locked Southern Railway History


George Eichelberger
 

In 2005, Norfolk Southern donated a number of printed, but unbound, copies of “The Legal History of the Southern Railway”  to SRHA. Written in 1901, by future SR President Fairfax Harrison, with supplements in 1921 and 1958, they represent the most complete and accurate description of the creation and development of the Southern Railway System.

They were printed, packaged and kept in the NS Archives until they were donated to SRHA. In 2005, SRHA President Dan Sparks had them trimmed and bound and we sold them through our Company Store, “The Grab". While the bindings were new, the SRHA versions are not reprints. Unfortunately, the limited supply has been sold out for quite some time.

For anyone fortunate to have copies of the two Volume set, here is the response sent to almost anyone asking Southern for a copy from 1901 to 2006. From the SRHA - Southern Railway Presidents’ Files collection Box 192A File 21:

Ike


Carl Ardrey
 

We do have a few copies left.
CEA

On 08/22/2021 4:38 PM George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:
 
 
In 2005, Norfolk Southern donated a number of printed, but unbound, copies of “The Legal History of the Southern Railway”  to SRHA. Written in 1901, by future SR President Fairfax Harrison, with supplements in 1921 and 1958, they represent the most complete and accurate description of the creation and development of the Southern Railway System.
 
They were printed, packaged and kept in the NS Archives until they were donated to SRHA. In 2005, SRHA President Dan Sparks had them trimmed and bound and we sold them through our Company Store, “The Grab". While the bindings were new, the SRHA versions are not reprints. Unfortunately, the limited supply has been sold out for quite some time.
 
For anyone fortunate to have copies of the two Volume set, here is the response sent to almost anyone asking Southern for a copy from 1901 to 2006. From the SRHA - Southern Railway Presidents’ Files collection Box 192A File 21:
 
Ike
 


Wick Moorman
 

Carl
Can you set one aside for me?
Thanks
Wick


On Aug 22, 2021, at 6:32 PM, Carl Ardrey <carlardrey2005@...> wrote:


We do have a few copies left.
CEA
On 08/22/2021 4:38 PM George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:
 
 
In 2005, Norfolk Southern donated a number of printed, but unbound, copies of “The Legal History of the Southern Railway”  to SRHA. Written in 1901, by future SR President Fairfax Harrison, with supplements in 1921 and 1958, they represent the most complete and accurate description of the creation and development of the Southern Railway System.
 
They were printed, packaged and kept in the NS Archives until they were donated to SRHA. In 2005, SRHA President Dan Sparks had them trimmed and bound and we sold them through our Company Store, “The Grab". While the bindings were new, the SRHA versions are not reprints. Unfortunately, the limited supply has been sold out for quite some time.
 
For anyone fortunate to have copies of the two Volume set, here is the response sent to almost anyone asking Southern for a copy from 1901 to 2006. From the SRHA - Southern Railway Presidents’ Files collection Box 192A File 21:
 
Ike
 
<1917-1-22 Response to request for SR History.jpeg>


John Stewart
 

Hi folks

Not sure about the two addenda but the 1901 tome may be found online and downloaded

John Stewart
Birmingham, AL


David Carpenter
 

Strange that the letter states “never intended for publication.” I used to go to the North Carolina Collection in the Louis Round Wilson Library in Chapel Hill in the early 70’s and a person wearing white gloves would go retrieve this book for me to sit and read.. It was well-worn with brown leather wraps. I was stunned when I saw the set laying on the SRHA table at a train show in Winston-Salem 20-30 years ago it seems! Best $100 bill I spent that year! Thanks to whoever decided to bind them!!!!!

Others are selling entire collections of their magazines back issues for $99-$129 roughly it seems. I agree with others that is the market. Maybe 10% off with a new membership even.

David

On Aug 22, 2021, at 6:32 PM, Carl Ardrey <carlardrey2005@...> wrote:

We do have a few copies left.
CEA
On 08/22/2021 4:38 PM George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:
 
 
In 2005, Norfolk Southern donated a number of printed, but unbound, copies of “The Legal History of the Southern Railway”  to SRHA. Written in 1901, by future SR President Fairfax Harrison, with supplements in 1921 and 1958, they represent the most complete and accurate description of the creation and development of the Southern Railway System.
 
