Topics

moderated Southern weed spraying trains in 1960s

Alexander Smart
 

Hello 

I model Southern outdoors in 1/29 scale and indoors in HO, in Oban, Scotland.
I need more information, photos and possibly diagrams of the consist of these trains.
I checked Ralph Ward’s Southern Railway Pictorial which shows such a train at Asheville in July 1973: CNO&TP F7 6119, caboose X636, UTLX tank car 39918 and 2 special sprayer cars including 991495.
I have in 1/29 an F3, caboose and tank car but need to adapt and detail a couple of flatcars to the sprayer car specifics. 
This would make a very unusual and striking extra on my garden railroad!
If anyone has more information, particularly photos or diagrams of these cars, I would be very grateful.

Kind regards

Sandy Smart

Alexander Smart
 




Begin forwarded message:

From: "agfsmart via Groups.Io" <agfsmart@...>
Date: 27 November 2019 at 23:48:40 GMT
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io
Subject: [SouthernRailway] Southern weed spraying trains in 1960s
Reply-To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io

Hello 

I model Southern outdoors in 1/29 scale and indoors in HO, in Oban, Scotland.
I need more information, photos and possibly diagrams of the consist of these trains.
I checked Ralph Ward’s Southern Railway Pictorial which shows such a train at Asheville in July 1973: CNO&TP F7 6119, caboose X636, UTLX tank car 39918 and 2 special sprayer cars including 991495.
I have in 1/29 an F3, caboose and tank car but need to adapt and detail a couple of flatcars to the sprayer car specifics. 
This would make a very unusual and striking extra on my garden railroad!
If anyone has more information, particularly photos or diagrams of these cars, I would be very grateful.

Kind regards

Sandy Smart

George Eichelberger
 

The January 23, 1969 Mow renumbering plan shows the following old and new road numbers for the “weed killer flat cars” in service at that time. 

991491
weed killer flat car
to be renumbered from OSM-1
991492
weed killer flat car
to be renumbered from 116820
991495
weed killer flat car
to be renumbered from OSM-3
991496
weed killer flat car
to be renumbered from 117929
991497
weed killer flat car
to be renumbered from OSM-4
991498
weed killer flat car
to be renumbered from 117534

From photos, we can see that Sou 991497 was paired with Sou 991498, …497 being the lead car doing the spraying (an engine pushed the outfit) and …498 having a pump to bring the spray mix out of specially equipped tank cars and pass it to 991497. That appears to agree with the renumbering showing 991497 renumbered from OSM-4 (a modified car) and 991498 renumbered from 117534, a standard flat car.

There is no documentation of what “OSM” refers to but it may be “oil spraying machine”. In the 50s and 60s, the Southern sprayed oil on bridges thinking it retarded rust. Other than maybe accumulating dirt that attracted more water, the railroad stopped using it.

Shown only as “T-413” on captions from the SRHA Ben Roberts collection, the two attached photos are of a 1920s era weed burner. (The “T” prefix does not tell us much, that refers to a “tool” car that can be about anything.)

Ike

PS The January SRHA archives work session is this coming weekend. If the weather permits, Norfolk Southern office car OC-8 (Sou 5) will be set on its trucks from its highway mover (along Holtzsclaw Ave beside NS) and moved to the East Chattanooga shop on Wednesday. (It MAY be enroute on the Interstates from Madison, Ill via Nashville now.)







On Jan 9, 2020, at 3:44 PM, Alexander Smart <agfsmart@...> wrote:




Begin forwarded message:

From: "agfsmart via Groups.Io" <agfsmart@...>
Date: 27 November 2019 at 23:48:40 GMT
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io
Subject: [SouthernRailway] Southern weed spraying trains in 1960s
Reply-To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io

Hello 

I model Southern outdoors in 1/29 scale and indoors in HO, in Oban, Scotland.
I need more information, photos and possibly diagrams of the consist of these trains.
I checked Ralph Ward’s Southern Railway Pictorial which shows such a train at Asheville in July 1973: CNO&TP F7 6119, caboose X636, UTLX tank car 39918 and 2 special sprayer cars including 991495.
I have in 1/29 an F3, caboose and tank car but need to adapt and detail a couple of flatcars to the sprayer car specifics. 
This would make a very unusual and striking extra on my garden railroad!
If anyone has more information, particularly photos or diagrams of these cars, I would be very grateful.

Kind regards

Sandy Smart

Bill Schafer
 

A few clarifications for Sandy Smart:

* OSM does indeed stand for “Oil Spray Machine” (or “spraying”). As Ike says below, the alpha-numeric numbers were converted to 99XXXX-series MofW numbers in 1969.
* The pictures included with Ike’s post do NOT depict the OSM cars. The OSMs were creatures of the diesel era.
* Bridges were NOT sprayed with oil preservative; it was a thick grease that was applied with some mechanism other than the OSM outfit - a hand-held hose, as I recall. It was really messy. The grease was intended to retard deterioration of the metal but it could hide cracks in the bridge structure, so use of it was discontinued.
* Below is a picture of the OSM machine I think you had in mind to model for your outdoor railroad. This is the best picture I could find; maybe some others can add better images.

