Topics

moderated Southern Mine Directories?

Evan Miller
 

Did Southern ever publish coal mine directories? I’ve seen several published by the Virginian Railway. They list the various coal loadouts that the railroad served along with the monthly amount of cars shipped per loadout. I was wondering if Southern published something like this and if any are in the archives?

-Evan Miller

George Eichelberger
 

Evan:

I am not aware of a comprehensive coal mine directory but mines are mentioned in various documents.

The most extensive are in files about the coal pier at Charleston. Mines on the Interstate and Southern in SW VA, and how much traffic moved on the L&N are described there.

Contracts 166, 212, 244, 353, 363, 369, 379, 435, 437, 547 and the “Southern News Bulletin” (SNB) reference many mines in Alabama and Tennessee. (A list of contracts was published some time ago and I will check to see if the GRAB has DVDs with the SNBs scans in stock tomorrow. They are an excellent source of information on the Southern.)

The following photo (1 of about 30) shows the Charleston coal pier under construction July 11, 1915. In addition to loading colliers, I was surprised to find ships came to the pier just for bunker coal, a good side business for the Southern.

All of these topics would make for an interesting TIES article if someone is interested in doing the research.

Ike




On Feb 13, 2020, at 5:55 PM, Evan Miller via Groups.Io <nsrailfan82@...> wrote:

Did Southern ever publish coal mine directories? I’ve seen several published by the Virginian Railway. They list the various coal loadouts that the railroad served along with the monthly amount of cars shipped per loadout. I was wondering if Southern published something like this and if any are in the archives?

-Evan Miller

C J Wyatt
 

I have one somewhere if I can find it. I am thinking late forties, staple bound, about 20 pages. Unfortunately someone took a pair of scissors to some of the sections.

Jack Wyatt

On Thursday, February 13, 2020, 08:11:24 PM EST, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:


Evan:

I am not aware of a comprehensive coal mine directory but mines are mentioned in various documents.

The most extensive are in files about the coal pier at Charleston. Mines on the Interstate and Southern in SW VA, and how much traffic moved on the L&N are described there.

Contracts 166, 212, 244, 353, 363, 369, 379, 435, 437, 547 and the “Southern News Bulletin” (SNB) reference many mines in Alabama and Tennessee. (A list of contracts was published some time ago and I will check to see if the GRAB has DVDs with the SNBs scans in stock tomorrow. They are an excellent source of information on the Southern.)

The following photo (1 of about 30) shows the Charleston coal pier under construction July 11, 1915. In addition to loading colliers, I was surprised to find ships came to the pier just for bunker coal, a good side business for the Southern.

All of these topics would make for an interesting TIES article if someone is interested in doing the research.

Ike




On Feb 13, 2020, at 5:55 PM, Evan Miller via Groups.Io <nsrailfan82@...> wrote:

Did Southern ever publish coal mine directories? I’ve seen several published by the Virginian Railway. They list the various coal loadouts that the railroad served along with the monthly amount of cars shipped per loadout. I was wondering if Southern published something like this and if any are in the archives?

-Evan Miller

C J Wyatt
 

I got lucky. The guess of twenty pages (including covers) was good, but date of issue was March 1, 1952. I have been relieved of pages 17-18. I have attached scan of cover and map of Alabama District

Jack Wyatt



On Thursday, February 13, 2020, 08:42:31 PM EST, C J Wyatt <cjwyatt@...> wrote:


I have one somewhere if I can find it. I am thinking late forties, staple bound, about 20 pages. Unfortunately someone took a pair of scissors to some of the sections.

Jack Wyatt

On Thursday, February 13, 2020, 08:11:24 PM EST, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:


Evan:

I am not aware of a comprehensive coal mine directory but mines are mentioned in various documents.

The most extensive are in files about the coal pier at Charleston. Mines on the Interstate and Southern in SW VA, and how much traffic moved on the L&N are described there.

Contracts 166, 212, 244, 353, 363, 369, 379, 435, 437, 547 and the “Southern News Bulletin” (SNB) reference many mines in Alabama and Tennessee. (A list of contracts was published some time ago and I will check to see if the GRAB has DVDs with the SNBs scans in stock tomorrow. They are an excellent source of information on the Southern.)

The following photo (1 of about 30) shows the Charleston coal pier under construction July 11, 1915. In addition to loading colliers, I was surprised to find ships came to the pier just for bunker coal, a good side business for the Southern.

All of these topics would make for an interesting TIES article if someone is interested in doing the research.

Ike




On Feb 13, 2020, at 5:55 PM, Evan Miller via Groups.Io <nsrailfan82@...> wrote:

Did Southern ever publish coal mine directories? I’ve seen several published by the Virginian Railway. They list the various coal loadouts that the railroad served along with the monthly amount of cars shipped per loadout. I was wondering if Southern published something like this and if any are in the archives?