They were printed, packaged and kept in the NS Archives until they were donated to SRHA. In 2005, SRHA President Dan Sparks had them trimmed and bound and we sold them through our Company Store, “The Grab". While the bindings were new, the SRHA versions are not reprints. Unfortunately, the limited supply has been sold out for quite some time.
 
For anyone fortunate to have copies of the two Volume set, here is the response sent to almost anyone asking Southern for a copy from 1901 to 2006. From the SRHA - Southern Railway Presidents’ Files collection Box 192A File 21:
 
Ike
 
<1917-1-22 Response to request for SR History.jpeg>


George Eichelberger
 

David:

Note the attached….

If Fairfax Harrison was not willing to send the “LOC” a copy of the “History, you know they were serious about not letting it get out!

Ike



On Aug 23, 2021, at 1:07 PM, David Carpenter via groups.io <dcarp@...> wrote:

Strange that the letter states “never intended for publication.” I used to go to the North Carolina Collection in the Louis Round Wilson Library in Chapel Hill in the early 70’s and a person wearing white gloves would go retrieve this book for me to sit and read.. It was well-worn with brown leather wraps. I was stunned when I saw the set laying on the SRHA table at a train show in Winston-Salem 20-30 years ago it seems! Best $100 bill I spent that year! Thanks to whoever decided to bind them!!!!!

Others are selling entire collections of their magazines back issues for $99-$129 roughly it seems. I agree with others that is the market. Maybe 10% off with a new membership even.

David



Robert Hanson
 

At one time in the early 1970's I asked the University of Georgia Libraries to search for a copy that they could borrow in inter-library library loan that I could use and they could not find a single copy in any public library in about sever southeastern states.

I later acquired a copy through a trade and when, in the 1990's, the NS archives found out that I had a copy, they were very nervous about that and were more than a little interested in how I had acquired it.  They were very antsy about any copies being in other-than-corporate hands.

Given that attitude, I was totally amazed that they released any of the copies, let alone all that they had.

Bob Hanson
Loganville, GA


-----Original Message-----
From: George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...>
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Sent: Mon, Aug 23, 2021 3:06 pm
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Southern Railway History

David:

Note the attached….

If Fairfax Harrison was not willing to send the “LOC” a copy of the “History, you know they were serious about not letting it get out!

Ike



On Aug 23, 2021, at 1:07 PM, David Carpenter via groups.io <dcarp@...> wrote:

Strange that the letter states “never intended for publication.” I used to go to the North Carolina Collection in the Louis Round Wilson Library in Chapel Hill in the early 70’s and a person wearing white gloves would go retrieve this book for me to sit and read.. It was well-worn with brown leather wraps. I was stunned when I saw the set laying on the SRHA table at a train show in Winston-Salem 20-30 years ago it seems! Best $100 bill I spent that year! Thanks to whoever decided to bind them!!!!!

Others are selling entire collections of their magazines back issues for $99-$129 roughly it seems. I agree with others that is the market. Maybe 10% off with a new membership even.

David



Carl Ardrey
 

My father did a synopsis of Fairfax Harrison's work for some project.  He had to jump through hoops to get the loan of a copy in the '60's.
CEA

On 08/23/2021 2:18 PM Robert Hanson via groups.io <rhanson669@...> wrote:
 
 
At one time in the early 1970's I asked the University of Georgia Libraries to search for a copy that they could borrow in inter-library library loan that I could use and they could not find a single copy in any public library in about sever southeastern states.
 
I later acquired a copy through a trade and when, in the 1990's, the NS archives found out that I had a copy, they were very nervous about that and were more than a little interested in how I had acquired it.  They were very antsy about any copies being in other-than-corporate hands.
 
Given that attitude, I was totally amazed that they released any of the copies, let alone all that they had.
 
Bob Hanson
Loganville, GA


-----Original Message-----
From: George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...>
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Sent: Mon, Aug 23, 2021 3:06 pm
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Southern Railway History

David:
 
Note the attached….
 
If Fairfax Harrison was not willing to send the “LOC” a copy of the “History, you know they were serious about not letting it get out!
 
Ike
 


On Aug 23, 2021, at 1:07 PM, David Carpenter via groups.io < dcarp@...> wrote:

 
Strange that the letter states “never intended for publication.” I used to go to the North Carolina Collection in the Louis Round Wilson Library in Chapel Hill in the early 70’s and a person wearing white gloves would go retrieve this book for me to sit and read.. It was well-worn with brown leather wraps. I was stunned when I saw the set laying on the SRHA table at a train show in Winston-Salem 20-30 years ago it seems! Best $100 bill I spent that year! Thanks to whoever decided to bind them!!!!!
 
