locked Southern Railway Prince book reprints - takers??


Cohen Bob
 

Gordon and all:

The Prince books, all 10 or 11 of them covering the different railroads of the south that he documented are fantastic resources, even today, the SR included.

Maybe forgotten is that in the early 2000's, four of his titles were reprinted, Seaboard Air Line, Atlantic Coast Line, NC&St. L, and the L&N. The quality of the reprinted photos I am told made Prince livid and he forbid any others from being done, and yes, the reprinted photos were poor, but I also suspect that the available originals weren't that good either. At the time, the NC&St. L was THE most expensive one and by far, and seldom seen, maybe even less often actual sales taking place. It was a $350-$400 item.

Post reprinted, they all have settled down to around the $40-$60 plus or minus a little area. The other RR's still retain serious interest for the researcher, those of the N&W, RF&P, A&WP, New Georgia, Southern, and the original Norfolk Southern being the most elusive of the bunch. The N&W and RF&P seem to still garner somewhere in the $75-$100 region regularly, maybe a little more, the NS bringing $150 or so if and when you can find them. The Southern one seems to bring $50 plus or minus a little here and there and is among if not THE most popular of the bunch.

Without getting into copyright issues, should one wish to reprint the SR one, that is the marketplace you'll be competing into. I don't know how many original copies Prince made in his various printings of each of the above RR's but for the more popular titles I think it was plenty for the times. Today, my belief is there are sufficient quantity out there for current demand, my opinion, so into the hornet's nest, does one make the commitment of how many thousands of dollars up front money to sell ??????????????? how many of the reprint?

When the 4 reprinted titles were done nearly 20 years ago, as I recall, they were available at the time for $40 each.

What's the risk/reward ratio for a new reprint albeit one that wasn't done back then, and is there enough pent-up demand for another one? My opinion is probably not as the current supply out there fits most needs for the moment. How long that may continue is anyone's best guess, but my opinion is, likely not worth the investment at this time.

My 2 cents worth.

Bob Cohen


Bill Schafer
 

The photo reproduction was not the best in any of the original Prince books, and the reprints were abysmal. They were reprinted by the Indiana University Press, IIRC; the books didn’t do their reputation any favors. 

Considering that the demand for steam books seems to be waning, I’d think twice before reprinting any of the Prince books. If you shop around, you may find a used one reasonably priced. A year or two ago I noticed that the ACL book was missing from my set, so instead of turning the house upside down looking for it, I just ordered another one on-line. I found one on Amazon, being sold by the Danbury Railway Museum for something like $15. It was surplus to their collection and the proceeds went to improving the museum (such as UV protection on all their windows). 

—Bill



On Jun 21, 2022, at 12:10, Cohen Bob via groups.io <orl96782@...> wrote:

Gordon and all:

The Prince books, all 10 or 11 of them covering the different railroads of the south that he documented are fantastic resources, even today, the SR included.

Maybe forgotten is that in the early 2000's, four of his titles were reprinted, Seaboard Air Line, Atlantic Coast Line, NC&St. L, and the L&N. The quality of the reprinted photos I am told made Prince livid and he forbid any others from being done, and yes, the reprinted photos were poor, but I also suspect that the available originals weren't that good either. At the time, the NC&St. L was THE most expensive one and by far, and seldom seen, maybe even less often actual sales taking place. It was a $350-$400 item.

Post reprinted, they all have settled down to around the $40-$60 plus or minus a little area. The other RR's still retain serious interest for the researcher, those of the N&W, RF&P, A&WP, New Georgia, Southern, and the original Norfolk Southern being the most elusive of the bunch. The N&W and RF&P seem to still garner somewhere in the $75-$100 region regularly, maybe a little more, the NS bringing $150 or so if and when you can find them. The Southern one seems to bring $50 plus or minus a little here and there and is among if not THE most popular of the bunch.

Without getting into copyright issues, should one wish to reprint the SR one, that is the marketplace you'll be competing into. I don't know how many original copies Prince made in his various printings of each of the above RR's but for the more popular titles I think it was plenty for the times. Today, my belief is there are sufficient quantity out there for current demand, my opinion, so into the hornet's nest, does one make the commitment of how many thousands of dollars up front money to sell ??????????????? how many of the reprint?

When the 4 reprinted titles were done nearly 20 years ago, as I recall, they were available at the time for $40 each.

What's the risk/reward ratio for a new reprint albeit one that wasn't done back then, and is there enough pent-up demand for another one? My opinion is probably not as the current supply out there fits most needs for the moment. How long that may continue is anyone's best guess, but my opinion is, likely not worth the investment at this time.

My 2 cents worth.

Bob Cohen


A&Y Dave in MD
 

Agree. What’s needed is something more appealing to a new audience to instill interest in a new generation.

What would get a 30 year old interested in Southern Railway steam?

