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Locked SR Flat Car at TVRM

Dave Queener
 

Gentlemen,

There is an approximately 40' or 42' steel flat car at TVRM with fishbelly center and side sills riding on Vulcan trucks that are clearly marked as having been cast for or by the Southern. Assuming then that it is a Southern flat car, does anyone know what number series, class, or build date it might be a part of? Here's a few pics taken yesterday:

Thanks!

Dave Queener
TIM ANDREWS
 

Unfortunately when we got the car out of the parting lot in Irondale all previous paint markings were gone.  We will look more closely to see if the number is punched into the metal somewhere but I'm not optimistic.

Tim

On Friday, June 24, 2022, 10:31:10 AM EDT, Dave Queener <dave@...> wrote:


Gentlemen,

There is an approximately 40' or 42' steel flat car at TVRM with fishbelly center and side sills riding on Vulcan trucks that are clearly marked as having been cast for or by the Southern. Assuming then that it is a Southern flat car, does anyone know what number series, class, or build date it might be a part of? Here's a few pics taken yesterday:

Thanks!

Dave Queener
George Eichelberger
 

Dave:

Without a good broadside photo, I cannot compare it to the General Arrangement drawings SF-1023 (Sou 115000-115249 and 118000-118749), SF-11118 (Sou 116600-116849 & 118000-118749). Those drawings are so accurate, if there is even a small difference in rivet patterns we can tell which series it is from. (Note these drawings are for both flats or gons. Gondolas of the 1920s were sometimes simply wooden sides on flat cars. Over time, sides were removed from the gons so most finished out their service as flat cars.)

Unless TVRM can find a road number someplace on the car, it would be impossible to determine exactly what the car’s revenue or MoW road number was. Unless we know where the prior owner got the car, it is possible it came from one of the industries around Birmingham, ex Southern or something else with replacement Southern trucks. With so many SR cars scrapped in B’ham, trucks would have been easy to find.

Ike



Sou 117644 is still configured as a low-side gondola on the ACL at Bradenton, FL in 1953. It was one of five hundred built at Lenoir in 1928 under Southern Specification F-97.
N.C.Miller Jr. Photo Neg A486 Bradenton, FL 2-53
Collection of GP Eichelberger


On Jun 24, 2022, at 10:49 AM, TIM ANDREWS <andrewstim@...> wrote:

Unfortunately when we got the car out of the parting lot in Irondale all previous paint markings were gone.  We will look more closely to see if the number is punched into the metal somewhere but I'm not optimistic.

Tim

On Friday, June 24, 2022, 10:31:10 AM EDT, Dave Queener <dave@...> wrote:


Gentlemen,

There is an approximately 40' or 42' steel flat car at TVRM with fishbelly center and side sills riding on Vulcan trucks that are clearly marked as having been cast for or by the Southern. Assuming then that it is a Southern flat car, does anyone know what number series, class, or build date it might be a part of? Here's a few pics taken yesterday:

<June 2022 083 - Crop.jpg><June 2022 094 - Crop.jpg><June 2022 095 - Crop.jpg>

Thanks!

Dave Queener

<June 2022 083 - Crop.jpg><June 2022 094 - Crop.jpg><June 2022 095 - Crop.jpg>
George Eichelberger
 

PS Here’s a photo of Southern (gondola) 117644, caption was on previous email…

Note the flat car was a WrightTrak kit…. Same flat as under the transfer cab kit. A series of them would make a great Southern welded rail train.

Ike




Begin forwarded message:

From: GEORGE EICHELBERGER <geichelberger@...>
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] SR Flat Car at TVRM
Date: June 24, 2022 at 11:19:58 AM EDT

Dave:

Without a good broadside photo, I cannot compare it to the General Arrangement drawings SF-1023 (Sou 115000-115249 and 118000-118749), SF-11118 (Sou 116600-116849 & 118000-118749). Those drawings are so accurate, if there is even a small difference in rivet patterns we can tell which series it is from. (Note these drawings are for both flats or gons. Gondolas of the 1920s were sometimes simply wooden sides on flat cars. Over time, sides were removed from the gons so most finished out their service as flat cars.)