Others are selling entire collections of their magazines back issues for $99-$129 roughly it seems. I agree with others that is the market. Maybe 10% off with a new membership even.
 
David
 
 


David Carpenter
 

Wow, Ike!!!! What a revelation. Wonder how the UNC Library came across it? Interesting stuff!!!!!!

David

On Aug 23, 2021, at 3:06 PM, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:

David:

Note the attached….

If Fairfax Harrison was not willing to send the “LOC” a copy of the “History, you know they were serious about not letting it get out!

Ike

<1926-5-12 FH to LOC re request for SR History.jpeg>

On Aug 23, 2021, at 1:07 PM, David Carpenter via groups.io <dcarp@...> wrote:

Strange that the letter states “never intended for publication.” I used to go to the North Carolina Collection in the Louis Round Wilson Library in Chapel Hill in the early 70’s and a person wearing white gloves would go retrieve this book for me to sit and read.. It was well-worn with brown leather wraps. I was stunned when I saw the set laying on the SRHA table at a train show in Winston-Salem 20-30 years ago it seems! Best $100 bill I spent that year! Thanks to whoever decided to bind them!!!!!

Others are selling entire collections of their magazines back issues for $99-$129 roughly it seems. I agree with others that is the market. Maybe 10% off with a new membership even.

David




Michael Roderick
 

I have had good luck dealing with the UNC Wilson Library. It takes them a while to answer questions but the information is great.

Mike 


On Aug 23, 2021, at 15:46, David Carpenter via groups.io <dcarp@...> wrote:

 Wow, Ike!!!! What a revelation. Wonder how the UNC Library came across it? Interesting stuff!!!!!!

David

On Aug 23, 2021, at 3:06 PM, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:

David:

Note the attached….

If Fairfax Harrison was not willing to send the “LOC” a copy of the “History, you know they were serious about not letting it get out!

Ike

<1926-5-12 FH to LOC re request for SR History.jpeg>

On Aug 23, 2021, at 1:07 PM, David Carpenter via groups.io <dcarp@...> wrote:

Strange that the letter states “never intended for publication.” I used to go to the North Carolina Collection in the Louis Round Wilson Library in Chapel Hill in the early 70’s and a person wearing white gloves would go retrieve this book for me to sit and read.. It was well-worn with brown leather wraps. I was stunned when I saw the set laying on the SRHA table at a train show in Winston-Salem 20-30 years ago it seems! Best $100 bill I spent that year! Thanks to whoever decided to bind them!!!!!

Others are selling entire collections of their magazines back issues for $99-$129 roughly it seems. I agree with others that is the market. Maybe 10% off with a new membership even.

David




George Eichelberger
 

As info…

Before the unbound copies of the “History” were given to SRHA, the decision was vetted and approved by the NS Law Dept. In particular, one of the Lawyers, Mr. Jim Squires, was instrumental in approving the decision. I am certain part of that decision was based on NS’ belief that SRHA was a credible organization and the material would be dealt with appropriately.

Southern historians and modelers today owe a lot of “thanks” to NS executives such as Jim Squires, (SRHA member) Wick Moorman and others for allowing SRHA to acquire so many important historical documents. As far as we have been able to determine, SRHA is the ONLY historical group with such a large collection of Executive, Engineering and Mechanical Department files from “their” railroad.

(Now for the bad news!)
At the same time Bill Schafer and I were using the 30 days we were given to remove personal or sensitive corporate information from the Presidents’ files to be shredded, at least a half-dozen dumpster loads of Operating Dept. material from other floors of the 175 Spring St building were lost. Our decision was not easy! As both Bill and I were “NS officers”, we had to do the work ourselves. There simply was not time for us to obtain and preserve both collections.

The reason for the rush? To make space in the Spring Street buildings before the Conrail takeover date.

The quality and generosity of NS in all of this cannot be overstated! I asked NS Intermodal if they would let SRHA use a trailer to move the collection to Chattanooga.They not only spotted a trailer at the 175 building loading dock, they moved it to Chattanooga for us.

Because of Norfolk Southern, the “Green Light” still shines.