-Evan Miller

Evan Miller
 

Thanks for sharing, that’s a great find! Does it have anything regarding the Middlesboro, KY area? Although it was L&N territory, Southern had trackage rights there. According to a L&N timetable, in 1953 Southern ran mine runs 201/202 on the Bennetts Fork Branch and 203/204 on the Stoney Fork Branch.

-Evan Miller

C J Wyatt
 

Evan, you're welcome!

Here are your Kentucky-Tennessee District (Knoxville Division) pages.

Jack Wyatt

On Thursday, February 13, 2020, 10:57:11 PM EST, Evan Miller via Groups.Io <nsrailfan82@...> wrote:


Thanks for sharing, that’s a great find! Does it have anything regarding the Middlesboro, KY area? Although it was L&N territory, Southern had trackage rights there. According to a L&N timetable, in 1953 Southern ran mine runs 201/202 on the Bennetts Fork Branch and 203/204 on the Stoney Fork Branch.

-Evan Miller

D. Scott Chatfield
 

I find it interesting that this ca1950s map shows six mines served but the 1984 map I've seen shows twelve on less track.  I wonder if the mergers gave the Southern access to more mines on L&N track or did they just open more loadouts?


Scott Chatfield

Allen Cain
 

Jack,

Fantastic info.  I know it is a pain but could you please post the full booklet?

Allen Cain

pschmidt3013@...
 

Yes, please! It would much appreciated.
--
Paul Schmidt
Sequim WA

Gino Damen
 

Hi,

We (US modelers in the Netherlands) are wondering where the coal from Alabama was transported to? Was it to Mobile or went everything to Lamberts Point?

Best regards,

Gino Damen
Fremo US Netherlands


On 14-2-2020 at 03:02, C J Wyatt <cjwyatt@...> wrote:
I got lucky. The guess of twenty pages (including covers) was good, but date of issue was March 1, 1952. I have been relieved of pages 17-18. I have attached scan of cover and map of Alabama District

Jack Wyatt



On Thursday, February 13, 2020, 08:42:31 PM EST, C J Wyatt <cjwyatt@...> wrote:


I have one somewhere if I can find it. I am thinking late forties, staple bound, about 20 pages. Unfortunately someone took a pair of scissors to some of the sections.

Jack Wyatt

On Thursday, February 13, 2020, 08:11:24 PM EST, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:


Evan:

I am not aware of a comprehensive coal mine directory but mines are mentioned in various documents.

The most extensive are in files about the coal pier at Charleston. Mines on the Interstate and Southern in SW VA, and how much traffic moved on the L&N are described there.

Contracts 166, 212, 244, 353, 363, 369, 379, 435, 437, 547 and the “Southern News Bulletin” (SNB) reference many mines in Alabama and Tennessee. (A list of contracts was published some time ago and I will check to see if the GRAB has DVDs with the SNBs scans in stock tomorrow. They are an excellent source of information on the Southern.)

The following photo (1 of about 30) shows the Charleston coal pier under construction July 11, 1915. In addition to loading colliers, I was surprised to find ships came to the pier just for bunker coal, a good side business for the Southern.

All of these topics would make for an interesting TIES article if someone is interested in doing the research.

Ike




On Feb 13, 2020, at 5:55 PM, Evan Miller via Groups.Io <nsrailfan82@...> wrote:

Did Southern ever publish coal mine directories? I’ve seen several published by the Virginian Railway. They list the various coal loadouts that the railroad served along with the monthly amount of cars shipped per loadout. I was wondering if Southern published something like this and if any are in the archives?

-Evan Miller


C J Wyatt
 

A lot would have been used for steel making around Birmingham, Alabama and other facilities in the region. Mobile AL would have been the main port for coal moving on by water. Lamberts Point would have been unlikely because of the distance and it being an interline move which would share revenues with a then unaffiliated railroad. I do not know if any Alabama coal made it to Southern's pier at Charleston SC.

Jack Wyatt


On Saturday, February 15, 2020, 03:57:29 PM EST, Gino Damen <g.damen@...> wrote:


Hi,

We (US modelers in the Netherlands) are wondering where the coal from Alabama was transported to? Was it to Mobile or went everything to Lamberts Point?

Best regards,

Gino Damen
Fremo US Netherlands

On 14-2-2020 at 03:02, C J Wyatt <cjwyatt@...> wrote:
I got lucky. The guess of twenty pages (including covers) was good, but date of issue was March 1, 1952. I have been relieved of pages 17-18. I have attached scan of cover and map of Alabama District

Jack Wyatt



On Thursday, February 13, 2020, 08:42:31 PM EST, C J Wyatt <cjwyatt@...> wrote:


I have one somewhere if I can find it. I am thinking late forties, staple bound, about 20 pages. Unfortunately someone took a pair of scissors to some of the sections.

