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  2. The Southern in Nashville?

locked The Southern in Nashville?

James Walton
 

Nashville, Tennessee is the only major city in the South I can think of that the Southern Railway never reached directly. Between the L&N and the NC&StL, Nashville was effectively closed off, as the poor old Tennessee Central found out. 

Did the Southern ever have plans to reach Nashville?
George Eichelberger
 

James:

In all my “digging” through the SRHA archives material, I’ve never read anything about the Southern having any interest in Nashville. As the Memphis and Charleston already gave Southern a western gateway and Nashville was not a enough of a manufacturing area to warrant to Southern going there, Sam Spencer was probably content to expand the system elsewhere, to Florida and Savannah, for example.

The most extensive files SRHA has on Memphis relate to a new Union passenger station. If anyone is familiar/interested in Memphis, that would make a good article for “TIES”.

Ike



On Jun 10, 2022, at 2:50 PM, James Walton <whovianwil@...> wrote:

Nashville, Tennessee is the only major city in the South I can think of that the Southern Railway never reached directly. Between the L&N and the NC&StL, Nashville was effectively closed off, as the poor old Tennessee Central found out. 

Did the Southern ever have plans to reach Nashville?
Steve Ellis
 

The Southern did not go to Richmond or the Tidewater area in Virginia, did it? I know that they also did not go to Jackson Mississippi,
so there were other cities in the South which it did not serve. 

Steve Ellis


On Friday, June 10, 2022, 03:56:50 PM EDT, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:


James:

In all my “digging” through the SRHA archives material, I’ve never read anything about the Southern having any interest in Nashville. As the Memphis and Charleston already gave Southern a western gateway and Nashville was not a enough of a manufacturing area to warrant to Southern going there, Sam Spencer was probably content to expand the system elsewhere, to Florida and Savannah, for example.

The most extensive files SRHA has on Memphis relate to a new Union passenger station. If anyone is familiar/interested in Memphis, that would make a good article for “TIES”.

Ike



On Jun 10, 2022, at 2:50 PM, James Walton <whovianwil@...> wrote:

Nashville, Tennessee is the only major city in the South I can think of that the Southern Railway never reached directly. Between the L&N and the NC&StL, Nashville was effectively closed off, as the poor old Tennessee Central found out. 

Did the Southern ever have plans to reach Nashville?
Robert Hanson
 

Ike, James, et al,

Between 1905 and 1908, the Southern and the IC split the Tennessee Central at Nashville with an option to purchase the road, Southern operating the portion from Emory Gap, TN, to Nashville, the IC operating the western end of the road from Nashville to Hopkinsville, KY.  The Southern's 1906 annual report shows this line on the system map included in the report. They jointly operated the Nashville Terminal Co, each road contributing two 
0-6-0's to the operation.  One of the  Southern's locomotive contributions is pictured on page 28 of Prince's Southern Railway book.  Neither company considered the operation successful and the TC was returned to its owners on July 1, 1908.

It wasn't for long, but the Southern, however briefly, did, at one time, serve Nashville, TN.

Sources - 1906 SR annual report, Richard E. Prince's Southern Railway volume, and Tennessee Central Railway - History, Locomotives and Cars, by Cliff Downey

Bob Hanson
Loganville, GA

-----Original Message-----
From: George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...>
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Sent: Fri, Jun 10, 2022 3:56 pm
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] The Southern in Nashville?

James:

In all my “digging” through the SRHA archives material, I’ve never read anything about the Southern having any interest in Nashville. As the Memphis and Charleston already gave Southern a western gateway and Nashville was not a enough of a manufacturing area to warrant to Southern going there, Sam Spencer was probably content to expand the system elsewhere, to Florida and Savannah, for example.

The most extensive files SRHA has on Memphis relate to a new Union passenger station. If anyone is familiar/interested in Memphis, that would make a good article for “TIES”.

Ike



On Jun 10, 2022, at 2:50 PM, James Walton <whovianwil@...> wrote:

Nashville, Tennessee is the only major city in the South I can think of that the Southern Railway never reached directly. Between the L&N and the NC&StL, Nashville was effectively closed off, as the poor old Tennessee Central found out. 

Did the Southern ever have plans to reach Nashville?
Robert Richardson
 

Steve,

 

Yes the Southern DID go to Richmond (West Point) and tidewater Virginia and NC also, with the merger of the original Norfolk Southern.

