Atlanta History Center. Maybe I can get down there sometime and look.

Jack Wyatt

On Thursday, December 19, 2019, 08:18:34 AM EST, Robert Hanson via Groups.Io <rhanson669@...> wrote:


According to a biography in my collection that was issued at the dedication of the Spencer Memorial in 1910, Samuel Spencer also served at Vicksburg and later under General Nathan Bedford Forrest.  He also served under General Hood in the Atlanta and Nashville campaigns.

The biography makes no mention of his rank, other than the fact that he enlisted as a private at the age of 16, probably in 1863, as his birthday was March 2nd.

Bob Hanson
Loganville, GA


-----Original Message-----
From: C J Wyatt <cjwyatt@...>
To: main <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Sent: Thu, Dec 19, 2019 1:10 am
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Samuel Spencer

Nelson Rangers - Georgia:


Probably did not join until early 1864. See manuscript reference to his letters:


Prior to the Nelson Rangers, he was a cadet at the Georgian Military Institute, company B:


Some have questions about whether part of his service was made up, but most Confederate cavalry units did not keep good service records and burned most of the ones they had by the end of the war. I think the account of his service is truthful.

Jack Wyatt






On Wednesday, December 18, 2019, 10:42:15 PM EST, James Walton <whovianwil@...> wrote:


Hi everyone, I have a few questions on Spencer:

I know he claimed to have served in the Confederate army, but I can't seem to find what unit he served with. Does anyone know the answer to this?

Details of his personal life are quite scarce. Does anyone know anything regarding his personality, political views, interests, or anything of that nature?


Robert Hanson
 

Apparently I missed something - are they going to move the statue?

I believe that the statue is sitting right where it should sit - in front of the NS building in Atlanta and if it should be moved at all, it should be moved to the new NS corporate HQ building when it is completed.

My opinion - and my opinion, plus $2.00, will get you a copy of an Atlanta newspaper on any weekday.

Bob Hanson


-----Original Message-----
From: C J Wyatt <cjwyatt@...>
To: main <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Sent: Thu, Dec 19, 2019 10:08 am
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Samuel Spencer

Unfortunately, people are become less likely to judge a historical person by the context of his times. Samuel Spencer was only a teenager at the time seeing his state being invaded by outside forces.

While on the surface, Spencer Shops appears to be the proper place for Samuel, you have to ask where he would he be safe from "the crazies". North Carolina recently allowed the statue of another Confederate soldier named Sam to be pulled down.

I find it sad that the Georgia born Samuel Spencer cannot reside at the NSC headquarters in Georgia. The economic growth in the Southeast which his Southern Railway System facilitated helped to raise the standards of living for all people in the region.

Jack Wyatt

On Thursday, December 19, 2019, 08:45:04 AM EST, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:


I understand there is now a question about what to do with Mr. Spencer’s statue that sits in front of the David Goode building in Atlanta. SRHA members have suggested its proper home is at the shops at Spencer, NC. Although some have mentioned moving it to TVRM, I think the consensus (for what it is worth) is that Spencer is the proper place if not at the NS headquarters.

We have NS President Wick Moorman to thank for making the effort to retrieve the statue from obscurity in Atlanta and moving it to Goode building. In my personal opinion, any railroad or corporation that forgets or ignores its history (NS, in all of its predecessors has as much as anyone) is “pulling the pin” on what has gone before.

(BTW) In the SRHA file on the statue’s dedication, it mentions how SR employees paid for it with deductions from their pay envelopes. The “chits” employees signed for the deductions were sealed in a box below the statue. When the statue’s base was moved, the box was located and opened. Unfortunately, water had entered it long ago and the chits were simply a mass of rotten paper. While the effort failed, it was a fine example of NS wanting to preserve its past.





James Walton
 

Does anyone know any details regarding Spencer's personality?


On Thu, Dec 19, 2019, 10:34 Robert Hanson via Groups.Io <RHanson669=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Apparently I missed something - are they going to move the statue?

I believe that the statue is sitting right where it should sit - in front of the NS building in Atlanta and if it should be moved at all, it should be moved to the new NS corporate HQ building when it is completed.

My opinion - and my opinion, plus $2.00, will get you a copy of an Atlanta newspaper on any weekday.

Bob Hanson


-----Original Message-----
From: C J Wyatt <cjwyatt@...>
To: main <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Sent: Thu, Dec 19, 2019 10:08 am
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Samuel Spencer

Unfortunately, people are become less likely to judge a historical person by the context of his times. Samuel Spencer was only a teenager at the time seeing his state being invaded by outside forces.

While on the surface, Spencer Shops appears to be the proper place for Samuel, you have to ask where he would he be safe from "the crazies". North Carolina recently allowed the statue of another Confederate soldier named Sam to be pulled down.

I find it sad that the Georgia born Samuel Spencer cannot reside at the NSC headquarters in Georgia. The economic growth in the Southeast which his Southern Railway System facilitated helped to raise the standards of living for all people in the region.

Jack Wyatt

On Thursday, December 19, 2019, 08:45:04 AM EST, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:


I understand there is now a question about what to do with Mr. Spencer’s statue that sits in front of the David Goode building in Atlanta. SRHA members have suggested its proper home is at the shops at Spencer, NC. Although some have mentioned moving it to TVRM, I think the consensus (for what it is worth) is that Spencer is the proper place if not at the NS headquarters.