Jack Wyatt

On Thursday, February 13, 2020, 08:11:24 PM EST, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:


Evan:

I am not aware of a comprehensive coal mine directory but mines are mentioned in various documents.

The most extensive are in files about the coal pier at Charleston. Mines on the Interstate and Southern in SW VA, and how much traffic moved on the L&N are described there.

Contracts 166, 212, 244, 353, 363, 369, 379, 435, 437, 547 and the “Southern News Bulletin” (SNB) reference many mines in Alabama and Tennessee. (A list of contracts was published some time ago and I will check to see if the GRAB has DVDs with the SNBs scans in stock tomorrow. They are an excellent source of information on the Southern.)

The following photo (1 of about 30) shows the Charleston coal pier under construction July 11, 1915. In addition to loading colliers, I was surprised to find ships came to the pier just for bunker coal, a good side business for the Southern.

All of these topics would make for an interesting TIES article if someone is interested in doing the research.

Ike




On Feb 13, 2020, at 5:55 PM, Evan Miller via Groups.Io <nsrailfan82@...> wrote:

Did Southern ever publish coal mine directories? I’ve seen several published by the Virginian Railway. They list the various coal loadouts that the railroad served along with the monthly amount of cars shipped per loadout. I was wondering if Southern published something like this and if any are in the archives?

-Evan Miller


C J Wyatt
 

I should add that up until the early fifties, the home heating market was still active, so individual carloads would have gone to local coal dealers in the region. Also more small foundries were operating which needed coal and coke. Institutional heating and industrial use could take multiple carload lots.

Jack Wyatt 

On Saturday, February 15, 2020, 03:57:29 PM EST, Gino Damen <g.damen@...> wrote:


Hi,

We (US modelers in the Netherlands) are wondering where the coal from Alabama was transported to? Was it to Mobile or went everything to Lamberts Point?

Best regards,

Gino Damen
Fremo US Netherlands

On 14-2-2020 at 03:02, C J Wyatt <cjwyatt@...> wrote:
I got lucky. The guess of twenty pages (including covers) was good, but date of issue was March 1, 1952. I have been relieved of pages 17-18. I have attached scan of cover and map of Alabama District

Jack Wyatt



On Thursday, February 13, 2020, 08:42:31 PM EST, C J Wyatt <cjwyatt@...> wrote:


I have one somewhere if I can find it. I am thinking late forties, staple bound, about 20 pages. Unfortunately someone took a pair of scissors to some of the sections.

Jack Wyatt

On Thursday, February 13, 2020, 08:11:24 PM EST, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:


Evan:

I am not aware of a comprehensive coal mine directory but mines are mentioned in various documents.

The most extensive are in files about the coal pier at Charleston. Mines on the Interstate and Southern in SW VA, and how much traffic moved on the L&N are described there.

Contracts 166, 212, 244, 353, 363, 369, 379, 435, 437, 547 and the “Southern News Bulletin” (SNB) reference many mines in Alabama and Tennessee. (A list of contracts was published some time ago and I will check to see if the GRAB has DVDs with the SNBs scans in stock tomorrow. They are an excellent source of information on the Southern.)

The following photo (1 of about 30) shows the Charleston coal pier under construction July 11, 1915. In addition to loading colliers, I was surprised to find ships came to the pier just for bunker coal, a good side business for the Southern.

All of these topics would make for an interesting TIES article if someone is interested in doing the research.

Ike




On Feb 13, 2020, at 5:55 PM, Evan Miller via Groups.Io <nsrailfan82@...> wrote:

Did Southern ever publish coal mine directories? I’ve seen several published by the Virginian Railway. They list the various coal loadouts that the railroad served along with the monthly amount of cars shipped per loadout. I was wondering if Southern published something like this and if any are in the archives?

-Evan Miller


Jason Greene
 

Alabama coal went all over. Most was used in region for iron and steel production. It is/was great coking coal. 
Some went to Mobile for export via Southern, L&N, and GM&O/IC. Some went to Savannah via CG. Some went to Charleston via Southern. 
A good bit also went north to Ohio and Pennsylvania to the other steel/iron regions. 

I know Coke was shipped north by the L&N and Southern from the various coke plants too. 

Lambert’s Point could have been used in the NS era but not likely before. 

Jason Greene 

On Feb 15, 2020, at 3:57 PM, Gino Damen <g.damen@...> wrote:


Hi,

We (US modelers in the Netherlands) are wondering where the coal from Alabama was transported to? Was it to Mobile or went everything to Lamberts Point?

