Topics

locked Southern K&IT Bridge


Michael Shirey
 

Looking for some help finding photos and or information on the Southern railway by-pass loop off of the north end of the K&IT bridge in New Albany, Indiana. Southern had trackage rights on the B&O to loop around and under the north end of the bridge then westward on the east and west district line.





Thanks, Michael Shirey 






George Eichelberger
 

Michael:

Southern Railway contracts 183 (New Albany Belt & Terminal 11-11-1890), contract 184 (New Albany Belt 7-24-1895), contract 442 (Joint Use of Tracks at New Albany, IN 5-28-1908), contract 652 (Joint Use of Passenger Station at New Albany, IN 1-2-1917), contract 653 (Pitts-Cincy & StL tracks at New Albany, IN 1-2-1917) and contract 931 (Southern-PRR crossing at New Albany, IN) all cover agreements at the north end of the K&IT bridge but I do not see a reference, or drawing of a “loop track” except on the street railway. The attached drawing from contract 442 shows the K&IT tracks off the bridge but only a far toward the river as Main St. I’ve been across the bridge and to where the tracks split but do not remember a track under the bridge.

Maybe someone can look at the drawing and help?

Ike



On Apr 14, 2020, at 7:50 PM, Michael Shirey <pcrrhs6561@...> wrote:

Looking for some help finding photos and or information on the Southern railway by-pass loop off of the north end of the K&IT bridge in New Albany, Indiana. Southern had trackage rights on the B&O to loop around and under the north end of the bridge then westward on the east and west district line.





Thanks, Michael Shirey 







Stuart Thayer
 

Ike,

For those of us that were born and raised in Louisville, KY or just across the Ohio River in Indiana the "Southern Loop" is well known.  Your map shows the Southern Loop (yellow line) splitting off the B&O about a 1/2 a block past the point where the B&O splits off the K&IT trackage coming off the K&IT bridge over the Ohio River.  The Southern track which was the original mainline then loops around to cross under the K&IT tracks.  This arrangement was replaced when the Southern redid their alignment in the 1970's and split off the K&IT right at the end of the bridge bypassing the Loop and the street running.

The attached photo shows train #120 crossing under itself as it heads WB off the K&IT bridge.  The new alignment wiped out this trackage with the fill for the new alignment running through this scene right about where the photographer is standing.  If you visit New Albany today you can still find the loop right-of-way in places if you know where to look and the overpass in the photo is still there.  Although it is obscured by trees now.

Stuart Thayer

In a message dated 4/14/2020 10:43:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, geichelberger@... writes:

Michael:

Southern Railway contracts 183 (New Albany Belt & Terminal 11-11-1890), contract 184 (New Albany Belt 7-24-1895), contract 442 (Joint Use of Tracks at New Albany, IN 5-28-1908), contract 652 (Joint Use of Passenger Station at New Albany, IN 1-2-1917), contract 653 (Pitts-Cincy & StL tracks at New Albany, IN 1-2-1917) and contract 931 (Southern-PRR crossing at New Albany, IN) all cover agreements at the north end of the K&IT bridge but I do not see a reference, or drawing of a “loop track” except on the street railway. The attached drawing from contract 442 shows the K&IT tracks off the bridge but only a far toward the river as Main St. I’ve been across the bridge and to where the tracks split but do not remember a track under the bridge.

Maybe someone can look at the drawing and help?

Ike



On Apr 14, 2020, at 7:50 PM, Michael Shirey <pcrrhs6561@...> wrote:

Looking for some help finding photos and or information on the Southern railway by-pass loop off of the north end of the K&IT bridge in New Albany, Indiana. Southern had trackage rights on the B&O to loop around and under the north end of the bridge then westward on the east and west district line.





Thanks, Michael Shirey






Michael Shirey
 

 Stuart Thayer thanks you for your very in-depth information on this topic. You my friend have hit the jackpot and helps me understand this more.  If anyone is interested I have a Facebook group for this topic and my layout build..https://www.facebook.com/groups/2278439425795609/





Thanks, Michael Shirey 







On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 5:37 PM Stuart Thayer via groups.io <StuThayer=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Ike,

For those of us that were born and raised in Louisville, KY or just across the Ohio River in Indiana the "Southern Loop" is well known.  Your map shows the Southern Loop (yellow line) splitting off the B&O about a 1/2 a block past the point where the B&O splits off the K&IT trackage coming off the K&IT bridge over the Ohio River.  The Southern track which was the original mainline then loops around to cross under the K&IT tracks.  This arrangement was replaced when the Southern redid their alignment in the 1970's and split off the K&IT right at the end of the bridge bypassing the Loop and the street running.