Unless TVRM can find a road number someplace on the car, it would be impossible to determine exactly what the car’s revenue or MoW road number was. Unless we know where the prior owner got the car, it is possible it came from one of the industries around Birmingham, ex Southern or something else with replacement Southern trucks. With so many SR cars scrapped in B’ham, trucks would have been easy to find.

Ike



Sou 117644 is still configured as a low-side gondola on the ACL at Bradenton, FL in 1953. It was one of five hundred built at Lenoir in 1928 under Southern Specification F-97.
N.C.Miller Jr. Photo Neg A486 Bradenton, FL 2-53
Collection of GP Eichelberger


On Jun 24, 2022, at 10:49 AM, TIM ANDREWS <andrewstim@...> wrote:

Unfortunately when we got the car out of the parting lot in Irondale all previous paint markings were gone.  We will look more closely to see if the number is punched into the metal somewhere but I'm not optimistic.

Tim

On Friday, June 24, 2022, 10:31:10 AM EDT, Dave Queener <dave@...> wrote:


Gentlemen,

There is an approximately 40' or 42' steel flat car at TVRM with fishbelly center and side sills riding on Vulcan trucks that are clearly marked as having been cast for or by the Southern. Assuming then that it is a Southern flat car, does anyone know what number series, class, or build date it might be a part of? Here's a few pics taken yesterday:

<June 2022 083 - Crop.jpg><June 2022 094 - Crop.jpg><June 2022 095 - Crop.jpg>

Thanks!

Dave Queener

<June 2022 083 - Crop.jpg><June 2022 094 - Crop.jpg><June 2022 095 - Crop.jpg>
Dave Queener
 

Tim, thanks for chiming in.

Ike, thanks for the very helpful pic and technical data.

My interest in the car, as you might already have guessed, is to draw it up in 3D CAD and then make a laser-cut styrene model in 1:20.3 scale. Of course my CAD work could be the basis for a model in any scale since I always drawing things in 1:1 and then scale the relevant parts down.

Yours,

Dave

On 6/24/2022 11:25 AM, George Eichelberger wrote:
PS Here’s a photo of Southern (gondola) 117644, caption was on previous email…

Note the flat car was a WrightTrak kit…. Same flat as under the transfer cab kit. A series of them would make a great Southern welded rail train.

Ike




Begin forwarded message:

From: GEORGE EICHELBERGER <geichelberger@...>
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] SR Flat Car at TVRM
Date: June 24, 2022 at 11:19:58 AM EDT

Dave:

Without a good broadside photo, I cannot compare it to the General Arrangement drawings SF-1023 (Sou 115000-115249 and 118000-118749), SF-11118 (Sou 116600-116849 & 118000-118749). Those drawings are so accurate, if there is even a small difference in rivet patterns we can tell which series it is from. (Note these drawings are for both flats or gons. Gondolas of the 1920s were sometimes simply wooden sides on flat cars. Over time, sides were removed from the gons so most finished out their service as flat cars.)

Unless TVRM can find a road number someplace on the car, it would be impossible to determine exactly what the car’s revenue or MoW road number was. Unless we know where the prior owner got the car, it is possible it came from one of the industries around Birmingham, ex Southern or something else with replacement Southern trucks. With so many SR cars scrapped in B’ham, trucks would have been easy to find.

Ike



Sou 117644 is still configured as a low-side gondola on the ACL at Bradenton, FL in 1953. It was one of five hundred built at Lenoir in 1928 under Southern Specification F-97.
N.C.Miller Jr. Photo Neg A486 Bradenton, FL 2-53
Collection of GP Eichelberger


On Jun 24, 2022, at 10:49 AM, TIM ANDREWS <andrewstim@...> wrote:

Unfortunately when we got the car out of the parting lot in Irondale all previous paint markings were gone.  We will look more closely to see if the number is punched into the metal somewhere but I'm not optimistic.