Dave

Sent from Dave Bott's iPhone

On Jun 23, 2022, at 8:37 PM, Bill Schafer <bill4501@...> wrote:

The photo reproduction was not the best in any of the original Prince books, and the reprints were abysmal. They were reprinted by the Indiana University Press, IIRC; the books didn’t do their reputation any favors. 

Considering that the demand for steam books seems to be waning, I’d think twice before reprinting any of the Prince books. If you shop around, you may find a used one reasonably priced. A year or two ago I noticed that the ACL book was missing from my set, so instead of turning the house upside down looking for it, I just ordered another one on-line. I found one on Amazon, being sold by the Danbury Railway Museum for something like $15. It was surplus to their collection and the proceeds went to improving the museum (such as UV protection on all their windows). 

—Bill



On Jun 21, 2022, at 12:10, Cohen Bob via groups.io <orl96782@...> wrote:

Gordon and all:

The Prince books, all 10 or 11 of them covering the different railroads of the south that he documented are fantastic resources, even today, the SR included.

Maybe forgotten is that in the early 2000's, four of his titles were reprinted, Seaboard Air Line, Atlantic Coast Line, NC&St. L, and the L&N. The quality of the reprinted photos I am told made Prince livid and he forbid any others from being done, and yes, the reprinted photos were poor, but I also suspect that the available originals weren't that good either. At the time, the NC&St. L was THE most expensive one and by far, and seldom seen, maybe even less often actual sales taking place. It was a $350-$400 item.

Post reprinted, they all have settled down to around the $40-$60 plus or minus a little area. The other RR's still retain serious interest for the researcher, those of the N&W, RF&P, A&WP, New Georgia, Southern, and the original Norfolk Southern being the most elusive of the bunch. The N&W and RF&P seem to still garner somewhere in the $75-$100 region regularly, maybe a little more, the NS bringing $150 or so if and when you can find them. The Southern one seems to bring $50 plus or minus a little here and there and is among if not THE most popular of the bunch.

Without getting into copyright issues, should one wish to reprint the SR one, that is the marketplace you'll be competing into. I don't know how many original copies Prince made in his various printings of each of the above RR's but for the more popular titles I think it was plenty for the times. Today, my belief is there are sufficient quantity out there for current demand, my opinion, so into the hornet's nest, does one make the commitment of how many thousands of dollars up front money to sell ??????????????? how many of the reprint?

When the 4 reprinted titles were done nearly 20 years ago, as I recall, they were available at the time for $40 each.

What's the risk/reward ratio for a new reprint albeit one that wasn't done back then, and is there enough pent-up demand for another one? My opinion is probably not as the current supply out there fits most needs for the moment. How long that may continue is anyone's best guess, but my opinion is, likely not worth the investment at this time.

My 2 cents worth.

Bob Cohen


C J Wyatt
 

Bill, you scored with the ACL book.

I agree that the trends and economics argue against a reprint / revised edition of the Southern Railway book. But does that also mean that any new book on Southern steam, other than a picture book, is doomed?

Jack

On Thursday, June 23, 2022, 08:38:08 PM EDT, Bill Schafer <bill4501@...> wrote:


The photo reproduction was not the best in any of the original Prince books, and the reprints were abysmal. They were reprinted by the Indiana University Press, IIRC; the books didn’t do their reputation any favors. 

Considering that the demand for steam books seems to be waning, I’d think twice before reprinting any of the Prince books. If you shop around, you may find a used one reasonably priced. A year or two ago I noticed that the ACL book was missing from my set, so instead of turning the house upside down looking for it, I just ordered another one on-line. I found one on Amazon, being sold by the Danbury Railway Museum for something like $15. It was surplus to their collection and the proceeds went to improving the museum (such as UV protection on all their windows). 

—Bill



On Jun 21, 2022, at 12:10, Cohen Bob via groups.io <orl96782@...> wrote:

Gordon and all:

The Prince books, all 10 or 11 of them covering the different railroads of the south that he documented are fantastic resources, even today, the SR included.

Maybe forgotten is that in the early 2000's, four of his titles were reprinted, Seaboard Air Line, Atlantic Coast Line, NC&St. L, and the L&N. The quality of the reprinted photos I am told made Prince livid and he forbid any others from being done, and yes, the reprinted photos were poor, but I also suspect that the available originals weren't that good either. At the time, the NC&St. L was THE most expensive one and by far, and seldom seen, maybe even less often actual sales taking place. It was a $350-$400 item.

Post reprinted, they all have settled down to around the $40-$60 plus or minus a little area. The other RR's still retain serious interest for the researcher, those of the N&W, RF&P, A&WP, New Georgia, Southern, and the original Norfolk Southern being the most elusive of the bunch. The N&W and RF&P seem to still garner somewhere in the $75-$100 region regularly, maybe a little more, the NS bringing $150 or so if and when you can find them. The Southern one seems to bring $50 plus or minus a little here and there and is among if not THE most popular of the bunch.