The attached photo shows train #120 crossing under itself as it heads WB off the K&IT bridge.  The new alignment wiped out this trackage with the fill for the new alignment running through this scene right about where the photographer is standing.  If you visit New Albany today you can still find the loop right-of-way in places if you know where to look and the overpass in the photo is still there.  Although it is obscured by trees now.

Stuart Thayer

In a message dated 4/14/2020 10:43:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, geichelberger@... writes:

Michael:

Southern Railway contracts 183 (New Albany Belt & Terminal 11-11-1890), contract 184 (New Albany Belt 7-24-1895), contract 442 (Joint Use of Tracks at New Albany, IN 5-28-1908), contract 652 (Joint Use of Passenger Station at New Albany, IN 1-2-1917), contract 653 (Pitts-Cincy & StL tracks at New Albany, IN 1-2-1917) and contract 931 (Southern-PRR crossing at New Albany, IN) all cover agreements at the north end of the K&IT bridge but I do not see a reference, or drawing of a “loop track” except on the street railway. The attached drawing from contract 442 shows the K&IT tracks off the bridge but only a far toward the river as Main St. I’ve been across the bridge and to where the tracks split but do not remember a track under the bridge.

Maybe someone can look at the drawing and help?

Ike



On Apr 14, 2020, at 7:50 PM, Michael Shirey <pcrrhs6561@...> wrote:

Looking for some help finding photos and or information on the Southern railway by-pass loop off of the north end of the K&IT bridge in New Albany, Indiana. Southern had trackage rights on the B&O to loop around and under the north end of the bridge then westward on the east and west district line.





Thanks, Michael Shirey






Stephen Warner
 

Ike and all,

The K&I Bridge did indeed leave Youngtown with a loop turning right/east and then under the bridge to run west toward Duncan Tunnel and Huntingburg.   In 1969 I patrolled that trackage between Huntingburg and the K&I Bridge on Fairmont M-19 Motor Cars.  As I lived until Feb. '70 in New Albany, I could hear the Monon running behind my apt. house on Bono Rd. north of the bridge morning and night.  The B&OSW also came onto/off of the bridge from the NE, then passing our Youngtown Yard and Floyd St.  As your JF Files showed, we had a separate JF there, and had the (then) Operator count cars to share the maintenance.  When I was there, besides DI Tower at the north end of Youngtown, there was KI Tower on the bridge (N. end?) with the original Operator handling the Interlocking.  I believe that he was K&IT.  I spent a few evenings there - he had a hobby to "collect" the Radio Car Numbers of the slave trains as they went by.   Sometime after I left, SR built a LH turnout somewhere on the N. end of the bridge and a ramp west down to the Main going toward Duncan Tunnel.  The PCC&SL/PRR never crossed the bridge as far as I knew, and was not a petty to the Five Line Agreement; we got to them (now LNA&) via the Panama Track on the Levee, but connected with the Monon north on Vincennes St. .  The Five Line Agreement was my specialty later in JF, and I spent much time there and dealing with the remnants of the Monon/Soo/CP/CSX as we shut down the agreement.  At one time CP/Soo ( ICC-granted TR on Monon that they refused to give up after CSX abandoned their Monon operation) had one train in and out, and we handled the switching, Interchange, and Loco servicing in Youngtown.   Before I retired, I walked the remains of the Loop Track - not much left then, just a short weedy lead to what used to be an industry just to the east with a troublesome turnout on a sharp main line curve.  But the most interesting thing was the roadway for vehicles that ran along beside the K&I Bridge Tracks. It was shut down decades ago, but I recall that it was barricaded off to traffic the last time I saw it. One day in the '90's I was with the Term. Supt. and we got a call to go with the Special Agents to the old K&IT HQ.  It was a beautiful Victorian mansion in a residential area, that someone had called in a trespasser.  It was like an office bldg that everyone had  just gone home expecting to come back the next day.  Strange and haunting.  One of my memories that stay with me.


Stuart Thayer
 

Michael,

Glad to help.  The Southern in and around Louisville, KY is near and dear to my heart.

Stuart Thayer

In a message dated 4/15/2020 5:51:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, pcrrhs6561@... writes:

 Stuart Thayer thanks you for your very in-depth information on this topic. You my friend have hit the jackpot and helps me understand this more.  If anyone is interested I have a Facebook group for this topic and my layout build..https://www.facebook.com/groups/2278439425795609/





Thanks, Michael Shirey






On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 5:37 PM Stuart Thayer via groups.io <StuThayer=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Ike,

For those of us that were born and raised in Louisville, KY or just across the Ohio River in Indiana the "Southern Loop" is well known.  Your map shows the Southern Loop (yellow line) splitting off the B&O about a 1/2 a block past the point where the B&O splits off the K&IT trackage coming off the K&IT bridge over the Ohio River.  The Southern track which was the original mainline then loops around to cross under the K&IT tracks.  This arrangement was replaced when the Southern redid their alignment in the 1970's and split off the K&IT right at the end of the bridge bypassing the Loop and the street running.