—Bill



On Jan 13, 2020, at 9:11 AM, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:

The January 23, 1969 Mow renumbering plan shows the following old and new road numbers for the “weed killer flat cars” in service at that time. 

991491
weed killer flat car
to be renumbered from OSM-1
991492
weed killer flat car
to be renumbered from 116820
991495
weed killer flat car
to be renumbered from OSM-3
991496
weed killer flat car
to be renumbered from 117929
991497
weed killer flat car
to be renumbered from OSM-4
991498
weed killer flat car
to be renumbered from 117534

From photos, we can see that Sou 991497 was paired with Sou 991498, …497 being the lead car doing the spraying (an engine pushed the outfit) and …498 having a pump to bring the spray mix out of specially equipped tank cars and pass it to 991497. That appears to agree with the renumbering showing 991497 renumbered from OSM-4 (a modified car) and 991498 renumbered from 117534, a standard flat car.

There is no documentation of what “OSM” refers to but it may be “oil spraying machine”. In the 50s and 60s, the Southern sprayed oil on bridges thinking it retarded rust. Other than maybe accumulating dirt that attracted more water, the railroad stopped using it.

Shown only as “T-413” on captions from the SRHA Ben Roberts collection, the two attached photos are of a 1920s era weed burner. (The “T” prefix does not tell us much, that refers to a “tool” car that can be about anything.)

Ike

PS The January SRHA archives work session is this coming weekend. If the weather permits, Norfolk Southern office car OC-8 (Sou 5) will be set on its trucks from its highway mover (along Holtzsclaw Ave beside NS) and moved to the East Chattanooga shop on Wednesday. (It MAY be enroute on the Interstates from Madison, Ill via Nashville now.)

<Sou T-413 on weed burner train circa 1920s_2.jpeg>

<Sou T-413 on weed burner train circa 1920s_5.jpeg>





On Jan 9, 2020, at 3:44 PM, Alexander Smart <agfsmart@...> wrote:




Begin forwarded message:

From: "agfsmart via Groups.Io" <agfsmart@...>
Date: 27 November 2019 at 23:48:40 GMT
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io
Subject: [SouthernRailway] Southern weed spraying trains in 1960s
Reply-To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io

Hello 

I model Southern outdoors in 1/29 scale and indoors in HO, in Oban, Scotland.
I need more information, photos and possibly diagrams of the consist of these trains.
I checked Ralph Ward’s Southern Railway Pictorial which shows such a train at Asheville in July 1973: CNO&TP F7 6119, caboose X636, UTLX tank car 39918 and 2 special sprayer cars including 991495.
I have in 1/29 an F3, caboose and tank car but need to adapt and detail a couple of flatcars to the sprayer car specifics. 
This would make a very unusual and striking extra on my garden railroad!
If anyone has more information, particularly photos or diagrams of these cars, I would be very grateful.

Kind regards

Sandy Smart


Dave Queener
 

Wow, Ike. That 1920s era Weed Killer Flat Car appears to be one of the CNO&TP truss rod flats with the bizarre steel channel truck side frames. That is ancient, pre-WWI stuff!

Dave Q

On 1/13/2020 9:11 AM, George Eichelberger wrote:
The January 23, 1969 Mow renumbering plan shows the following old and new road numbers for the “weed killer flat cars” in service at that time. 

991491
weed killer flat car
to be renumbered from OSM-1
991492
weed killer flat car
to be renumbered from 116820
991495
weed killer flat car
to be renumbered from OSM-3
991496
weed killer flat car
to be renumbered from 117929
991497
weed killer flat car
to be renumbered from OSM-4
991498
weed killer flat car
to be renumbered from 117534

From photos, we can see that Sou 991497 was paired with Sou 991498, …497 being the lead car doing the spraying (an engine pushed the outfit) and …498 having a pump to bring the spray mix out of specially equipped tank cars and pass it to 991497. That appears to agree with the renumbering showing 991497 renumbered from OSM-4 (a modified car) and 991498 renumbered from 117534, a standard flat car.

There is no documentation of what “OSM” refers to but it may be “oil spraying machine”. In the 50s and 60s, the Southern sprayed oil on bridges thinking it retarded rust. Other than maybe accumulating dirt that attracted more water, the railroad stopped using it.

Shown only as “T-413” on captions from the SRHA Ben Roberts collection, the two attached photos are of a 1920s era weed burner. (The “T” prefix does not tell us much, that refers to a “tool” car that can be about anything.)

