Topics

locked Southern Crescent Consists


Bill Schafer
 

Because there has been some recent interest in actual consists of the Southern Crescent in its glory days (1972-1979), I have consulted some of my old pocket notebooks and transcribed the consists of all the trains I rode in 1976. Turns out I made at least 30 trips on trains 1-2 that year, mostly on business. Attached is one of those consists. If there is sufficient interest, I will post more. 

On March 12-13, my wife and I rode train 2 from Atlanta to Alexandria, probably to visit my family over the weekend near Baltimore. We often boarded and detrained at Alexandria because it was near I-495, and if we could persuade someone to pick us up when #2 arrived, we would be at the family homestead before Amtrak 172, the connection to New York, left Washington. The logic was similar for catching #2 for the return to Atlanta. The consist would always be sizable leaving Atlanta on a Friday night because the northbound train was running through from New Orleans. Our return consist on Sunday night was often smaller because the train terminated in Atlanta. 

I know the attachment is hard to read. It is a PDF, so to make it more legible, click on it, open it, and enlarge it. 

—Bill Schafer




Jason Greene
 

Were the heavyweight coaches dead head or active? How common would they be on the Crescent?

Jason Greene 

On Jul 5, 2020, at 5:17 PM, Bill Schafer <bill4501@...> wrote:

Because there has been some recent interest in actual consists of the Southern Crescent in its glory days (1972-1979), I have consulted some of my old pocket notebooks and transcribed the consists of all the trains I rode in 1976. Turns out I made at least 30 trips on trains 1-2 that year, mostly on business. Attached is one of those consists. If there is sufficient interest, I will post more. 

On March 12-13, my wife and I rode train 2 from Atlanta to Alexandria, probably to visit my family over the weekend near Baltimore. We often boarded and detrained at Alexandria because it was near I-495, and if we could persuade someone to pick us up when #2 arrived, we would be at the family homestead before Amtrak 172, the connection to New York, left Washington. The logic was similar for catching #2 for the return to Atlanta. The consist would always be sizable leaving Atlanta on a Friday night because the northbound train was running through from New Orleans. Our return consist on Sunday night was often smaller because the train terminated in Atlanta. 

I know the attachment is hard to read. It is a PDF, so to make it more legible, click on it, open it, and enlarge it. 

—Bill Schafer



<1976 - Mar. 12-13 SOU 2 Atlanta-Alexandria.pdf>


Mark Demaline
 

Looked thru a few of my slides to locate one showing most or all of the consist, and here is one of  #1, at Duluth GA, on April 1, 1978.
There are 9 Southern cars, with what looks like at least 2 Amtrak cars on the rear.

I had also photographed #1 here two days before, on March 30th, and that train had a total of 9 cars, all of them Southern, no Amtrak.

And on one of my trips to the D.C area in -- I believe -- also 1978, there was a transit strike, and at Alexandria, a good number of people
boarded #2 there, for the trip into D.C.  One of the classiest "commuter" trains there was, to ride into work that day!

 ~ Mark D


-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Schafer <bill4501@...>


Because there has been some recent interest in actual consists of the Southern Crescent in its glory days (1972-1979), I have consulted some of my old pocket notebooks and transcribed the consists of all the trains I rode in 1976. Turns out I made at least 30 trips on trains 1-2 that year, mostly on business. Attached is one of those consists. If there is sufficient interest, I will post more. 

On March 12-13, my wife and I rode train 2 from Atlanta to Alexandria, probably to visit my family over the weekend near Baltimore. We often boarded and detrained at Alexandria because it was near I-495, and if we could persuade someone to pick us up when #2 arrived, we would be at the family homestead before Amtrak 172, the connection to New York, left Washington. The logic was similar for catching #2 for the return to Atlanta. The consist would always be sizable leaving Atlanta on a Friday night because the northbound train was running through from New Orleans. Our return consist on Sunday night was often smaller because the train terminated in Atlanta. 

I know the attachment is hard to read. It is a PDF, so to make it more legible, click on it, open it, and enlarge it. 

—Bill Schafer



_._,_._,_



Bill Schafer
 

Jason:

Heavyweight cars on the Southern Crescent were not common but not unknown. More common were the ex-CofG lightweights off the Nancy Hanks, City of Miami, and/or Man O’War. You’d likely see the heavyweights in service during heavy travel periods - Thanksgiving, Christmas for example. Attached are images of 2nd 1 passing through Norcross, Ga., on Thanksgiving Day, 1976. On this day, the first section was the short section and ran on time, protecting the schedule; the connecting cars from New York must have been late arriving Washington, so the New Orleans train ran as the second section. On the rear is a modernized heavyweight, which I assumed was in regular service. 