Without getting into copyright issues, should one wish to reprint the SR one, that is the marketplace you'll be competing into. I don't know how many original copies Prince made in his various printings of each of the above RR's but for the more popular titles I think it was plenty for the times. Today, my belief is there are sufficient quantity out there for current demand, my opinion, so into the hornet's nest, does one make the commitment of how many thousands of dollars up front money to sell ??????????????? how many of the reprint?

When the 4 reprinted titles were done nearly 20 years ago, as I recall, they were available at the time for $40 each.

What's the risk/reward ratio for a new reprint albeit one that wasn't done back then, and is there enough pent-up demand for another one? My opinion is probably not as the current supply out there fits most needs for the moment. How long that may continue is anyone's best guess, but my opinion is, likely not worth the investment at this time.

My 2 cents worth.

Bob Cohen


Kyle Shannon
 

I’m 29 years old and see many my age and some significantly younger passionate about Southern steam. I wouldn’t discount that the younger generations do not care.

Kyle




On Thursday, June 23, 2022, 8:50 PM, A&Y Dave in MD <dbott@...> wrote:

Agree. What’s needed is something more appealing to a new audience to instill interest in a new generation.

What would get a 30 year old interested in Southern Railway steam?

Dave

Sent from Dave Bott's iPhone

On Jun 23, 2022, at 8:37 PM, Bill Schafer <bill4501@...> wrote:


The photo reproduction was not the best in any of the original Prince books, and the reprints were abysmal. They were reprinted by the Indiana University Press, IIRC; the books didn’t do their reputation any favors. 

Considering that the demand for steam books seems to be waning, I’d think twice before reprinting any of the Prince books. If you shop around, you may find a used one reasonably priced. A year or two ago I noticed that the ACL book was missing from my set, so instead of turning the house upside down looking for it, I just ordered another one on-line. I found one on Amazon, being sold by the Danbury Railway Museum for something like $15. It was surplus to their collection and the proceeds went to improving the museum (such as UV protection on all their windows). 

—Bill



On Jun 21, 2022, at 12:10, Cohen Bob via groups.io <orl96782@...> wrote:

Gordon and all:

The Prince books, all 10 or 11 of them covering the different railroads of the south that he documented are fantastic resources, even today, the SR included.

Maybe forgotten is that in the early 2000's, four of his titles were reprinted, Seaboard Air Line, Atlantic Coast Line, NC&St. L, and the L&N. The quality of the reprinted photos I am told made Prince livid and he forbid any others from being done, and yes, the reprinted photos were poor, but I also suspect that the available originals weren't that good either. At the time, the NC&St. L was THE most expensive one and by far, and seldom seen, maybe even less often actual sales taking place. It was a $350-$400 item.

Post reprinted, they all have settled down to around the $40-$60 plus or minus a little area. The other RR's still retain serious interest for the researcher, those of the N&W, RF&P, A&WP, New Georgia, Southern, and the original Norfolk Southern being the most elusive of the bunch. The N&W and RF&P seem to still garner somewhere in the $75-$100 region regularly, maybe a little more, the NS bringing $150 or so if and when you can find them. The Southern one seems to bring $50 plus or minus a little here and there and is among if not THE most popular of the bunch.

Without getting into copyright issues, should one wish to reprint the SR one, that is the marketplace you'll be competing into. I don't know how many original copies Prince made in his various printings of each of the above RR's but for the more popular titles I think it was plenty for the times. Today, my belief is there are sufficient quantity out there for current demand, my opinion, so into the hornet's nest, does one make the commitment of how many thousands of dollars up front money to sell ??????????????? how many of the reprint?

When the 4 reprinted titles were done nearly 20 years ago, as I recall, they were available at the time for $40 each.

What's the risk/reward ratio for a new reprint albeit one that wasn't done back then, and is there enough pent-up demand for another one? My opinion is probably not as the current supply out there fits most needs for the moment. How long that may continue is anyone's best guess, but my opinion is, likely not worth the investment at this time.

My 2 cents worth.

Bob Cohen


Bill Schafer
 

I guess I mean that if a new book on Southern steam is to succeed, it shouldn’t be a clone of the Prince books. It fwill have to have better photo reproduction, be more anecdotal/less analytical, and be “sexier” than the dry-as-dust Prince books. The more time goes on, the more good stuff comes out of the woodwork, and it would be a shame if it is not appreciated. For example, this is the cover of the 2022-2 TIES, which is at the printer now. I don’t know about you, but I think this cover photo is stunning (and you should see the stuff inside). 

—Bill


On Jun 23, 2022, at 20:59, C J Wyatt <cjwyatt@...> wrote:

Bill, you scored with the ACL book.

I agree that the trends and economics argue against a reprint / revised edition of the Southern Railway book. But does that also mean that any new book on Southern steam, other than a picture book, is doomed?

Jack

On Thursday, June 23, 2022, 08:38:08 PM EDT, Bill Schafer <bill4501@...> wrote:


The photo reproduction was not the best in any of the original Prince books, and the reprints were abysmal. They were reprinted by the Indiana University Press, IIRC; the books didn’t do their reputation any favors. 