Tim

On Friday, June 24, 2022, 10:31:10 AM EDT, Dave Queener <dave@...> wrote:


Gentlemen,

There is an approximately 40' or 42' steel flat car at TVRM with fishbelly center and side sills riding on Vulcan trucks that are clearly marked as having been cast for or by the Southern. Assuming then that it is a Southern flat car, does anyone know what number series, class, or build date it might be a part of? Here's a few pics taken yesterday:

<June 2022 083 - Crop.jpg><June 2022 094 - Crop.jpg><June 2022 095 - Crop.jpg>

Thanks!

Dave Queener

<June 2022 083 - Crop.jpg><June 2022 094 - Crop.jpg><June 2022 095 - Crop.jpg>


-- 
Owner, Cumberland Model Engineering
www.CumberlandModelEngineering.com  (865) 209-5654

Virus-free. www.avg.com

Jason P
 

The paint scheme, deck and railing indicate it had previously been a stationary platform. I'm not sure exactly if this is the same car but it looks like the one that had been part of a viewing platform in Irondale AL. It was positioned on the south side of the tracks across from the main viewing platform. It was later moved to a shopping center called Grants Mill Station along with an ex-PRR E8, Southern coach 1076, Southern MoW baggage 90020, as well as a couple other items. The shopping center recently disposed of the railroad equipment and maybe TVRM picked up the flatcar. slapping on a period paint scheme and lettering would make the car useful for freight trains in flim shoots. Maybe that is their plan for it?

-Jason Parham

On 06/24/2022 9:31 AM Dave Queener <dave@...> wrote:


Gentlemen,

There is an approximately 40' or 42' steel flat car at TVRM with fishbelly center and side sills riding on Vulcan trucks that are clearly marked as having been cast for or by the Southern. Assuming then that it is a Southern flat car, does anyone know what number series, class, or build date it might be a part of? Here's a few pics taken yesterday:

Thanks!

Dave Queener
Jim King
 

The HO flat car, composite gon, and transfer cab were originally my kits.  They were sold to Wright Trak Models with the rest of my HO line many years ago.  Patterns for these 3 kits plus many others are now owned by Southbound Models (Greg King) in the Winston-Salem, NC area but I don’t know if Greg plans to reissue these.  I produced the flat and gon in S and O.

 

Jim King

http://smokymountainmodelworks.com/

 
George Eichelberger
 

Dave:

Note the retaining valve between the two rightmost stake pockets. That may tell us which series it is.

Are you going to make it to the next archives work session?

Ike


On Jun 24, 2022, at 11:30 AM, Dave Queener <dave@...> wrote:

Tim, thanks for chiming in.

Ike, thanks for the very helpful pic and technical data.

My interest in the car, as you might already have guessed, is to draw it up in 3D CAD and then make a laser-cut styrene model in 1:20.3 scale. Of course my CAD work could be the basis for a model in any scale since I always drawing things in 1:1 and then scale the relevant parts down.

Yours,

Dave

On 6/24/2022 11:25 AM, George Eichelberger wrote:
PS Here’s a photo of Southern (gondola) 117644, caption was on previous email…

Note the flat car was a WrightTrak kit…. Same flat as under the transfer cab kit. A series of them would make a great Southern welded rail train.

Ike


<Sou%20117644.jpeg>

Begin forwarded message:

From: GEORGE EICHELBERGER <geichelberger@...>
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] SR Flat Car at TVRM
Date: June 24, 2022 at 11:19:58 AM EDT

Dave:

Without a good broadside photo, I cannot compare it to the General Arrangement drawings SF-1023 (Sou 115000-115249 and 118000-118749), SF-11118 (Sou 116600-116849 & 118000-118749). Those drawings are so accurate, if there is even a small difference in rivet patterns we can tell which series it is from. (Note these drawings are for both flats or gons. Gondolas of the 1920s were sometimes simply wooden sides on flat cars. Over time, sides were removed from the gons so most finished out their service as flat cars.)

Unless TVRM can find a road number someplace on the car, it would be impossible to determine exactly what the car’s revenue or MoW road number was. Unless we know where the prior owner got the car, it is possible it came from one of the industries around Birmingham, ex Southern or something else with replacement Southern trucks. With so many SR cars scrapped in B’ham, trucks would have been easy to find.