As for the two heavyweights on the rear in my March consist, there are three possible explanations - they are in regular service, they are deadheading to Hayne, they are on there for a special party. I didn’t make a note at the time, so really don’t know the answer. For modelers, I guess the message is that it’s perfectly okay to have a modernized heavyweight coach in the consist of the Southern Crescent. It most likely would be found on the front or the rear of the consist and you can make up whatever reason you want for its presence. 

—Bill







On Jul 5, 2020, at 19:24, Jason Greene <jason.p.greene@...> wrote:

Were the heavyweight coaches dead head or active? How common would they be on the Crescent?

Jason Greene 

On Jul 5, 2020, at 5:17 PM, Bill Schafer <bill4501@...> wrote:

Because there has been some recent interest in actual consists of the Southern Crescent in its glory days (1972-1979), I have consulted some of my old pocket notebooks and transcribed the consists of all the trains I rode in 1976. Turns out I made at least 30 trips on trains 1-2 that year, mostly on business. Attached is one of those consists. If there is sufficient interest, I will post more. 

On March 12-13, my wife and I rode train 2 from Atlanta to Alexandria, probably to visit my family over the weekend near Baltimore. We often boarded and detrained at Alexandria because it was near I-495, and if we could persuade someone to pick us up when #2 arrived, we would be at the family homestead before Amtrak 172, the connection to New York, left Washington. The logic was similar for catching #2 for the return to Atlanta. The consist would always be sizable leaving Atlanta on a Friday night because the northbound train was running through from New Orleans. Our return consist on Sunday night was often smaller because the train terminated in Atlanta. 

I know the attachment is hard to read. It is a PDF, so to make it more legible, click on it, open it, and enlarge it. 

—Bill Schafer



<1976 - Mar. 12-13 SOU 2 Atlanta-Alexandria.pdf>


Jason Greene
 

Thanks Bill for sharing you consists, pictures, and knowledge. 

Jason Greene 

On Jul 6, 2020, at 8:35 AM, Bill Schafer <bill4501@...> wrote:

Jason:

Heavyweight cars on the Southern Crescent were not common but not unknown. More common were the ex-CofG lightweights off the Nancy Hanks, City of Miami, and/or Man O’War. You’d likely see the heavyweights in service during heavy travel periods - Thanksgiving, Christmas for example. Attached are images of 2nd 1 passing through Norcross, Ga., on Thanksgiving Day, 1976. On this day, the first section was the short section and ran on time, protecting the schedule; the connecting cars from New York must have been late arriving Washington, so the New Orleans train ran as the second section. On the rear is a modernized heavyweight, which I assumed was in regular service. 

As for the two heavyweights on the rear in my March consist, there are three possible explanations - they are in regular service, they are deadheading to Hayne, they are on there for a special party. I didn’t make a note at the time, so really don’t know the answer. For modelers, I guess the message is that it’s perfectly okay to have a modernized heavyweight coach in the consist of the Southern Crescent. It most likely would be found on the front or the rear of the consist and you can make up whatever reason you want for its presence. 

—Bill

<SOU 6903 on train 2nd 1 at Norcross Ga Nov 1976 GWS photo.tiff>
<SOU train 2nd 1 at Norcross Ga. 6902 rear unit - Thanksgiving Day, Nov 25, 1976 GWS photo.tiff>
<SOU 2nd No. 1 at Norcross Ga. Thanksgiving Day Nov 1976 GWS photo.tiff>






On Jul 5, 2020, at 19:24, Jason Greene <jason.p.greene@...> wrote:

Were the heavyweight coaches dead head or active? How common would they be on the Crescent?

Jason Greene 

On Jul 5, 2020, at 5:17 PM, Bill Schafer <bill4501@...> wrote:

Because there has been some recent interest in actual consists of the Southern Crescent in its glory days (1972-1979), I have consulted some of my old pocket notebooks and transcribed the consists of all the trains I rode in 1976. Turns out I made at least 30 trips on trains 1-2 that year, mostly on business. Attached is one of those consists. If there is sufficient interest, I will post more. 