Best regards,

Gino Damen
Fremo US Netherlands

On 14-2-2020 at 03:02, C J Wyatt <cjwyatt@...> wrote:
I got lucky. The guess of twenty pages (including covers) was good, but date of issue was March 1, 1952. I have been relieved of pages 17-18. I have attached scan of cover and map of Alabama District

Jack Wyatt



On Thursday, February 13, 2020, 08:42:31 PM EST, C J Wyatt <cjwyatt@...> wrote:


I have one somewhere if I can find it. I am thinking late forties, staple bound, about 20 pages. Unfortunately someone took a pair of scissors to some of the sections.

Jack Wyatt

On Thursday, February 13, 2020, 08:11:24 PM EST, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:


Evan:

I am not aware of a comprehensive coal mine directory but mines are mentioned in various documents.

The most extensive are in files about the coal pier at Charleston. Mines on the Interstate and Southern in SW VA, and how much traffic moved on the L&N are described there.

Contracts 166, 212, 244, 353, 363, 369, 379, 435, 437, 547 and the “Southern News Bulletin” (SNB) reference many mines in Alabama and Tennessee. (A list of contracts was published some time ago and I will check to see if the GRAB has DVDs with the SNBs scans in stock tomorrow. They are an excellent source of information on the Southern.)

The following photo (1 of about 30) shows the Charleston coal pier under construction July 11, 1915. In addition to loading colliers, I was surprised to find ships came to the pier just for bunker coal, a good side business for the Southern.

All of these topics would make for an interesting TIES article if someone is interested in doing the research.

Ike

<Charleston coal pier #8.jpg>



On Feb 13, 2020, at 5:55 PM, Evan Miller via Groups.Io <nsrailfan82@...> wrote:

Did Southern ever publish coal mine directories? I’ve seen several published by the Virginian Railway. They list the various coal loadouts that the railroad served along with the monthly amount of cars shipped per loadout. I was wondering if Southern published something like this and if any are in the archives?

-Evan Miller


Evan Miller
 

A big thank you to you Mr. Wyatt! I've been looking for this kind of information for a long time! This confirms a lot of things I've been looking into. I never knew about that loadout a Kelos, such a small customer may be a great subject to model. Another thing I find interesting is that it mentions the various seams of coal that was being mined.

Scott, are you referring to Middlesboro? In 1969 L&N filed for abandonment of the Stoney Fork Branch from MP CV 221.8 to 226.8, which the Capito and Garmeada/Murtea tipples were. Fast-forward to 80's and the remainder of the Stoney Fork Branch had five loadouts, some of which only shipped over Southern or Seaboard and some were joint. Several truck dumps were opened downtown. Bennets Fork had three, with one being joint, one being Southern only and one shipping over L&N. 

In regard to Lambert's Point, I found an old article (1958 I think) from the local paper about New Atlas Coal Company opening a new mine at the Capito. According to the paper, the old Hignite seam they were working gave out in 1952 and then they switched to the 44" Sterling seam. The article goes on to say the following:

"It can load block, egg, stoker, and steam coal. The company has customers located as far away as Indiana, Toledo Docks, Detroit, Georgia, Chattanooga, North Carolina and South Carolina. It also ships coal to Lambert's Point Va. where it is shipped to customers overseas. During the gas shortage Kivett (the company's president) said the company cut off all outside trucks and shipped several hundred tons of coal to Middlesboro users"

So some coal did go to Lambert's Point, but I'm not for certain if it would have been routed via the L&N's connection with the N&W near Norton or Southern via Bristol. 

-Evan Miller

C J Wyatt
 

The question was about  coal from the Alabama District to Lamberts Point. I have learned never to say never, but surely it was not much if any at all.

Jack Wyatt

On Saturday, February 15, 2020, 05:20:44 PM EST, Evan Miller via Groups.Io <nsrailfan82@...> wrote:


So some coal did go to Lambert's Point, but I'm not for certain if it would have been routed via the L&N's connection with the N&W near Norton or Southern via Bristol. 

-Evan Miller

D. Scott Chatfield
 

I gather some Alabama coal even made it as far west as the Colorado Fuel & Iron steel mill near Pueblo, Colorado.  I gather this didn't happen until the '60s, and perhaps was done only because mines in southern Colorado owned by CF&I were either on strike or had played out.  CF&I opened the Jensen Mine west of Trinidad by 1970 which supplied most of the mill's coal in later years.

The reports of Alabama coal to CF&I showed it moving in L&N hoppers.  Haven't heard of any Southern hoppers getting out there, but you know what "they" say....


Scott Chatfield