Ike

PS The January SRHA archives work session is this coming weekend. If the weather permits, Norfolk Southern office car OC-8 (Sou 5) will be set on its trucks from its highway mover (along Holtzsclaw Ave beside NS) and moved to the East Chattanooga shop on Wednesday. (It MAY be enroute on the Interstates from Madison, Ill via Nashville now.)







On Jan 9, 2020, at 3:44 PM, Alexander Smart <agfsmart@...> wrote:




Begin forwarded message:

From: "agfsmart via Groups.Io" <agfsmart@...>
Date: 27 November 2019 at 23:48:40 GMT
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io
Subject: [SouthernRailway] Southern weed spraying trains in 1960s
Reply-To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io

Hello 

I model Southern outdoors in 1/29 scale and indoors in HO, in Oban, Scotland.
I need more information, photos and possibly diagrams of the consist of these trains.
I checked Ralph Ward’s Southern Railway Pictorial which shows such a train at Asheville in July 1973: CNO&TP F7 6119, caboose X636, UTLX tank car 39918 and 2 special sprayer cars including 991495.
I have in 1/29 an F3, caboose and tank car but need to adapt and detail a couple of flatcars to the sprayer car specifics. 
This would make a very unusual and striking extra on my garden railroad!
If anyone has more information, particularly photos or diagrams of these cars, I would be very grateful.

Kind regards

Sandy Smart

-- 
Owner, Cumberland Model Engineering
(865) 333-5712  www.CumberlandModelEngineering.com

Pastor, St. Paul Presbyterian Church
(865) 209-5654  www.StPaulPres.com

George Eichelberger
 

Dave:

Here is another photo of T-413. WHAT are they burning in that tank?

The origin of T-413 may be in the ICC records in the archives if it survived past 1926 or so when the valuation study began.

Ike



On Jan 14, 2020, at 10:57 AM, Dave Queener <dave@...> wrote:

Wow, Ike. That 1920s era Weed Killer Flat Car appears to be one of the CNO&TP truss rod flats with the bizarre steel channel truck side frames. That is ancient, pre-WWI stuff!

Dave Q


Dave Queener
 

Hi Ike,

Neat pic.

Short answer: Something nasty!

Dave

On 1/14/2020 11:27 AM, George Eichelberger wrote:
Dave:

Here is another photo of T-413. WHAT are they burning in that tank?

The origin of T-413 may be in the ICC records in the archives if it survived past 1926 or so when the valuation study began.

Ike



On Jan 14, 2020, at 10:57 AM, Dave Queener <dave@...> wrote:

Wow, Ike. That 1920s era Weed Killer Flat Car appears to be one of the CNO&TP truss rod flats with the bizarre steel channel truck side frames. That is ancient, pre-WWI stuff!

Dave Q


-- 
Owner, Cumberland Model Engineering
(865) 333-5712  www.CumberlandModelEngineering.com

Pastor, St. Paul Presbyterian Church
(865) 209-5654  www.StPaulPres.com

C J Wyatt
 

Dave,

Good answer! I wonder if it was something thick and nasty which they had to heat up to get it to flow. Maybe they were burning some of the stuff itself to accomplish that goal.

Another question is what is in the tank on the other end?

Jack Wyatt 

On Tuesday, January 14, 2020, 12:25:46 PM EST, Dave Queener <dave@...> wrote:


Hi Ike,

Neat pic.

Short answer: Something nasty!

Dave

On 1/14/2020 11:27 AM, George Eichelberger wrote:
Dave:

Here is another photo of T-413. WHAT are they burning in that tank?

The origin of T-413 may be in the ICC records in the archives if it survived past 1926 or so when the valuation study began.

Ike



On Jan 14, 2020, at 10:57 AM, Dave Queener <dave@...> wrote:

Wow, Ike. That 1920s era Weed Killer Flat Car appears to be one of the CNO&TP truss rod flats with the bizarre steel channel truck side frames. That is ancient, pre-WWI stuff!

Dave Q


-- 
Owner, Cumberland Model Engineering
(865) 333-5712  www.CumberlandModelEngineering.com

Pastor, St. Paul Presbyterian Church
(865) 209-5654  www.StPaulPres.com

sgwarner88@...
 

Just a comment on the bridge greasing and the discontinuing.  In the late 70's, I went with Bernie Schwartz to a bridge that collapsed under a loaded Big Red coal train over the Big Warrior River on the NA.  It was a thru truss, and a hanger had broken.  So it was to be ultra sonic tested, but first all the grease had to be removed to allow the testing.  They found more cracked hangers (this led to replacing thru  truss bridges as much as possible), and the R&T Dept also recommended removing all grease from bridges, since it covered cracks and faults from the periodic inspection by B&B.  So rust and weathering is safer than uniform grease covering.....