The attached photo shows train #120 crossing under itself as it heads WB off the K&IT bridge.  The new alignment wiped out this trackage with the fill for the new alignment running through this scene right about where the photographer is standing.  If you visit New Albany today you can still find the loop right-of-way in places if you know where to look and the overpass in the photo is still there.  Although it is obscured by trees now.

Stuart Thayer

In a message dated 4/14/2020 10:43:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, geichelberger@... writes:

Michael:

Southern Railway contracts 183 (New Albany Belt & Terminal 11-11-1890), contract 184 (New Albany Belt 7-24-1895), contract 442 (Joint Use of Tracks at New Albany, IN 5-28-1908), contract 652 (Joint Use of Passenger Station at New Albany, IN 1-2-1917), contract 653 (Pitts-Cincy & StL tracks at New Albany, IN 1-2-1917) and contract 931 (Southern-PRR crossing at New Albany, IN) all cover agreements at the north end of the K&IT bridge but I do not see a reference, or drawing of a “loop track” except on the street railway. The attached drawing from contract 442 shows the K&IT tracks off the bridge but only a far toward the river as Main St. I’ve been across the bridge and to where the tracks split but do not remember a track under the bridge.

Maybe someone can look at the drawing and help?

Ike



On Apr 14, 2020, at 7:50 PM, Michael Shirey <pcrrhs6561@...> wrote:

Looking for some help finding photos and or information on the Southern railway by-pass loop off of the north end of the K&IT bridge in New Albany, Indiana. Southern had trackage rights on the B&O to loop around and under the north end of the bridge then westward on the east and west district line.





Thanks, Michael Shirey






 



George Eichelberger
 

Stuart:

Thanks! One of my NS projects was to put a fiber optic cable across the bridge so I was all over the K&IT ROW in ’12 and ’13. I could not have missed a track passing underneath. Of course, we worked with local NS folks that would have known about the loop but the subject never came up.

For the first time in many years, I drove over the bridge on the old NB highway lane (following an NS special agent). I don’t know when the bridge was closed to auto traffic but I remember crossing it (cost $.15?) years ago. The locals wanted to open a bike path/walking trail across the bridge but I don’t expect that happened?

Ike


On Apr 15, 2020, at 5:37 PM, Stuart Thayer via groups.io <StuThayer@...> wrote:

Ike,

For those of us that were born and raised in Louisville, KY or just across the Ohio River in Indiana the "Southern Loop" is well known.  Your map shows the Southern Loop (yellow line) splitting off the B&O about a 1/2 a block past the point where the B&O splits off the K&IT trackage coming off the K&IT bridge over the Ohio River.  The Southern track which was the original mainline then loops around to cross under the K&IT tracks.  This arrangement was replaced when the Southern redid their alignment in the 1970's and split off the K&IT right at the end of the bridge bypassing the Loop and the street running.

The attached photo shows train #120 crossing under itself as it heads WB off the K&IT bridge.  The new alignment wiped out this trackage with the fill for the new alignment running through this scene right about where the photographer is standing.  If you visit New Albany today you can still find the loop right-of-way in places if you know where to look and the overpass in the photo is still there.  Although it is obscured by trees now.

Stuart Thayer

In a message dated 4/14/2020 10:43:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, geichelberger@... writes:

Michael:

Southern Railway contracts 183 (New Albany Belt & Terminal 11-11-1890), contract 184 (New Albany Belt 7-24-1895), contract 442 (Joint Use of Tracks at New Albany, IN 5-28-1908), contract 652 (Joint Use of Passenger Station at New Albany, IN 1-2-1917), contract 653 (Pitts-Cincy & StL tracks at New Albany, IN 1-2-1917) and contract 931 (Southern-PRR crossing at New Albany, IN) all cover agreements at the north end of the K&IT bridge but I do not see a reference, or drawing of a “loop track” except on the street railway. The attached drawing from contract 442 shows the K&IT tracks off the bridge but only a far toward the river as Main St. I’ve been across the bridge and to where the tracks split but do not remember a track under the bridge.

Maybe someone can look at the drawing and help?

Ike

<442 New Albany, IN.jpeg>

On Apr 14, 2020, at 7:50 PM, Michael Shirey <pcrrhs6561@...> wrote:

Looking for some help finding photos and or information on the Southern railway by-pass loop off of the north end of the K&IT bridge in New Albany, Indiana. Southern had trackage rights on the B&O to loop around and under the north end of the bridge then westward on the east and west district line.





Thanks, Michael Shirey





<SOU 3137_Tr 120_New Albany  IN_5-73_coll SThayer.jpg><442 New Albany, IN.jpeg>