On March 12-13, my wife and I rode train 2 from Atlanta to Alexandria, probably to visit my family over the weekend near Baltimore. We often boarded and detrained at Alexandria because it was near I-495, and if we could persuade someone to pick us up when #2 arrived, we would be at the family homestead before Amtrak 172, the connection to New York, left Washington. The logic was similar for catching #2 for the return to Atlanta. The consist would always be sizable leaving Atlanta on a Friday night because the northbound train was running through from New Orleans. Our return consist on Sunday night was often smaller because the train terminated in Atlanta. 

I know the attachment is hard to read. It is a PDF, so to make it more legible, click on it, open it, and enlarge it. 

—Bill Schafer



<1976 - Mar. 12-13 SOU 2 Atlanta-Alexandria.pdf>


Jim Younger
 

Hi guys

I hate to ask a SRR 101 question but what does the red/white sign on the Es say?  

I know it has something to do with southern signer(s) of the Declaration of Independence. Was there one or several?

Regards 

Jim Younger


On Jul 6, 2020, at 9:28 AM, Jason Greene <jason.p.greene@...> wrote:

Thanks Bill for sharing you consists, pictures, and knowledge. 

Jason Greene 

On Jul 6, 2020, at 8:35 AM, Bill Schafer <bill4501@...> wrote:

Jason:

Heavyweight cars on the Southern Crescent were not common but not unknown. More common were the ex-CofG lightweights off the Nancy Hanks, City of Miami, and/or Man O’War. You’d likely see the heavyweights in service during heavy travel periods - Thanksgiving, Christmas for example. Attached are images of 2nd 1 passing through Norcross, Ga., on Thanksgiving Day, 1976. On this day, the first section was the short section and ran on time, protecting the schedule; the connecting cars from New York must have been late arriving Washington, so the New Orleans train ran as the second section. On the rear is a modernized heavyweight, which I assumed was in regular service. 

As for the two heavyweights on the rear in my March consist, there are three possible explanations - they are in regular service, they are deadheading to Hayne, they are on there for a special party. I didn’t make a note at the time, so really don’t know the answer. For modelers, I guess the message is that it’s perfectly okay to have a modernized heavyweight coach in the consist of the Southern Crescent. It most likely would be found on the front or the rear of the consist and you can make up whatever reason you want for its presence. 

—Bill

<SOU 6903 on train 2nd 1 at Norcross Ga Nov 1976 GWS photo.tiff>
<SOU train 2nd 1 at Norcross Ga. 6902 rear unit - Thanksgiving Day, Nov 25, 1976 GWS photo.tiff>
<SOU 2nd No. 1 at Norcross Ga. Thanksgiving Day Nov 1976 GWS photo.tiff>






On Jul 5, 2020, at 19:24, Jason Greene <jason.p.greene@...> wrote:

Were the heavyweight coaches dead head or active? How common would they be on the Crescent?

Jason Greene 

On Jul 5, 2020, at 5:17 PM, Bill Schafer <bill4501@...> wrote:

Because there has been some recent interest in actual consists of the Southern Crescent in its glory days (1972-1979), I have consulted some of my old pocket notebooks and transcribed the consists of all the trains I rode in 1976. Turns out I made at least 30 trips on trains 1-2 that year, mostly on business. Attached is one of those consists. If there is sufficient interest, I will post more. 

On March 12-13, my wife and I rode train 2 from Atlanta to Alexandria, probably to visit my family over the weekend near Baltimore. We often boarded and detrained at Alexandria because it was near I-495, and if we could persuade someone to pick us up when #2 arrived, we would be at the family homestead before Amtrak 172, the connection to New York, left Washington. The logic was similar for catching #2 for the return to Atlanta. The consist would always be sizable leaving Atlanta on a Friday night because the northbound train was running through from New Orleans. Our return consist on Sunday night was often smaller because the train terminated in Atlanta. 

I know the attachment is hard to read. It is a PDF, so to make it more legible, click on it, open it, and enlarge it. 

—Bill Schafer



<1976 - Mar. 12-13 SOU 2 Atlanta-Alexandria.pdf>


Bill Schafer
 

Jim:

The red and white “signs” were vinyl decals. Back in 1975 Graham Claytor, Southern’s president, realized that there were 17 signers of the Declaration of Independence from the states that were served by Southern Railway. Coincidentally, Southern stabled 17 E8s that powered the Southern Crescent. Rather than dandify any Southern locomotive with a red-white-blue paint scheme, like other railroads were doing, Mr. Claytor decided that SOU would celebrate the bicentennial by placing a sign on each side of each E8. There would be 17 different signs, one for each signer.