Ike

CC Mr. Bill Schafer



On Aug 23, 2021, at 3:18 PM, Robert Hanson via groups.io <RHanson669@...> wrote:

At one time in the early 1970's I asked the University of Georgia Libraries to search for a copy that they could borrow in inter-library library loan that I could use and they could not find a single copy in any public library in about sever southeastern states.

I later acquired a copy through a trade and when, in the 1990's, the NS archives found out that I had a copy, they were very nervous about that and were more than a little interested in how I had acquired it.  They were very antsy about any copies being in other-than-corporate hands.

Given that attitude, I was totally amazed that they released any of the copies, let alone all that they had.

Bob Hanson
Loganville, GA


-----Original Message-----
From: George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...>
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Sent: Mon, Aug 23, 2021 3:06 pm
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Southern Railway History

David:

Note the attached….

If Fairfax Harrison was not willing to send the “LOC” a copy of the “History, you know they were serious about not letting it get out!

Ike

<1926-5-12 FH to LOC re request for SR History.jpeg>

On Aug 23, 2021, at 1:07 PM, David Carpenter via groups.io <dcarp@...> wrote:

Strange that the letter states “never intended for publication.” I used to go to the North Carolina Collection in the Louis Round Wilson Library in Chapel Hill in the early 70’s and a person wearing white gloves would go retrieve this book for me to sit and read.. It was well-worn with brown leather wraps. I was stunned when I saw the set laying on the SRHA table at a train show in Winston-Salem 20-30 years ago it seems! Best $100 bill I spent that year! Thanks to whoever decided to bind them!!!!!

Others are selling entire collections of their magazines back issues for $99-$129 roughly it seems. I agree with others that is the market. Maybe 10% off with a new membership even.

David


<1926-5-12 FH to LOC re request for SR History.jpeg>


Tracey Green
 

The 1901 version of the legal history is accessible on Google Books. https://books.google.com/books/about/A_History_of_the_Legal_Development_of_th.html?id=0IkjAQAAMAAJ

Tracey Green


Bill Schafer
 

My hat is off to those who had the patience to scan those 1523 pages! This appears to be just the first two (original) volumes and does not include the 1921 and 1958 supplements.

—Bill

On Aug 23, 2021, at 17:06, Tracey Green <tracey.c.green@...> wrote:

The 1901 version of the legal history is accessible on Google Books. https://books.google.com/books/about/A_History_of_the_Legal_Development_of_th.html?id=0IkjAQAAMAAJ

Tracey Green



sou1952 hayes
 

Bill,
Wasn't there some issues with the first two publications? I have heard stories that they weren't published and the they had the same articles or were just test runs.

Chris


-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Schafer <bill4501@...>
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Sent: Mon, Aug 23, 2021 5:26 pm
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Southern Railway History

My hat is off to those who had the patience to scan those 1523 pages! This appears to be just the first two (original) volumes and does not include the 1921 and 1958 supplements.

—Bill

On Aug 23, 2021, at 17:06, Tracey Green <tracey.c.green@...> wrote:

The 1901 version of the legal history is accessible on Google Books. https://books.google.com/books/about/A_History_of_the_Legal_Development_of_th.html?id=0IkjAQAAMAAJ

Tracey Green



aramsay18
 

Hello all

As noted by one or two prior emails, courtesy of Google Books and University of Michigan, a complete and free PDF copy of "A History of the Legal Development of the Railroad System of Southern Railway Company" by Fairfax Harrison (dated 1901) can be downloaded by starting here:

https://books.google.com/books/about/A_History_of_the_Legal_Development_of_th.html?id=0IkjAQAAMAAJ

This free PDF softcopy is searchable.

I haven't found softcopies of the 1921 and 1958 supplements online.  I did purchase hardcopies of both supplements on Amazon.  Other book sellers may have hardcopies.

Of note, the Google Books scan of the 1901 document is from a hardbound library book.  Presumably it was put into a hard binding by someone other than the Southern.

The 1921 supplement is about 100 pages.  The 1958 supplement is about 590 pages.

I believe my hardcopy of Parts I through V was bound into book form by the Southern (see attached picture).

If anyone has a link to softcopies of the two supplements, please let me know.

Andy Ramsay
Berryville VA

On Mon, Aug 23, 2021 at 3:06 PM George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:
David:

Note the attached….

If Fairfax Harrison was not willing to send the “LOC” a copy of the “History, you know they were serious about not letting it get out!