Considering that the demand for steam books seems to be waning, I’d think twice before reprinting any of the Prince books. If you shop around, you may find a used one reasonably priced. A year or two ago I noticed that the ACL book was missing from my set, so instead of turning the house upside down looking for it, I just ordered another one on-line. I found one on Amazon, being sold by the Danbury Railway Museum for something like $15. It was surplus to their collection and the proceeds went to improving the museum (such as UV protection on all their windows). 

—Bill



On Jun 21, 2022, at 12:10, Cohen Bob via groups.io <orl96782@...> wrote:

Gordon and all:

The Prince books, all 10 or 11 of them covering the different railroads of the south that he documented are fantastic resources, even today, the SR included.

Maybe forgotten is that in the early 2000's, four of his titles were reprinted, Seaboard Air Line, Atlantic Coast Line, NC&St. L, and the L&N. The quality of the reprinted photos I am told made Prince livid and he forbid any others from being done, and yes, the reprinted photos were poor, but I also suspect that the available originals weren't that good either. At the time, the NC&St. L was THE most expensive one and by far, and seldom seen, maybe even less often actual sales taking place. It was a $350-$400 item.

Post reprinted, they all have settled down to around the $40-$60 plus or minus a little area. The other RR's still retain serious interest for the researcher, those of the N&W, RF&P, A&WP, New Georgia, Southern, and the original Norfolk Southern being the most elusive of the bunch. The N&W and RF&P seem to still garner somewhere in the $75-$100 region regularly, maybe a little more, the NS bringing $150 or so if and when you can find them. The Southern one seems to bring $50 plus or minus a little here and there and is among if not THE most popular of the bunch.

Without getting into copyright issues, should one wish to reprint the SR one, that is the marketplace you'll be competing into. I don't know how many original copies Prince made in his various printings of each of the above RR's but for the more popular titles I think it was plenty for the times. Today, my belief is there are sufficient quantity out there for current demand, my opinion, so into the hornet's nest, does one make the commitment of how many thousands of dollars up front money to sell ??????????????? how many of the reprint?

When the 4 reprinted titles were done nearly 20 years ago, as I recall, they were available at the time for $40 each.

What's the risk/reward ratio for a new reprint albeit one that wasn't done back then, and is there enough pent-up demand for another one? My opinion is probably not as the current supply out there fits most needs for the moment. How long that may continue is anyone's best guess, but my opinion is, likely not worth the investment at this time.

My 2 cents worth.

Bob Cohen



A&Y Dave in MD
 

Agree they care, but how to direct that passion?  I’m NOT talking a video game. I respect the generations more than that. But is a printed book the best way to fuel interest?

Sent from Dave Bott's iPhone

On Jun 23, 2022, at 9:05 PM, Kyle Shannon via groups.io <trainsr6900@...> wrote:

 I’m 29 years old and see many my age and some significantly younger passionate about Southern steam. I wouldn’t discount that the younger generations do not care.

Kyle




On Thursday, June 23, 2022, 8:50 PM, A&Y Dave in MD <dbott@...> wrote:

Agree. What’s needed is something more appealing to a new audience to instill interest in a new generation.

What would get a 30 year old interested in Southern Railway steam?

Dave

Sent from Dave Bott's iPhone

On Jun 23, 2022, at 8:37 PM, Bill Schafer <bill4501@...> wrote:


The photo reproduction was not the best in any of the original Prince books, and the reprints were abysmal. They were reprinted by the Indiana University Press, IIRC; the books didn’t do their reputation any favors. 

Considering that the demand for steam books seems to be waning, I’d think twice before reprinting any of the Prince books. If you shop around, you may find a used one reasonably priced. A year or two ago I noticed that the ACL book was missing from my set, so instead of turning the house upside down looking for it, I just ordered another one on-line. I found one on Amazon, being sold by the Danbury Railway Museum for something like $15. It was surplus to their collection and the proceeds went to improving the museum (such as UV protection on all their windows). 

—Bill



On Jun 21, 2022, at 12:10, Cohen Bob via groups.io <orl96782@...> wrote:

Gordon and all:

The Prince books, all 10 or 11 of them covering the different railroads of the south that he documented are fantastic resources, even today, the SR included.

Maybe forgotten is that in the early 2000's, four of his titles were reprinted, Seaboard Air Line, Atlantic Coast Line, NC&St. L, and the L&N. The quality of the reprinted photos I am told made Prince livid and he forbid any others from being done, and yes, the reprinted photos were poor, but I also suspect that the available originals weren't that good either. At the time, the NC&St. L was THE most expensive one and by far, and seldom seen, maybe even less often actual sales taking place. It was a $350-$400 item.

Post reprinted, they all have settled down to around the $40-$60 plus or minus a little area. The other RR's still retain serious interest for the researcher, those of the N&W, RF&P, A&WP, New Georgia, Southern, and the original Norfolk Southern being the most elusive of the bunch. The N&W and RF&P seem to still garner somewhere in the $75-$100 region regularly, maybe a little more, the NS bringing $150 or so if and when you can find them. The Southern one seems to bring $50 plus or minus a little here and there and is among if not THE most popular of the bunch.