Ike



Sou 117644 is still configured as a low-side gondola on the ACL at Bradenton, FL in 1953. It was one of five hundred built at Lenoir in 1928 under Southern Specification F-97.
N.C.Miller Jr. Photo Neg A486 Bradenton, FL 2-53
Collection of GP Eichelberger


On Jun 24, 2022, at 10:49 AM, TIM ANDREWS <andrewstim@...> wrote:

Unfortunately when we got the car out of the parting lot in Irondale all previous paint markings were gone.  We will look more closely to see if the number is punched into the metal somewhere but I'm not optimistic.

Tim

On Friday, June 24, 2022, 10:31:10 AM EDT, Dave Queener <dave@...> wrote:


Gentlemen,

There is an approximately 40' or 42' steel flat car at TVRM with fishbelly center and side sills riding on Vulcan trucks that are clearly marked as having been cast for or by the Southern. Assuming then that it is a Southern flat car, does anyone know what number series, class, or build date it might be a part of? Here's a few pics taken yesterday:

<June 2022 083 - Crop.jpg><June 2022 094 - Crop.jpg><June 2022 095 - Crop.jpg>

Thanks!

Dave Queener

<June 2022 083 - Crop.jpg><June 2022 094 - Crop.jpg><June 2022 095 - Crop.jpg>


-- 
Owner, Cumberland Model Engineering
www.CumberlandModelEngineering.com  (865) 209-5654

Virus-free. www.avg.com

George Eichelberger
 

Jason:

I believe you are correct about TVRM having the car.

Might I suggest that folks donate to them to help defray the costs to acquire and move it?

Ike


On Jun 24, 2022, at 11:34 AM, Jason P <gmo1515@...> wrote:

The paint scheme, deck and railing indicate it had previously been a stationary platform. I'm not sure exactly if this is the same car but it looks like the one that had been part of a viewing platform in Irondale AL. It was positioned on the south side of the tracks across from the main viewing platform. It was later moved to a shopping center called Grants Mill Station along with an ex-PRR E8, Southern coach 1076, Southern MoW baggage 90020, as well as a couple other items. The shopping center recently disposed of the railroad equipment and maybe TVRM picked up the flatcar. slapping on a period paint scheme and lettering would make the car useful for freight trains in flim shoots. Maybe that is their plan for it?

-Jason Parham
On 06/24/2022 9:31 AM Dave Queener <dave@...> wrote:


Gentlemen,

There is an approximately 40' or 42' steel flat car at TVRM with fishbelly center and side sills riding on Vulcan trucks that are clearly marked as having been cast for or by the Southern. Assuming then that it is a Southern flat car, does anyone know what number series, class, or build date it might be a part of? Here's a few pics taken yesterday:

<June 2022 083 - Crop.jpg><June 2022 094 - Crop.jpg><June 2022 095 - Crop.jpg>

Thanks!

Dave Queener
Dave Queener
 

Ike,

Good observation.

Yes. I was just down in Chattanooga for three days this week (my denomination's general assembly was held there, so I was able to pop around to TVRM after our last Session on Thursday).

I'm looking forward to spending some time at the Archives.

Can you give me those dates in July?

Dave

On 6/24/2022 11:43 AM, George Eichelberger wrote:
Dave:

Note the retaining valve between the two rightmost stake pockets. That may tell us which series it is.

Are you going to make it to the next archives work session?

Ike


On Jun 24, 2022, at 11:30 AM, Dave Queener <dave@...> wrote:

Tim, thanks for chiming in.

Ike, thanks for the very helpful pic and technical data.

My interest in the car, as you might already have guessed, is to draw it up in 3D CAD and then make a laser-cut styrene model in 1:20.3 scale. Of course my CAD work could be the basis for a model in any scale since I always drawing things in 1:1 and then scale the relevant parts down.

Yours,

Dave

On 6/24/2022 11:25 AM, George Eichelberger wrote:
PS Here’s a photo of Southern (gondola) 117644, caption was on previous email…

Note the flat car was a WrightTrak kit…. Same flat as under the transfer cab kit. A series of them would make a great Southern welded rail train.