Ike



On Aug 23, 2021, at 1:07 PM, David Carpenter via groups.io <dcarp@...> wrote:

Strange that the letter states “never intended for publication.” I used to go to the North Carolina Collection in the Louis Round Wilson Library in Chapel Hill in the early 70’s and a person wearing white gloves would go retrieve this book for me to sit and read.. It was well-worn with brown leather wraps. I was stunned when I saw the set laying on the SRHA table at a train show in Winston-Salem 20-30 years ago it seems! Best $100 bill I spent that year! Thanks to whoever decided to bind them!!!!!

Others are selling entire collections of their magazines back issues for $99-$129 roughly it seems. I agree with others that is the market. Maybe 10% off with a new membership even.

David



aramsay18
 

Hello  Chris

I have an interest in the early years of the Southern, from the early 1890s through the 1930s, how it was formed, structured, financed, and evolved, which is quite a story by itself.  The history's stated purpose is to document the legal aspects of that monumental project.  However, it also has information on other aspects, to include some financial and some operational data can be gleaned from it.  IMHO it is the best source for such early material on the formation of the Southern that is publicly available.  (Haven't explored the SRHA archives in this area yet.)  I've been using the two hardcopy, softbound books parts 1 through 5 for a while and have not found any issues such as missing pages, meaningless text or anything like that.  It appears the version I have was soft bound by the Southern.  The online Google Books softcopy version was scanned from a hardbound copy (it appears that is one 1545 page book) from the transportation library at the University of Michigan. So U of M took delivery of it from the Southern somehow.  Perhaps they put it into hardbound form. I doubt it would have been included in their transportation library if it was of no value. Review of their copy shows some times when the person doing the scanning became tired and didn't line up the pages quite right, but I've yet to find any unreadable pages completely messed up by the scanner.  It is puzzling to me why they refused LOC's request but apparently satisfied U of M's request.  I can understand why the Southern would state the compilation is basically what is called working papers and not a formal document, because if they designate it a formal document, then it might box them into a corner in various legal actions (of which there were plenty).  Perhaps that is why they didn't want to make it available to the general public.  However nevertheless quite a bit of work was put into it.

Andy Ramsay
Berryville VA

On Mon, Aug 23, 2021 at 5:44 PM sou1952 hayes via groups.io <Sou1952=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Bill,
Wasn't there some issues with the first two publications? I have heard stories that they weren't published and the they had the same articles or were just test runs.

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Schafer <bill4501@...>
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Sent: Mon, Aug 23, 2021 5:26 pm
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Southern Railway History

My hat is off to those who had the patience to scan those 1523 pages! This appears to be just the first two (original) volumes and does not include the 1921 and 1958 supplements.

—Bill

On Aug 23, 2021, at 17:06, Tracey Green <tracey.c.green@...> wrote:

The 1901 version of the legal history is accessible on Google Books. https://books.google.com/books/about/A_History_of_the_Legal_Development_of_th.html?id=0IkjAQAAMAAJ

Tracey Green



C J Wyatt
 

I suspect that a copy in a library (e.g. University of Michigan) did not come directly from the Southern Railway, but perhaps from the estate of an official or board of directors member who managed to snag a copy for themselves.

Jack Wyatt

On Monday, August 23, 2021, 06:19:48 PM EDT, aramsay18 <aramsay37@...> wrote:


Hello  Chris

I have an interest in the early years of the Southern, from the early 1890s through the 1930s, how it was formed, structured, financed, and evolved, which is quite a story by itself.  The history's stated purpose is to document the legal aspects of that monumental project.  However, it also has information on other aspects, to include some financial and some operational data can be gleaned from it.  IMHO it is the best source for such early material on the formation of the Southern that is publicly available.  (Haven't explored the SRHA archives in this area yet.)  I've been using the two hardcopy, softbound books parts 1 through 5 for a while and have not found any issues such as missing pages, meaningless text or anything like that.  It appears the version I have was soft bound by the Southern.  The online Google Books softcopy version was scanned from a hardbound copy (it appears that is one 1545 page book) from the transportation library at the University of Michigan. So U of M took delivery of it from the Southern somehow.  Perhaps they put it into hardbound form. I doubt it would have been included in their transportation library if it was of no value. Review of their copy shows some times when the person doing the scanning became tired and didn't line up the pages quite right, but I've yet to find any unreadable pages completely messed up by the scanner.  It is puzzling to me why they refused LOC's request but apparently satisfied U of M's request.  I can understand why the Southern would state the compilation is basically what is called working papers and not a formal document, because if they designate it a formal document, then it might box them into a corner in various legal actions (of which there were plenty).  Perhaps that is why they didn't want to make it available to the general public.  However nevertheless quite a bit of work was put into it.