Without getting into copyright issues, should one wish to reprint the SR one, that is the marketplace you'll be competing into. I don't know how many original copies Prince made in his various printings of each of the above RR's but for the more popular titles I think it was plenty for the times. Today, my belief is there are sufficient quantity out there for current demand, my opinion, so into the hornet's nest, does one make the commitment of how many thousands of dollars up front money to sell ??????????????? how many of the reprint?

When the 4 reprinted titles were done nearly 20 years ago, as I recall, they were available at the time for $40 each.

What's the risk/reward ratio for a new reprint albeit one that wasn't done back then, and is there enough pent-up demand for another one? My opinion is probably not as the current supply out there fits most needs for the moment. How long that may continue is anyone's best guess, but my opinion is, likely not worth the investment at this time.

My 2 cents worth.

Bob Cohen


Brian A. Long
 

Hello All:

I am a new member here (I joined in April), and this is my first post here, but I do think I can make a response to Dave's and Jack's questions. Being 31, perhaps I can contribute here.

Perhaps it would be a good addition to the historical record to produce a book on a specific topic, but with a section of that book covering steam. For example, one of the gaps I see in the literature on the Southern is a book about the history of Southern passenger service, within which could be a chapter on passenger steam. 

I do know of two color books on the subject of Southern passenger trains (Southern Railway Through Passenger Service in Color by Stout and Southern Railway Varnish by Ward), but as the focus is on color photos this largely leaves out much of the steam era.

Brian A. Long


George Eichelberger
 

Kyle knows what he is talking about….if you ride behind 4501 at TVRM, chances are he is the Engineer.

Ike
'

On Jun 23, 2022, at 9:05 PM, Kyle Shannon via groups.io <trainsr6900@...> wrote:

I’m 29 years old and see many my age and some significantly younger passionate about Southern steam. I wouldn’t discount that the younger generations do not care.

Kyle




On Thursday, June 23, 2022, 8:50 PM, A&Y Dave in MD <dbott@...> wrote:

Agree. What’s needed is something more appealing to a new audience to instill interest in a new generation.

What would get a 30 year old interested in Southern Railway steam?

Dave

Sent from Dave Bott's iPhone

On Jun 23, 2022, at 8:37 PM, Bill Schafer <bill4501@...> wrote:


The photo reproduction was not the best in any of the original Prince books, and the reprints were abysmal. They were reprinted by the Indiana University Press, IIRC; the books didn’t do their reputation any favors. 

Considering that the demand for steam books seems to be waning, I’d think twice before reprinting any of the Prince books. If you shop around, you may find a used one reasonably priced. A year or two ago I noticed that the ACL book was missing from my set, so instead of turning the house upside down looking for it, I just ordered another one on-line. I found one on Amazon, being sold by the Danbury Railway Museum for something like $15. It was surplus to their collection and the proceeds went to improving the museum (such as UV protection on all their windows). 

—Bill



On Jun 21, 2022, at 12:10, Cohen Bob via groups.io <orl96782@...> wrote:

Gordon and all:

The Prince books, all 10 or 11 of them covering the different railroads of the south that he documented are fantastic resources, even today, the SR included.

Maybe forgotten is that in the early 2000's, four of his titles were reprinted, Seaboard Air Line, Atlantic Coast Line, NC&St. L, and the L&N. The quality of the reprinted photos I am told made Prince livid and he forbid any others from being done, and yes, the reprinted photos were poor, but I also suspect that the available originals weren't that good either. At the time, the NC&St. L was THE most expensive one and by far, and seldom seen, maybe even less often actual sales taking place. It was a $350-$400 item.

Post reprinted, they all have settled down to around the $40-$60 plus or minus a little area. The other RR's still retain serious interest for the researcher, those of the N&W, RF&P, A&WP, New Georgia, Southern, and the original Norfolk Southern being the most elusive of the bunch. The N&W and RF&P seem to still garner somewhere in the $75-$100 region regularly, maybe a little more, the NS bringing $150 or so if and when you can find them. The Southern one seems to bring $50 plus or minus a little here and there and is among if not THE most popular of the bunch.

Without getting into copyright issues, should one wish to reprint the SR one, that is the marketplace you'll be competing into. I don't know how many original copies Prince made in his various printings of each of the above RR's but for the more popular titles I think it was plenty for the times. Today, my belief is there are sufficient quantity out there for current demand, my opinion, so into the hornet's nest, does one make the commitment of how many thousands of dollars up front money to sell ??????????????? how many of the reprint?

When the 4 reprinted titles were done nearly 20 years ago, as I recall, they were available at the time for $40 each.

What's the risk/reward ratio for a new reprint albeit one that wasn't done back then, and is there enough pent-up demand for another one? My opinion is probably not as the current supply out there fits most needs for the moment. How long that may continue is anyone's best guess, but my opinion is, likely not worth the investment at this time.