Attached is a list of the 17 signers and a Warren Calloway photo of SOU 6910 in Atlanta, which bore the sign of Carter Braxton, one of the seven signers from Virginia. I don’t have a list handy of which signers’ stickers were applied to which E8; maybe another member of this list can post that information.

Hope this helps.

—Bill Schafer




On Jul 6, 2020, at 10:58, Jim Younger via groups.io <frisco2011@...> wrote:

Hi guys

I hate to ask a SRR 101 question but what does the red/white sign on the Es say?  

I know it has something to do with southern signer(s) of the Declaration of Independence. Was there one or several?

Regards 

Jim Younger


On Jul 6, 2020, at 9:28 AM, Jason Greene <jason.p.greene@...> wrote:

Thanks Bill for sharing you consists, pictures, and knowledge. 

Jason Greene 

On Jul 6, 2020, at 8:35 AM, Bill Schafer <bill4501@...> wrote:

Jason:

Heavyweight cars on the Southern Crescent were not common but not unknown. More common were the ex-CofG lightweights off the Nancy Hanks, City of Miami, and/or Man O’War. You’d likely see the heavyweights in service during heavy travel periods - Thanksgiving, Christmas for example. Attached are images of 2nd 1 passing through Norcross, Ga., on Thanksgiving Day, 1976. On this day, the first section was the short section and ran on time, protecting the schedule; the connecting cars from New York must have been late arriving Washington, so the New Orleans train ran as the second section. On the rear is a modernized heavyweight, which I assumed was in regular service. 

As for the two heavyweights on the rear in my March consist, there are three possible explanations - they are in regular service, they are deadheading to Hayne, they are on there for a special party. I didn’t make a note at the time, so really don’t know the answer. For modelers, I guess the message is that it’s perfectly okay to have a modernized heavyweight coach in the consist of the Southern Crescent. It most likely would be found on the front or the rear of the consist and you can make up whatever reason you want for its presence. 

—Bill

<SOU 6903 on train 2nd 1 at Norcross Ga Nov 1976 GWS photo.tiff>
<SOU train 2nd 1 at Norcross Ga. 6902 rear unit - Thanksgiving Day, Nov 25, 1976 GWS photo.tiff>
<SOU 2nd No. 1 at Norcross Ga. Thanksgiving Day Nov 1976 GWS photo.tiff>






On Jul 5, 2020, at 19:24, Jason Greene <jason.p.greene@...> wrote:

Were the heavyweight coaches dead head or active? How common would they be on the Crescent?

Jason Greene 

On Jul 5, 2020, at 5:17 PM, Bill Schafer <bill4501@...> wrote:

Because there has been some recent interest in actual consists of the Southern Crescent in its glory days (1972-1979), I have consulted some of my old pocket notebooks and transcribed the consists of all the trains I rode in 1976. Turns out I made at least 30 trips on trains 1-2 that year, mostly on business. Attached is one of those consists. If there is sufficient interest, I will post more. 

On March 12-13, my wife and I rode train 2 from Atlanta to Alexandria, probably to visit my family over the weekend near Baltimore. We often boarded and detrained at Alexandria because it was near I-495, and if we could persuade someone to pick us up when #2 arrived, we would be at the family homestead before Amtrak 172, the connection to New York, left Washington. The logic was similar for catching #2 for the return to Atlanta. The consist would always be sizable leaving Atlanta on a Friday night because the northbound train was running through from New Orleans. Our return consist on Sunday night was often smaller because the train terminated in Atlanta. 

I know the attachment is hard to read. It is a PDF, so to make it more legible, click on it, open it, and enlarge it. 

—Bill Schafer



<1976 - Mar. 12-13 SOU 2 Atlanta-Alexandria.pdf>



Robert Graham
 

It was SOU's USA Declaration of Independence celebration. The SOU applied a decal for each Southern colony's signers of the Declaration of Independence. SOU had 17 E8A at that time, so worked out great. Each was different. Attached is a photo of one made from the flanks of SOU FP7 6141, which was also applied to E8 6911, both locomotives named for NC signer John Penn. The Bicentennial decals were removed after 1976. Unrelated to the E8 application, SOU also applied the names of the 2 North Carolina signers of the Declaration of Independence to the flanks of 2 FP7, 6133 & 6141 selected to be painted back into sylvan green in late 1975 for service on the "Skyland Special", a regularly scheduled seasonal excursion train run Asheville-Old Fort NC through the loops in the Blue Ridge Mountains for 2 years as a condition of discontinuance of the tri-weekly Asheville Special trains #3 & 4 required by the NC Utilities Commission. Unfortunately, the "Skyland" did not pan out at the time and was discontinued, but the green FP7's were a hit and 3 more were subsequently done for special, inspection and excursion service.