Andy Ramsay
Berryville VA



Bill Schafer
 

I have seen a number of sets of bound volumes of the Legal History over the years, and the bindings seem to have been customized a number of different ways. The most common appears to be the main Legal History in two volumes, softcover. The cover is in light blue paper. 

Most of the hardcover ones I have seen are in the camel-brown covers with the red label on the spine. Some of these are in two volumes; some are one gargantuan volume that is usually falling apart if it ever got any use in its lifetime. And then there are the two volume sets that include the First Supplement bound into the second volume. 

The First Supplement was also produced in a stand-alone soft cover version and hard cover version. Usually, the 100 page hardcover was in the same camel-brown-with-red-label-on-spine as its bigger brothers. 

As for the Second Supplement, I don’t think I ever saw it in a paperback version; my sense is that Southern bound all of them in the camel brown when they were printed. Together, the pre-SRHA bound volumes clustered together on a bookshelf look impressive, like they belong in a lawyer’s office (which they usually were). 

I have no proof of this - maybe someone on the list can clarify - but it would make sense to me that some, if not all, of Southern’s outside counsels had sets of the Legal History on their bookshelves too. That may be why Southern had so many extra, unbound copies printed - to send to new outside counsel as needed.

Much harder to find is the other component to make the Legal History set complete: the large, framed 1921 system map that hung on the wall of many attorneys in the executive headquarters in Washington. On this map, each line or line segment is numbered, and each number correlates to a long list on the right of the map. Each item on the list refers to one of Southern’s many predecessors or components. To learn more about the predecessor, you look its name up in the index (at end of the second volume of the original Legal History). The map was issued about the time the First Supplement was printed. 

Not one to waste a good base map, Southern reduced, adapted, and updated it over the years and used it for myriad other purposes over the years. Here’s an example of the base map, with the list of predecessors. The list on the left is arranged by the numbered line segment; the list on the right is alphabetical and also shows the number of the corresponding line segment. This map has been updated to 1962 (it shows the Interstate but not the Central of Georgia, for example) and should look familiar. Any number of special-purpose maps for internal use were adapted from this map over the years:

—Bill Schafer

On Aug 23, 2021, at 19:03, C J Wyatt <cjwyatt@...> wrote:

I suspect that a copy in a library (e.g. University of Michigan) did not come directly from the Southern Railway, but perhaps from the estate of an official or board of directors member who managed to snag a copy for themselves.

Jack Wyatt

On Monday, August 23, 2021, 06:19:48 PM EDT, aramsay18 <aramsay37@...> wrote:


Hello  Chris

I have an interest in the early years of the Southern, from the early 1890s through the 1930s, how it was formed, structured, financed, and evolved, which is quite a story by itself.  The history's stated purpose is to document the legal aspects of that monumental project.  However, it also has information on other aspects, to include some financial and some operational data can be gleaned from it.  IMHO it is the best source for such early material on the formation of the Southern that is publicly available.  (Haven't explored the SRHA archives in this area yet.)  I've been using the two hardcopy, softbound books parts 1 through 5 for a while and have not found any issues such as missing pages, meaningless text or anything like that.  It appears the version I have was soft bound by the Southern.  The online Google Books softcopy version was scanned from a hardbound copy (it appears that is one 1545 page book) from the transportation library at the University of Michigan. So U of M took delivery of it from the Southern somehow.  Perhaps they put it into hardbound form. I doubt it would have been included in their transportation library if it was of no value. Review of their copy shows some times when the person doing the scanning became tired and didn't line up the pages quite right, but I've yet to find any unreadable pages completely messed up by the scanner.  It is puzzling to me why they refused LOC's request but apparently satisfied U of M's request.  I can understand why the Southern would state the compilation is basically what is called working papers and not a formal document, because if they designate it a formal document, then it might box them into a corner in various legal actions (of which there were plenty).  Perhaps that is why they didn't want to make it available to the general public.  However nevertheless quite a bit of work was put into it.