My 2 cents worth.

Bob Cohen



Brian A. Long
 

Hello All:
 
I am a new member here (I joined in April), and this is my first post here, but I do think I can make a response to Dave's and Jack's questions. Being 31, perhaps I can contribute here.
 
Perhaps it would be a good addition to the historical record to produce a book on a specific topic, but with a section of that book covering steam. For example, one of the gaps I see in the literature on the Southern is a book about the history of Southern passenger service, within which could be a chapter on passenger steam. 
 
I do know of two color books on the subject of Southern passenger trains (Southern Railway Through Passenger Service in Color by Stout and Southern Railway Varnish by Ward), but as the focus is on color photos this largely leaves out much of the steam era.

Brian


Will Kesler
 

Brian, I agree. Something that would catch peoples eye is seeing a nice clear image of a green passenger locomotive in the sunlight. Not many books have enough pictures of that in them which is why the steam section in the Southern Railway in color books have more diesel than steam. I personally would love to see color steam photographs as that is one of the things I love most about southern, whenever you actually see a picture of one in color. Like I was saying I think it would benefit to have a book on steam in color or even just a book on steam. 

Will


Will Kesler
 

Take it from me, I’m 14 and am as passionate as can be for Southern Steam, that’s basically the only steam I really get excited for, all I really want to look at if I were to find a photo of an engine would be a color photograph of maybe a Ts-1 or a Ps-4. I think if the book was flashy and colorful it would draw some attention to younger viewers. Imagine a nice green and yellow book with Southern colors all over it, I think that’d sell well.


Bill Schafer
 

Everyone would love to see more Southern steam in color. Problem is, Southern dieselized in the early-1950s, and steam was gone before many people got a chance to photograph it. Not so with the N&W, which dieselized in 1960, when steam was rare and everyone was chasing the last strongholds. Another complication is that color film was very slow and very expensive in the 1940s and early 1950s, so what photos you see of late SOU steam are mostly black and white. A third factor is there weren’t many railfans in the South compared to other parts of the country, which explains why there are an inordinate number of images from Southern’s fringes (e.g., Washington, Cincinnati, St. Louis) but not as many from the heart of Southern country. 

I think there are several threads here of what would constitute a popular book of Southern Railway steam: 

* A broader treatment of Southern steam from 1830 to 1953, including background on development, philosophy, etc.
* A description of SOU steam in the context of passenger or freight service 
* An all-color picture book of regular service Southern Railway steam. 

IMHO, this last one would be the easiest to produce and perhaps the most popular, assuming 150-200 good color original images could be found. 

—Bill

On Jun 23, 2022, at 22:22, Will Kesler <williamkesler354@...> wrote:

Take it from me, I’m 14 and am as passionate as can be for Southern Steam, that’s basically the only steam I really get excited for, all I really want to look at if I were to find a photo of an engine would be a color photograph of maybe a Ts-1 or a Ps-4. I think if the book was flashy and colorful it would draw some attention to younger viewers. Imagine a nice green and yellow book with Southern colors all over it, I think that’d sell well.


George Eichelberger
 

There are 3,661 items in the SRHA digital archives “steam” photo directory, maybe 150 of those are documents or photographers’ notes on the back of photo prints. Of the 3,500 (MoL) photos, if we do not count the color photos from the Southern fan trip era. I would estimate the percentage of color images at between 1 and 2% with some number of those unacceptable for any kind of publication.

So…may I suggest we don’t presume to think an all-color book of Southern steam photos is possible? Between the color photos that do exist (ignore ones that have been manually colored) and various stencil and paint drawings, and the many superb B&W steam photos (“roster” and in train), the material exists for a new book. BUT….books do not write themselves. Saying “I want” is one thing but who will say “I will” is the question.

I suggest that we produce a special issue of TIES Magazine that incorporates all of the Ed King articles on Southern steam with added photos (and additional types of Southern steam locomotives?) and publish it as as “TRAINS” magazine (Kalmbach publishing) does quite often. It could be self published or done through Kalmbach, White River or whoever is interested.)

Ike

PS The Internet and Internet groups are great for passing ideas and information around but the cash, time and effort investment and “hands on” work needs to be done by someone. If we are talking about just cash, has everyone donated to their favorite railroad historical society, library or museum (railroad or otherwise)?



On Jun 23, 2022, at 11:12 PM, Bill Schafer <bill4501@...> wrote:

Everyone would love to see more Southern steam in color. Problem is, Southern dieselized in the early-1950s, and steam was gone before many people got a chance to photograph it. Not so with the N&W, which dieselized in 1960, when steam was rare and everyone was chasing the last strongholds. Another complication is that color film was very slow and very expensive in the 1940s and early 1950s, so what photos you see of late SOU steam are mostly black and white. A third factor is there weren’t many railfans in the South compared to other parts of the country, which explains why there are an inordinate number of images from Southern’s fringes (e.g., Washington, Cincinnati, St. Louis) but not as many from the heart of Southern country. 