We have NS President Wick Moorman to thank for making the effort to retrieve the statue from obscurity in Atlanta and moving it to Goode building. In my personal opinion, any railroad or corporation that forgets or ignores its history (NS, in all of its predecessors has as much as anyone) is “pulling the pin” on what has gone before.

(BTW) In the SRHA file on the statue’s dedication, it mentions how SR employees paid for it with deductions from their pay envelopes. The “chits” employees signed for the deductions were sealed in a box below the statue. When the statue’s base was moved, the box was located and opened. Unfortunately, water had entered it long ago and the chits were simply a mass of rotten paper. While the effort failed, it was a fine example of NS wanting to preserve its past.





Cohen Bob
 

James and all:

As no proper biography exists for Spencer that I have seen, I for one would like to see one, and with it, the answer to your query.

He was obviously a capable person and financially astute and after the B&O evicted him from its presidency after one year where he tried to show where B&O's wonder boy John W. Garrett, had been cooking the books for years, those in control of the B&O stock couldn't handle that and he was cast out after just one year and went into the camp of JP Morgan. Morgan placed him as one of the receivers of the Richmond & Danville RR and became SR's first president in 1894 and remained until he was killed in a rear end accident on his own railroad 10 miles south of Lynchburg in late November 1906.

I, too, have often wondered as to his personality and attitudes, especially towards the B&O. Was he above all that or did he have an inward desire to get back at them/it?

I dunno either. would be nice to see somewhere.

I have heard his papers are somewhere in North Carolina, just waiting for someone to do what we ask here.

Bob Cohen


C J Wyatt
 

Yes, I have been a bit surprised that no one has done a book on Samuel Spencer.

Well we know that he liked quail hunting and he apparently enjoyed hanging around the Jekyll Island Club. Paranormal folklore says that his ghost haunts the place and likes to play tricks on guests such as rearranging things.

I hope someone takes up the project.

Jack Wyatt

On Friday, December 20, 2019, 09:46:13 AM EST, Cohen Bob via Groups.Io <orl96782@...> wrote:


James and all:

As no proper biography exists for Spencer that I have seen, I for one would like to see one, and with it, the answer to your query.

He was obviously a capable person and financially astute and after the B&O evicted him from its presidency after one year where he tried to show where B&O's wonder boy John W. Garrett, had been cooking the books for years, those in control of the B&O stock couldn't handle that and he was cast out after just one year and went into the camp of JP Morgan. Morgan placed him as one of the receivers of the Richmond & Danville RR and became SR's first president in 1894 and remained until he was killed in a rear end accident on his own railroad 10 miles south of Lynchburg in late November 1906.

I, too, have often wondered as to his personality and attitudes, especially towards the B&O. Was he above all that or did he have an inward desire to get back at them/it?

I dunno either. would be nice to see somewhere.

I have heard his papers are somewhere in North Carolina, just waiting for someone to do what we ask here.

Bob Cohen


George Eichelberger
 

If anyone is seriously interested in doing research on Samuel Spencer, we moved six file cabinets of his papers out of the basement of the 175 Spring St bldg when NS gave the SR Presidents’ files to SRHA. (With sincere thanks to Mr. David Goode!).

They are available for research at our archives at TVRM.

Ike


On Dec 20, 2019, at 10:33 AM, C J Wyatt <cjwyatt@...> wrote:

Yes, I have been a bit surprised that no one has done a book on Samuel Spencer.

Well we know that he liked quail hunting and he apparently enjoyed hanging around the Jekyll Island Club. Paranormal folklore says that his ghost haunts the place and likes to play tricks on guests such as rearranging things.

I hope someone takes up the project.

Jack Wyatt

On Friday, December 20, 2019, 09:46:13 AM EST, Cohen Bob via Groups.Io <orl96782@...> wrote:


James and all:

As no proper biography exists for Spencer that I have seen, I for one would like to see one, and with it, the answer to your query.

He was obviously a capable person and financially astute and after the B&O evicted him from its presidency after one year where he tried to show where B&O's wonder boy John W. Garrett, had been cooking the books for years, those in control of the B&O stock couldn't handle that and he was cast out after just one year and went into the camp of JP Morgan. Morgan placed him as one of the receivers of the Richmond & Danville RR and became SR's first president in 1894 and remained until he was killed in a rear end accident on his own railroad 10 miles south of Lynchburg in late November 1906.

I, too, have often wondered as to his personality and attitudes, especially towards the B&O. Was he above all that or did he have an inward desire to get back at them/it?

I dunno either. would be nice to see somewhere.

I have heard his papers are somewhere in North Carolina, just waiting for someone to do what we ask here.

Bob Cohen


Cohen Bob
 

Regarding paranormal sightings and such:

While I believe that such things may in fact exist, there usually is a "reason" for their appearance at a location, like the person died there or met an untimely end at that locale. I have never personally experienced such things, but there's always a first time.

Spencer did meet an untimely (and unexpected) end but it was in a lonely little spot about 10 or 12 miles south of Lynchburg, Virginia and nowhere near his happy hunting grounds in Georgia. However, if he just plays tricks at Jekyll Island, maybe that tells us a little about his personality.

Hey, I dunno either about most of the specifics of the man, other than he was very capable financially-knowledge wise, and was tutored by the Morgan group, and that ought to tell us a little something.

I do know he is a permanent resident in a prominent cemetery in Washington, DC, I know that.

Bob Cohen