Andy Ramsay
Berryville VA




Robert Hanson
 

I seem to recall seeing a color-coded version of this map at the NS archives a number of years ago.  At first glance I thought it was one of the color-coded division maps that are fairly common, but on closer inspection it was a version of this one, not updated as this one is.

It was a gorgeous map.

Bob Hanson
Loganville, GA


-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Schafer <bill4501@...>
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Sent: Mon, Aug 23, 2021 8:52 pm
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Southern Railway History

I have seen a number of sets of bound volumes of the Legal History over the years, and the bindings seem to have been customized a number of different ways. The most common appears to be the main Legal History in two volumes, softcover. The cover is in light blue paper. 

Most of the hardcover ones I have seen are in the camel-brown covers with the red label on the spine. Some of these are in two volumes; some are one gargantuan volume that is usually falling apart if it ever got any use in its lifetime. And then there are the two volume sets that include the First Supplement bound into the second volume. 

The First Supplement was also produced in a stand-alone soft cover version and hard cover version. Usually, the 100 page hardcover was in the same camel-brown-with-red-label-on-spine as its bigger brothers. 

As for the Second Supplement, I don’t think I ever saw it in a paperback version; my sense is that Southern bound all of them in the camel brown when they were printed. Together, the pre-SRHA bound volumes clustered together on a bookshelf look impressive, like they belong in a lawyer’s office (which they usually were). 

I have no proof of this - maybe someone on the list can clarify - but it would make sense to me that some, if not all, of Southern’s outside counsels had sets of the Legal History on their bookshelves too. That may be why Southern had so many extra, unbound copies printed - to send to new outside counsel as needed.

Much harder to find is the other component to make the Legal History set complete: the large, framed 1921 system map that hung on the wall of many attorneys in the executive headquarters in Washington. On this map, each line or line segment is numbered, and each number correlates to a long list on the right of the map. Each item on the list refers to one of Southern’s many predecessors or components. To learn more about the predecessor, you look its name up in the index (at end of the second volume of the original Legal History). The map was issued about the time the First Supplement was printed. 

Not one to waste a good base map, Southern reduced, adapted, and updated it over the years and used it for myriad other purposes over the years. Here’s an example of the base map, with the list of predecessors. The list on the left is arranged by the numbered line segment; the list on the right is alphabetical and also shows the number of the corresponding line segment. This map has been updated to 1962 (it shows the Interstate but not the Central of Georgia, for example) and should look familiar. Any number of special-purpose maps for internal use were adapted from this map over the years:

—Bill Schafer

On Aug 23, 2021, at 19:03, C J Wyatt <cjwyatt@...> wrote:

I suspect that a copy in a library (e.g. University of Michigan) did not come directly from the Southern Railway, but perhaps from the estate of an official or board of directors member who managed to snag a copy for themselves.

Jack Wyatt

On Monday, August 23, 2021, 06:19:48 PM EDT, aramsay18 <aramsay37@...> wrote:


Hello  Chris

I have an interest in the early years of the Southern, from the early 1890s through the 1930s, how it was formed, structured, financed, and evolved, which is quite a story by itself.  The history's stated purpose is to document the legal aspects of that monumental project.  However, it also has information on other aspects, to include some financial and some operational data can be gleaned from it.  IMHO it is the best source for such early material on the formation of the Southern that is publicly available.  (Haven't explored the SRHA archives in this area yet.)  I've been using the two hardcopy, softbound books parts 1 through 5 for a while and have not found any issues such as missing pages, meaningless text or anything like that.  It appears the version I have was soft bound by the Southern.  The online Google Books softcopy version was scanned from a hardbound copy (it appears that is one 1545 page book) from the transportation library at the University of Michigan. So U of M took delivery of it from the Southern somehow.  Perhaps they put it into hardbound form. I doubt it would have been included in their transportation library if it was of no value. Review of their copy shows some times when the person doing the scanning became tired and didn't line up the pages quite right, but I've yet to find any unreadable pages completely messed up by the scanner.  It is puzzling to me why they refused LOC's request but apparently satisfied U of M's request.  I can understand why the Southern would state the compilation is basically what is called working papers and not a formal document, because if they designate it a formal document, then it might box them into a corner in various legal actions (of which there were plenty).  Perhaps that is why they didn't want to make it available to the general public.  However nevertheless quite a bit of work was put into it.