 

Robert Richardson

Henderson, NC

MP S114.5

 

From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve Ellis via groups.io
Sent: Friday, June 10, 2022 4:48 PM
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] The Southern in Nashville?

 

The Southern did not go to Richmond or the Tidewater area in Virginia, did it? I know that they also did not go to Jackson Mississippi,

so there were other cities in the South which it did not serve. 

 

Steve Ellis

 

 

On Friday, June 10, 2022, 03:56:50 PM EDT, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:

 

 

James:

 

In all my “digging” through the SRHA archives material, I’ve never read anything about the Southern having any interest in Nashville. As the Memphis and Charleston already gave Southern a western gateway and Nashville was not a enough of a manufacturing area to warrant to Southern going there, Sam Spencer was probably content to expand the system elsewhere, to Florida and Savannah, for example.

 

The most extensive files SRHA has on Memphis relate to a new Union passenger station. If anyone is familiar/interested in Memphis, that would make a good article for “TIES”.

 

Ike

 

 

 

On Jun 10, 2022, at 2:50 PM, James Walton <whovianwil@...> wrote:

 

Nashville, Tennessee is the only major city in the South I can think of that the Southern Railway never reached directly. Between the L&N and the NC&StL, Nashville was effectively closed off, as the poor old Tennessee Central found out. 

 

Did the Southern ever have plans to reach Nashville?

 
Bill Schafer
 

Southern had extensive operations in Richmond, West Point, and Norfolk in the early years of the 20th century, particularly in connection with shipping cotton to the ports for export. Southern also served Baltimore for over 50 years through the Chesapeake Line steamboats, which connected with Southern trains at West Point and Norfolk. 

Break-bulk and LCL-type freight was commonplace when labor was cheap, and it was economical to transport freight from the South to Baltimore (and vice versa) by the combination of Southern trains and Chesapeake Line steamers. Of course all this traffic dried up after WWII. While the steamboats were no substitute for direct rail service, they once played a role in extending SOU’s reach to Baltimore. We cover much of this story in 2020-1 and 2020-2 TIES Magazine, both of which are still in print. 

Also, remember the name of one of Southern’s two principal predecessors: the Richmond & Danville RR. 

—Bill

On Jun 10, 2022, at 17:04, Robert Richardson <seaboard@...> wrote:

Steve,
 
Yes the Southern DID go to Richmond (West Point) and tidewater Virginia and NC also, with the merger of the original Norfolk Southern.
 
Robert Richardson
Henderson, NC
MP S114.5
 
From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve Ellis via groups.io
Sent: Friday, June 10, 2022 4:48 PM
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] The Southern in Nashville?
 
The Southern did not go to Richmond or the Tidewater area in Virginia, did it? I know that they also did not go to Jackson Mississippi,
so there were other cities in the South which it did not serve. 
 
Steve Ellis
 
 
On Friday, June 10, 2022, 03:56:50 PM EDT, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote: 
 
 
James:
 
In all my “digging” through the SRHA archives material, I’ve never read anything about the Southern having any interest in Nashville. As the Memphis and Charleston already gave Southern a western gateway and Nashville was not a enough of a manufacturing area to warrant to Southern going there, Sam Spencer was probably content to expand the system elsewhere, to Florida and Savannah, for example.
 
The most extensive files SRHA has on Memphis relate to a new Union passenger station. If anyone is familiar/interested in Memphis, that would make a good article for “TIES”.
 
Ike
 
 
 
On Jun 10, 2022, at 2:50 PM, James Walton <whovianwil@...> wrote:
 
Nashville, Tennessee is the only major city in the South I can think of that the Southern Railway never reached directly. Between the L&N and the NC&StL, Nashville was effectively closed off, as the poor old Tennessee Central found out. 
 
Did the Southern ever have plans to reach Nashville?
 
Steve Ellis
 

Well, thank you very much for the information. I didn’t know all of this. I don’t ever remember reading anything about Southern passenger service to Richmond or the Tidewaters area.


However, the Southern did not go to Jackson Mississippi, did it? I believe that that was strong Illinois Central territory.

Steve Ellis
Brooklyn New York.


On Jun 10, 2022, at 5:43 PM, Bill Schafer <bill4501@...> wrote:

Southern had extensive operations in Richmond, West Point, and Norfolk in the early years of the 20th century, particularly in connection with shipping cotton to the ports for export. Southern also served Baltimore for over 50 years through the Chesapeake Line steamboats, which connected with Southern trains at West Point and Norfolk. 