I think there are several threads here of what would constitute a popular book of Southern Railway steam: 

* A broader treatment of Southern steam from 1830 to 1953, including background on development, philosophy, etc.
* A description of SOU steam in the context of passenger or freight service 
* An all-color picture book of regular service Southern Railway steam. 

IMHO, this last one would be the easiest to produce and perhaps the most popular, assuming 150-200 good color original images could be found. 

—Bill

On Jun 23, 2022, at 22:22, Will Kesler <williamkesler354@...> wrote:

Take it from me, I’m 14 and am as passionate as can be for Southern Steam, that’s basically the only steam I really get excited for, all I really want to look at if I were to find a photo of an engine would be a color photograph of maybe a Ts-1 or a Ps-4. I think if the book was flashy and colorful it would draw some attention to younger viewers. Imagine a nice green and yellow book with Southern colors all over it, I think that’d sell well.



Michael Roderick
 

Gentlemen:

 

While I am in my 50’s and model the Murphy Branch like Gordon does. I love steam and diesel, but I prefer steam over the diesel because of what representative in the 30’s. Yes I have a good collection of trains an in the 80’s but trying to find the right stuff for the 30’s of the Southern and the Books that talk about the Southern is just as important it’s history. We need to tell it correctly and this has been one of the hardest parts that I have been trying to do living hear in Indiana about my beloved Murphy Branch which I grew up with in my high school years in Bryson City, NC from 83-87. I have lived in and around the Southern from Raleigh, NC to Greenville, SC so I know the major lines and yes I have been to Spencer when I was 10 years old. Having a new book redone of Prince would be great a new generation of Southern Railroad Fans.

 

Mike Roderick

Modeling the Murphy Branch

Of the Southern Railroad

 

From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io> On Behalf Of Will Kesler
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2022 22:23
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Southern Railway Prince book reprints - takers??

 

Take it from me, I’m 14 and am as passionate as can be for Southern Steam, that’s basically the only steam I really get excited for, all I really want to look at if I were to find a photo of an engine would be a color photograph of maybe a Ts-1 or a Ps-4. I think if the book was flashy and colorful it would draw some attention to younger viewers. Imagine a nice green and yellow book with Southern colors all over it, I think that’d sell well.


John Stewart
 

Good morning,

I would suggest that the idea of a new book is only one of several options to appeal to enthusiasts of all ages.

Looking forward, why not consider an electronic reference on line? Consider, for example, that this very conversation is taking place online, rather than in print.

There are many examples of online references, both free and subscription or annual fee basis.

One example that comes to mind is steamlocomotives.com - a free reference. One good thing is that it may be updated if users send worthwhile material to the owner for consideration

I bought my copy of Prince’s “Southern” nearly 30 years ago and am proud to have it. But it is a static reference in a digital world.

I enjoy doing historical research on rail and industrial topics. If I had to rely on printed material I would be severely limited as to what I’ve found, learned, and in a small way, shared with others.

There are many things in life that must be “real and in person” - there’s no such thing as good digital Bar-B-Q and a cold drink”

But information and sharing knowledge— the process of learning new things— may, it seems to me, best be shared in real time. A very efficient way to do this is the internet.

John Stewart
Birmingham, AL
www.bhamrails.info


Will Kesler
 

Maybe if a photograph book would be done they could be black and white photos that are nice in detail and have good descriptions. And there could be a section in the book dedicated just for color, seeing a good detailed image is nice enough so that would still do good anyways.


Michael Roderick
 

John:

I agree with you with about the digital sharing of information that is the one problem I have about being up here in Indiana and trying to do research on the Murphy Branch and can't get to Chattanooga to look in the archive's at all I have to rely on other member to get the information or go through tons of database's online to find just that one needle in the haystack to start linking the pieces together.

Mike Roderick
Modeling the Murphy Branch
Of the Southern Railroad

-----Original Message-----
From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io> On Behalf Of John Stewart
Sent: Friday, June 24, 2022 09:37
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Southern Railway Prince book reprints - takers??

Good morning,

I would suggest that the idea of a new book is only one of several options to appeal to enthusiasts of all ages.

Looking forward, why not consider an electronic reference on line? Consider, for example, that this very conversation is taking place online, rather than in print.

There are many examples of online references, both free and subscription or annual fee basis.

One example that comes to mind is steamlocomotives.com - a free reference. One good thing is that it may be updated if users send worthwhile material to the owner for consideration

I bought my copy of Prince’s “Southern” nearly 30 years ago and am proud to have it. But it is a static reference in a digital world.

I enjoy doing historical research on rail and industrial topics. If I had to rely on printed material I would be severely limited as to what I’ve found, learned, and in a small way, shared with others.

There are many things in life that must be “real and in person” - there’s no such thing as good digital Bar-B-Q and a cold drink”

But information and sharing knowledge— the process of learning new things— may, it seems to me, best be shared in real time. A very efficient way to do this is the internet.