Ike


<Sou%20117644.jpeg>

Begin forwarded message:

From: GEORGE EICHELBERGER <geichelberger@...>
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] SR Flat Car at TVRM
Date: June 24, 2022 at 11:19:58 AM EDT

Dave:

Without a good broadside photo, I cannot compare it to the General Arrangement drawings SF-1023 (Sou 115000-115249 and 118000-118749), SF-11118 (Sou 116600-116849 & 118000-118749). Those drawings are so accurate, if there is even a small difference in rivet patterns we can tell which series it is from. (Note these drawings are for both flats or gons. Gondolas of the 1920s were sometimes simply wooden sides on flat cars. Over time, sides were removed from the gons so most finished out their service as flat cars.)

Unless TVRM can find a road number someplace on the car, it would be impossible to determine exactly what the car’s revenue or MoW road number was. Unless we know where the prior owner got the car, it is possible it came from one of the industries around Birmingham, ex Southern or something else with replacement Southern trucks. With so many SR cars scrapped in B’ham, trucks would have been easy to find.

Ike



Sou 117644 is still configured as a low-side gondola on the ACL at Bradenton, FL in 1953. It was one of five hundred built at Lenoir in 1928 under Southern Specification F-97.
N.C.Miller Jr. Photo Neg A486 Bradenton, FL 2-53
Collection of GP Eichelberger


On Jun 24, 2022, at 10:49 AM, TIM ANDREWS <andrewstim@...> wrote:

Unfortunately when we got the car out of the parting lot in Irondale all previous paint markings were gone.  We will look more closely to see if the number is punched into the metal somewhere but I'm not optimistic.

Tim

On Friday, June 24, 2022, 10:31:10 AM EDT, Dave Queener <dave@...> wrote:


Gentlemen,

There is an approximately 40' or 42' steel flat car at TVRM with fishbelly center and side sills riding on Vulcan trucks that are clearly marked as having been cast for or by the Southern. Assuming then that it is a Southern flat car, does anyone know what number series, class, or build date it might be a part of? Here's a few pics taken yesterday:

<June 2022 083 - Crop.jpg><June 2022 094 - Crop.jpg><June 2022 095 - Crop.jpg>

Thanks!

Dave Queener

<June 2022 083 - Crop.jpg><June 2022 094 - Crop.jpg><June 2022 095 - Crop.jpg>


-- 
Owner, Cumberland Model Engineering
www.CumberlandModelEngineering.com  (865) 209-5654

Virus-free. www.avg.com 

-- 
Owner, Cumberland Model Engineering
www.CumberlandModelEngineering.com  (865) 209-5654
George Eichelberger
 

Dave:

The July dates, as usual, will be the third Friday and Saturday of the month, July 15 and 16.

The Spacesaver shelving in the L&NHS archives will be installed July 8 and they will be having a work session the same July dates as SRHA and in the future. Anyone in both SRHA and the L&NHS will get a “two-fer” on their trips to Chatt.  Really a “three-fer” considering all going on at TVRM.

Ike


On Jun 24, 2022, at 11:50 AM, Dave Queener <dave@...> wrote:

Ike,

Good observation.

Yes. I was just down in Chattanooga for three days this week (my denomination's general assembly was held there, so I was able to pop around to TVRM after our last Session on Thursday).

I'm looking forward to spending some time at the Archives.

Can you give me those dates in July?

Dave

On 6/24/2022 11:43 AM, George Eichelberger wrote:
Dave:

Note the retaining valve between the two rightmost stake pockets. That may tell us which series it is.

Are you going to make it to the next archives work session?

Ike


On Jun 24, 2022, at 11:30 AM, Dave Queener <dave@...> wrote:

Tim, thanks for chiming in.

Ike, thanks for the very helpful pic and technical data.

My interest in the car, as you might already have guessed, is to draw it up in 3D CAD and then make a laser-cut styrene model in 1:20.3 scale. Of course my CAD work could be the basis for a model in any scale since I always drawing things in 1:1 and then scale the relevant parts down.