Bob Graham 

-----------------------------------------

From: "Jim Younger via groups.io"
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io
Cc:
Sent: Monday July 6 2020 1:07:57PM
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Southern Crescent Consists

Hi guys

I hate to ask a SRR 101 question but what does the red/white sign on the Es say?  

I know it has something to do with southern signer(s) of the Declaration of Independence. Was there one or several?

Regards 

Jim Younger


On Jul 6, 2020, at 9:28 AM, Jason Greene <jason.p.greene@...> wrote:

Thanks Bill for sharing you consists, pictures, and knowledge. 

Jason Greene 

On Jul 6, 2020, at 8:35 AM, Bill Schafer <bill4501@...> wrote:

Jason:

Heavyweight cars on the Southern Crescent were not common but not unknown. More common were the ex-CofG lightweights off the Nancy Hanks, City of Miami, and/or Man O’War. You’d likely see the heavyweights in service during heavy travel periods - Thanksgiving, Christmas for example. Attached are images of 2nd 1 passing through Norcross, Ga., on Thanksgiving Day, 1976. On this day, the first section was the short section and ran on time, protecting the schedule; the connecting cars from New York must have been late arriving Washington, so the New Orleans train ran as the second section. On the rear is a modernized heavyweight, which I assumed was in regular service. 

As for the two heavyweights on the rear in my March consist, there are three possible explanations - they are in regular service, they are deadheading to Hayne, they are on there for a special party. I didn’t make a note at the time, so really don’t know the answer. For modelers, I guess the message is that it’s perfectly okay to have a modernized heavyweight coach in the consist of the Southern Crescent. It most likely would be found on the front or the rear of the consist and you can make up whatever reason you want for its presence. 

—Bill

<SOU 6903 on train 2nd 1 at Norcross Ga Nov 1976 GWS photo.tiff>
<SOU train 2nd 1 at Norcross Ga. 6902 rear unit - Thanksgiving Day, Nov 25, 1976 GWS photo.tiff>
<SOU 2nd No. 1 at Norcross Ga. Thanksgiving Day Nov 1976 GWS photo.tiff>






On Jul 5, 2020, at 19:24, Jason Greene <jason.p.greene@...> wrote:

Were the heavyweight coaches dead head or active? How common would they be on the Crescent?

Jason Greene 

On Jul 5, 2020, at 5:17 PM, Bill Schafer <bill4501@...> wrote:

Because there has been some recent interest in actual consists of the Southern Crescent in its glory days (1972-1979), I have consulted some of my old pocket notebooks and transcribed the consists of all the trains I rode in 1976. Turns out I made at least 30 trips on trains 1-2 that year, mostly on business. Attached is one of those consists. If there is sufficient interest, I will post more. 

On March 12-13, my wife and I rode train 2 from Atlanta to Alexandria, probably to visit my family over the weekend near Baltimore. We often boarded and detrained at Alexandria because it was near I-495, and if we could persuade someone to pick us up when #2 arrived, we would be at the family homestead before Amtrak 172, the connection to New York, left Washington. The logic was similar for catching #2 for the return to Atlanta. The consist would always be sizable leaving Atlanta on a Friday night because the northbound train was running through from New Orleans. Our return consist on Sunday night was often smaller because the train terminated in Atlanta. 

I know the attachment is hard to read. It is a PDF, so to make it more legible, click on it, open it, and enlarge it. 

—Bill Schafer



<1976 - Mar. 12-13 SOU 2 Atlanta-Alexandria.pdf>


Byron Osborn
 

Thanks to all who have asked questions and provided answers for this topic.  This has been a great help to me.


Jim Younger
 

Hello

Can anyone advise if there are any books on the Crescent after Amtrak started but BEFORE Amtrak took it over?

Jim Younger


On Jul 6, 2020, at 8:34 PM, Byron Osborn <bosborn10@...> wrote:

Thanks to all who have asked questions and provided answers for this topic.  This has been a great help to me.