Break-bulk and LCL-type freight was commonplace when labor was cheap, and it was economical to transport freight from the South to Baltimore (and vice versa) by the combination of Southern trains and Chesapeake Line steamers. Of course all this traffic dried up after WWII. While the steamboats were no substitute for direct rail service, they once played a role in extending SOU’s reach to Baltimore. We cover much of this story in 2020-1 and 2020-2 TIES Magazine, both of which are still in print. 

Also, remember the name of one of Southern’s two principal predecessors: the Richmond & Danville RR. 

—Bill

On Jun 10, 2022, at 17:04, Robert Richardson <seaboard@...> wrote:

Steve,
 
Yes the Southern DID go to Richmond (West Point) and tidewater Virginia and NC also, with the merger of the original Norfolk Southern.
 
Robert Richardson
Henderson, NC
MP S114.5
 
From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve Ellis via groups.io
Sent: Friday, June 10, 2022 4:48 PM
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] The Southern in Nashville?
 
The Southern did not go to Richmond or the Tidewater area in Virginia, did it? I know that they also did not go to Jackson Mississippi,
so there were other cities in the South which it did not serve. 
 
Steve Ellis
 
 
On Friday, June 10, 2022, 03:56:50 PM EDT, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote: 
 
 
James:
 
In all my “digging” through the SRHA archives material, I’ve never read anything about the Southern having any interest in Nashville. As the Memphis and Charleston already gave Southern a western gateway and Nashville was not a enough of a manufacturing area to warrant to Southern going there, Sam Spencer was probably content to expand the system elsewhere, to Florida and Savannah, for example.
 
The most extensive files SRHA has on Memphis relate to a new Union passenger station. If anyone is familiar/interested in Memphis, that would make a good article for “TIES”.
 
Ike
 
 
 
On Jun 10, 2022, at 2:50 PM, James Walton <whovianwil@...> wrote:
 
Nashville, Tennessee is the only major city in the South I can think of that the Southern Railway never reached directly. Between the L&N and the NC&StL, Nashville was effectively closed off, as the poor old Tennessee Central found out. 
 
Did the Southern ever have plans to reach Nashville?
 
George Eichelberger
 

The Southern got to Tidewater long before it acquired the original NS. Here is a portion of an ACL-SR trackage rights presentation I did years ago at the Cocoa Beach RPM. (one drawing on Pg 4 did not export to the PDF.) A heavily revised and updated version may be a future CCB and/or TIES article. Among other “new” topics, it includes Savannah Union Station and the construction of the ACL Jesup-Folkston cut off.

For anyone that has never been to the SRHA archives or sat in on a clinic or presentation using material from the archive, I’ve uploaded a PDF to Google Drive.


If you download the PDF, please send comments to archives@....

When I was first asked to do a clinic at Cocoa, the assumption was it would be on a modeling subject. I suggested that with so many good modeling topics on the schedule, I might try to do a “historical” presentation. Our expectation was either no one would sit in or they would leave as soon as they saw the subject did not include putting a high nose on a SR diesel model. Since that first clinic, “history” has been become a fixture of the sessions.

The history of the Southern is the reason SRHA exists today. Anyone interested is welcome to join at SRHA.net.

Ike




On Jun 10, 2022, at 5:04 PM, Robert Richardson <seaboard@...> wrote:

Steve,

 

Yes the Southern DID go to Richmond (West Point) and tidewater Virginia and NC also, with the merger of the original Norfolk Southern.

 

Robert Richardson

Henderson, NC

MP S114.5

 

From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve Ellis via groups.io
Sent: Friday, June 10, 2022 4:48 PM
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] The Southern in Nashville?

 

The Southern did not go to Richmond or the Tidewater area in Virginia, did it? I know that they also did not go to Jackson Mississippi,

so there were other cities in the South which it did not serve. 

 

Steve Ellis

 

 

On Friday, June 10, 2022, 03:56:50 PM EDT, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:

 

 

James:

 

In all my “digging” through the SRHA archives material, I’ve never read anything about the Southern having any interest in Nashville. As the Memphis and Charleston already gave Southern a western gateway and Nashville was not a enough of a manufacturing area to warrant to Southern going there, Sam Spencer was probably content to expand the system elsewhere, to Florida and Savannah, for example.