John Stewart
Birmingham, AL
www.bhamrails.info


George Eichelberger
 

OK…. “can’t get to Chattanooga”……from Indiana!

The Internet is great but I have had people that live in Middle GA and TN tell me “they can’t get to Chattanooga, would I just send them everything in the archives on their question”?

I recognize that a favorite railroad location, museum or archives may be farther away than someone’s PC and keyboard but how is it some folks have made the effort to go places, do research, take photos and make databases (?). Or,…. support that work with more than a Google search?

Ike

On Jun 24, 2022, at 9:47 AM, Michael Roderick <mdrghost@...> wrote:

John:

I agree with you with about the digital sharing of information that is the one problem I have about being up here in Indiana and trying to do research on the Murphy Branch and can't get to Chattanooga to look in the archive's at all I have to rely on other member to get the information or go through tons of database's online to find just that one needle in the haystack to start linking the pieces together.

Mike Roderick
Modeling the Murphy Branch
Of the Southern Railroad

-----Original Message-----
From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io> On Behalf Of John Stewart
Sent: Friday, June 24, 2022 09:37
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Southern Railway Prince book reprints - takers??

Good morning,

I would suggest that the idea of a new book is only one of several options to appeal to enthusiasts of all ages.

Looking forward, why not consider an electronic reference on line? Consider, for example, that this very conversation is taking place online, rather than in print.

There are many examples of online references, both free and subscription or annual fee basis.

One example that comes to mind is steamlocomotives.com - a free reference. One good thing is that it may be updated if users send worthwhile material to the owner for consideration

I bought my copy of Prince’s “Southern” nearly 30 years ago and am proud to have it. But it is a static reference in a digital world.

I enjoy doing historical research on rail and industrial topics. If I had to rely on printed material I would be severely limited as to what I’ve found, learned, and in a small way, shared with others.

There are many things in life that must be “real and in person” - there’s no such thing as good digital Bar-B-Q and a cold drink”

But information and sharing knowledge— the process of learning new things— may, it seems to me, best be shared in real time. A very efficient way to do this is the internet.

John Stewart
Birmingham, AL
www.bhamrails.info


Michael Roderick
 

Ike:

True, But you have helped me with a bunch of stuff in the past and steered me in the right direction while going on this hunt for information, but it brings me back to the real question that while we a spread out wee need to be able to work together as a group on this type of project weather we are in Chattanooga or Indiana we all have some skin in the game because we all love this railroad and want to preserve it's history for other's read and understand the good, bad, and ugly of what it was all about and yes their was some things that was done that the railroad was not proud of doing back then but that was what was called business of railroading.

Mike Roderick
Modeling the Murphy Branch
Of the Southern Railroad

-----Original Message-----
From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io> On Behalf Of George Eichelberger
Sent: Friday, June 24, 2022 10:23
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Southern Railway Prince book reprints - takers??

OK…. “can’t get to Chattanooga”……from Indiana!

The Internet is great but I have had people that live in Middle GA and TN tell me “they can’t get to Chattanooga, would I just send them everything in the archives on their question”?

I recognize that a favorite railroad location, museum or archives may be farther away than someone’s PC and keyboard but how is it some folks have made the effort to go places, do research, take photos and make databases (?). Or,…. support that work with more than a Google search?

Ike



On Jun 24, 2022, at 9:47 AM, Michael Roderick <mdrghost@...> wrote:

John:

I agree with you with about the digital sharing of information that is the one problem I have about being up here in Indiana and trying to do research on the Murphy Branch and can't get to Chattanooga to look in the archive's at all I have to rely on other member to get the information or go through tons of database's online to find just that one needle in the haystack to start linking the pieces together.

Mike Roderick
Modeling the Murphy Branch
Of the Southern Railroad

-----Original Message-----
From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io> On Behalf Of John Stewart
Sent: Friday, June 24, 2022 09:37
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Southern Railway Prince book reprints - takers??

Good morning,

I would suggest that the idea of a new book is only one of several options to appeal to enthusiasts of all ages.

Looking forward, why not consider an electronic reference on line? Consider, for example, that this very conversation is taking place online, rather than in print.

There are many examples of online references, both free and subscription or annual fee basis.

One example that comes to mind is steamlocomotives.com - a free reference. One good thing is that it may be updated if users send worthwhile material to the owner for consideration

I bought my copy of Prince’s “Southern” nearly 30 years ago and am proud to have it. But it is a static reference in a digital world.

I enjoy doing historical research on rail and industrial topics. If I had to rely on printed material I would be severely limited as to what I’ve found, learned, and in a small way, shared with others.

There are many things in life that must be “real and in person” - there’s no such thing as good digital Bar-B-Q and a cold drink”

But information and sharing knowledge— the process of learning new things— may, it seems to me, best be shared in real time. A very efficient way to do this is the internet.

John Stewart
Birmingham, AL
www.bhamrails.info