Andy Ramsay
Berryville VA




Robert Richardson
 

Here is the set of Legal History of the Southern Railway that I have. Bought this set from SRHA at Train Show some years ago, I do not remember the year I purchased these, but it was many moons ago.

 

Robert Richardson

Henderson, NC

MP S114.5

 

From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bill Schafer
Sent: Monday, August 23, 2021 8:53 PM
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Southern Railway History

 

I have seen a number of sets of bound volumes of the Legal History over the years, and the bindings seem to have been customized a number of different ways. The most common appears to be the main Legal History in two volumes, softcover. The cover is in light blue paper. 

 

Most of the hardcover ones I have seen are in the camel-brown covers with the red label on the spine. Some of these are in two volumes; some are one gargantuan volume that is usually falling apart if it ever got any use in its lifetime. And then there are the two volume sets that include the First Supplement bound into the second volume. 

 

The First Supplement was also produced in a stand-alone soft cover version and hard cover version. Usually, the 100 page hardcover was in the same camel-brown-with-red-label-on-spine as its bigger brothers. 

 

As for the Second Supplement, I don’t think I ever saw it in a paperback version; my sense is that Southern bound all of them in the camel brown when they were printed. Together, the pre-SRHA bound volumes clustered together on a bookshelf look impressive, like they belong in a lawyer’s office (which they usually were). 

 

I have no proof of this - maybe someone on the list can clarify - but it would make sense to me that some, if not all, of Southern’s outside counsels had sets of the Legal History on their bookshelves too. That may be why Southern had so many extra, unbound copies printed - to send to new outside counsel as needed.

 

Much harder to find is the other component to make the Legal History set complete: the large, framed 1921 system map that hung on the wall of many attorneys in the executive headquarters in Washington. On this map, each line or line segment is numbered, and each number correlates to a long list on the right of the map. Each item on the list refers to one of Southern’s many predecessors or components. To learn more about the predecessor, you look its name up in the index (at end of the second volume of the original Legal History). The map was issued about the time the First Supplement was printed. 

 

Not one to waste a good base map, Southern reduced, adapted, and updated it over the years and used it for myriad other purposes over the years. Here’s an example of the base map, with the list of predecessors. The list on the left is arranged by the numbered line segment; the list on the right is alphabetical and also shows the number of the corresponding line segment. This map has been updated to 1962 (it shows the Interstate but not the Central of Georgia, for example) and should look familiar. Any number of special-purpose maps for internal use were adapted from this map over the years:

 

—Bill Schafer



On Aug 23, 2021, at 19:03, C J Wyatt <cjwyatt@...> wrote:

 

I suspect that a copy in a library (e.g. University of Michigan) did not come directly from the Southern Railway, but perhaps from the estate of an official or board of directors member who managed to snag a copy for themselves.

 

Jack Wyatt

 

On Monday, August 23, 2021, 06:19:48 PM EDT, aramsay18 <aramsay37@...> wrote:

 

 

Hello  Chris

 

I have an interest in the early years of the Southern, from the early 1890s through the 1930s, how it was formed, structured, financed, and evolved, which is quite a story by itself.  The history's stated purpose is to document the legal aspects of that monumental project.  However, it also has information on other aspects, to include some financial and some operational data can be gleaned from it.  IMHO it is the best source for such early material on the formation of the Southern that is publicly available.  (Haven't explored the SRHA archives in this area yet.)  I've been using the two hardcopy, softbound books parts 1 through 5 for a while and have not found any issues such as missing pages, meaningless text or anything like that.  It appears the version I have was soft bound by the Southern.  The online Google Books softcopy version was scanned from a hardbound copy (it appears that is one 1545 page book) from the transportation library at the University of Michigan. So U of M took delivery of it from the Southern somehow.  Perhaps they put it into hardbound form. I doubt it would have been included in their transportation library if it was of no value. Review of their copy shows some times when the person doing the scanning became tired and didn't line up the pages quite right, but I've yet to find any unreadable pages completely messed up by the scanner.  It is puzzling to me why they refused LOC's request but apparently satisfied U of M's request.  I can understand why the Southern would state the compilation is basically what is called working papers and not a formal document, because if they designate it a formal document, then it might box them into a corner in various legal actions (of which there were plenty).  Perhaps that is why they didn't want to make it available to the general public.  However nevertheless quite a bit of work was put into it.

 

Andy Ramsay

Berryville VA