 

The most extensive files SRHA has on Memphis relate to a new Union passenger station. If anyone is familiar/interested in Memphis, that would make a good article for “TIES”.

 

Ike

 

 

 

On Jun 10, 2022, at 2:50 PM, James Walton <whovianwil@...> wrote:

 

Nashville, Tennessee is the only major city in the South I can think of that the Southern Railway never reached directly. Between the L&N and the NC&StL, Nashville was effectively closed off, as the poor old Tennessee Central found out. 

 

Did the Southern ever have plans to reach Nashville?

 
Jason P
 

George,
How about going further west, like say Texas? Ever seen any evidence of that?

Jason 


On Jun 10, 2022, at 4:04 PM, Robert Hanson via groups.io <RHanson669@...> wrote:


Ike, James, et al,

Between 1905 and 1908, the Southern and the IC split the Tennessee Central at Nashville with an option to purchase the road, Southern operating the portion from Emory Gap, TN, to Nashville, the IC operating the western end of the road from Nashville to Hopkinsville, KY.  The Southern's 1906 annual report shows this line on the system map included in the report. They jointly operated the Nashville Terminal Co, each road contributing two 
0-6-0's to the operation.  One of the  Southern's locomotive contributions is pictured on page 28 of Prince's Southern Railway book.  Neither company considered the operation successful and the TC was returned to its owners on July 1, 1908.

It wasn't for long, but the Southern, however briefly, did, at one time, serve Nashville, TN.

Sources - 1906 SR annual report, Richard E. Prince's Southern Railway volume, and Tennessee Central Railway - History, Locomotives and Cars, by Cliff Downey

Bob Hanson
Loganville, GA

-----Original Message-----
From: George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...>
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Sent: Fri, Jun 10, 2022 3:56 pm
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] The Southern in Nashville?

James:

In all my “digging” through the SRHA archives material, I’ve never read anything about the Southern having any interest in Nashville. As the Memphis and Charleston already gave Southern a western gateway and Nashville was not a enough of a manufacturing area to warrant to Southern going there, Sam Spencer was probably content to expand the system elsewhere, to Florida and Savannah, for example.

The most extensive files SRHA has on Memphis relate to a new Union passenger station. If anyone is familiar/interested in Memphis, that would make a good article for “TIES”.

Ike



On Jun 10, 2022, at 2:50 PM, James Walton <whovianwil@...> wrote:

Nashville, Tennessee is the only major city in the South I can think of that the Southern Railway never reached directly. Between the L&N and the NC&StL, Nashville was effectively closed off, as the poor old Tennessee Central found out. 

Did the Southern ever have plans to reach Nashville?
Bill Schafer
 

Jackson, Miss. - no. 

On Jun 10, 2022, at 17:52, Steve Ellis via groups.io <meadowbrookdairy@...> wrote:

Well, thank you very much for the information. I didn’t know all of this. I don’t ever remember reading anything about Southern passenger service to Richmond or the Tidewaters area.


However, the Southern did not go to Jackson Mississippi, did it? I believe that that was strong Illinois Central territory.

Steve Ellis
Brooklyn New York.


On Jun 10, 2022, at 5:43 PM, Bill Schafer <bill4501@...> wrote:

Southern had extensive operations in Richmond, West Point, and Norfolk in the early years of the 20th century, particularly in connection with shipping cotton to the ports for export. Southern also served Baltimore for over 50 years through the Chesapeake Line steamboats, which connected with Southern trains at West Point and Norfolk. 

Break-bulk and LCL-type freight was commonplace when labor was cheap, and it was economical to transport freight from the South to Baltimore (and vice versa) by the combination of Southern trains and Chesapeake Line steamers. Of course all this traffic dried up after WWII. While the steamboats were no substitute for direct rail service, they once played a role in extending SOU’s reach to Baltimore. We cover much of this story in 2020-1 and 2020-2 TIES Magazine, both of which are still in print. 

Also, remember the name of one of Southern’s two principal predecessors: the Richmond & Danville RR. 

—Bill

On Jun 10, 2022, at 17:04, Robert Richardson <seaboard@...> wrote:

Steve,
 
Yes the Southern DID go to Richmond (West Point) and tidewater Virginia and NC also, with the merger of the original Norfolk Southern.
 
Robert Richardson
Henderson, NC
MP S114.5
 
From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve Ellis via groups.io
Sent: Friday, June 10, 2022 4:48 PM
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] The Southern in Nashville?
 