Yours,

Dave

On 6/24/2022 11:25 AM, George Eichelberger wrote:
PS Here’s a photo of Southern (gondola) 117644, caption was on previous email…

Note the flat car was a WrightTrak kit…. Same flat as under the transfer cab kit. A series of them would make a great Southern welded rail train.

Ike


<Sou%20117644.jpeg>

Begin forwarded message:

From: GEORGE EICHELBERGER <geichelberger@...>
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] SR Flat Car at TVRM
Date: June 24, 2022 at 11:19:58 AM EDT

Dave:

Without a good broadside photo, I cannot compare it to the General Arrangement drawings SF-1023 (Sou 115000-115249 and 118000-118749), SF-11118 (Sou 116600-116849 & 118000-118749). Those drawings are so accurate, if there is even a small difference in rivet patterns we can tell which series it is from. (Note these drawings are for both flats or gons. Gondolas of the 1920s were sometimes simply wooden sides on flat cars. Over time, sides were removed from the gons so most finished out their service as flat cars.)

Unless TVRM can find a road number someplace on the car, it would be impossible to determine exactly what the car’s revenue or MoW road number was. Unless we know where the prior owner got the car, it is possible it came from one of the industries around Birmingham, ex Southern or something else with replacement Southern trucks. With so many SR cars scrapped in B’ham, trucks would have been easy to find.

Ike



Sou 117644 is still configured as a low-side gondola on the ACL at Bradenton, FL in 1953. It was one of five hundred built at Lenoir in 1928 under Southern Specification F-97.
N.C.Miller Jr. Photo Neg A486 Bradenton, FL 2-53
Collection of GP Eichelberger


On Jun 24, 2022, at 10:49 AM, TIM ANDREWS <andrewstim@...> wrote:

Unfortunately when we got the car out of the parting lot in Irondale all previous paint markings were gone.  We will look more closely to see if the number is punched into the metal somewhere but I'm not optimistic.

Tim

On Friday, June 24, 2022, 10:31:10 AM EDT, Dave Queener <dave@...> wrote:


Gentlemen,

There is an approximately 40' or 42' steel flat car at TVRM with fishbelly center and side sills riding on Vulcan trucks that are clearly marked as having been cast for or by the Southern. Assuming then that it is a Southern flat car, does anyone know what number series, class, or build date it might be a part of? Here's a few pics taken yesterday:

<June 2022 083 - Crop.jpg><June 2022 094 - Crop.jpg><June 2022 095 - Crop.jpg>

Thanks!

Dave Queener

<June 2022 083 - Crop.jpg><June 2022 094 - Crop.jpg><June 2022 095 - Crop.jpg>


-- 
Owner, Cumberland Model Engineering
www.CumberlandModelEngineering.com  (865) 209-5654

Virus-free. www.avg.com 

-- 
Owner, Cumberland Model Engineering
www.CumberlandModelEngineering.com  (865) 209-5654
TIM ANDREWS
 

Same car.  Not sure what we will do with it yet.

On Friday, June 24, 2022, 11:35:37 AM EDT, Jason P <gmo1515@...> wrote:


The paint scheme, deck and railing indicate it had previously been a stationary platform. I'm not sure exactly if this is the same car but it looks like the one that had been part of a viewing platform in Irondale AL. It was positioned on the south side of the tracks across from the main viewing platform. It was later moved to a shopping center called Grants Mill Station along with an ex-PRR E8, Southern coach 1076, Southern MoW baggage 90020, as well as a couple other items. The shopping center recently disposed of the railroad equipment and maybe TVRM picked up the flatcar. slapping on a period paint scheme and lettering would make the car useful for freight trains in flim shoots. Maybe that is their plan for it?

-Jason Parham

On 06/24/2022 9:31 AM Dave Queener <dave@...> wrote:


Gentlemen,

There is an approximately 40' or 42' steel flat car at TVRM with fishbelly center and side sills riding on Vulcan trucks that are clearly marked as having been cast for or by the Southern. Assuming then that it is a Southern flat car, does anyone know what number series, class, or build date it might be a part of? Here's a few pics taken yesterday:

Thanks!

Dave Queener

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