The Southern did not go to Richmond or the Tidewater area in Virginia, did it? I know that they also did not go to Jackson Mississippi,
so there were other cities in the South which it did not serve. 
 
Steve Ellis
 
 
On Friday, June 10, 2022, 03:56:50 PM EDT, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote: 
 
 
James:
 
In all my “digging” through the SRHA archives material, I’ve never read anything about the Southern having any interest in Nashville. As the Memphis and Charleston already gave Southern a western gateway and Nashville was not a enough of a manufacturing area to warrant to Southern going there, Sam Spencer was probably content to expand the system elsewhere, to Florida and Savannah, for example.
 
The most extensive files SRHA has on Memphis relate to a new Union passenger station. If anyone is familiar/interested in Memphis, that would make a good article for “TIES”.
 
Ike
 
 
 
On Jun 10, 2022, at 2:50 PM, James Walton <whovianwil@...> wrote:
 
Nashville, Tennessee is the only major city in the South I can think of that the Southern Railway never reached directly. Between the L&N and the NC&StL, Nashville was effectively closed off, as the poor old Tennessee Central found out. 
 
Did the Southern ever have plans to reach Nashville?
 
Jason P
 

Jackson, MS was strong IC territory but GM&O did reach it as well. 

Jason P


On Jun 10, 2022, at 4:52 PM, Steve Ellis via groups.io <meadowbrookdairy@...> wrote:

Well, thank you very much for the information. I didn’t know all of this. I don’t ever remember reading anything about Southern passenger service to Richmond or the Tidewaters area.


However, the Southern did not go to Jackson Mississippi, did it? I believe that that was strong Illinois Central territory.

Steve Ellis
Brooklyn New York.


On Jun 10, 2022, at 5:43 PM, Bill Schafer <bill4501@...> wrote:

Southern had extensive operations in Richmond, West Point, and Norfolk in the early years of the 20th century, particularly in connection with shipping cotton to the ports for export. Southern also served Baltimore for over 50 years through the Chesapeake Line steamboats, which connected with Southern trains at West Point and Norfolk. 

Break-bulk and LCL-type freight was commonplace when labor was cheap, and it was economical to transport freight from the South to Baltimore (and vice versa) by the combination of Southern trains and Chesapeake Line steamers. Of course all this traffic dried up after WWII. While the steamboats were no substitute for direct rail service, they once played a role in extending SOU’s reach to Baltimore. We cover much of this story in 2020-1 and 2020-2 TIES Magazine, both of which are still in print. 

Also, remember the name of one of Southern’s two principal predecessors: the Richmond & Danville RR. 

—Bill

On Jun 10, 2022, at 17:04, Robert Richardson <seaboard@...> wrote:

Steve,
 
Yes the Southern DID go to Richmond (West Point) and tidewater Virginia and NC also, with the merger of the original Norfolk Southern.
 
Robert Richardson
Henderson, NC
MP S114.5
 
From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve Ellis via groups.io
Sent: Friday, June 10, 2022 4:48 PM
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] The Southern in Nashville?
 
The Southern did not go to Richmond or the Tidewater area in Virginia, did it? I know that they also did not go to Jackson Mississippi,
so there were other cities in the South which it did not serve. 
 
Steve Ellis
 
 
On Friday, June 10, 2022, 03:56:50 PM EDT, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote: 
 
 
James:
 
In all my “digging” through the SRHA archives material, I’ve never read anything about the Southern having any interest in Nashville. As the Memphis and Charleston already gave Southern a western gateway and Nashville was not a enough of a manufacturing area to warrant to Southern going there, Sam Spencer was probably content to expand the system elsewhere, to Florida and Savannah, for example.
 
The most extensive files SRHA has on Memphis relate to a new Union passenger station. If anyone is familiar/interested in Memphis, that would make a good article for “TIES”.
 
Ike
 
 
 
On Jun 10, 2022, at 2:50 PM, James Walton <whovianwil@...> wrote:
 
Nashville, Tennessee is the only major city in the South I can think of that the Southern Railway never reached directly. Between the L&N and the NC&StL, Nashville was effectively closed off, as the poor old Tennessee Central found out. 
 
Did the Southern ever have plans to reach Nashville?
 
George Eichelberger
 

Nothing about Texas, even considering the "Cincinnati, New Orleans & Texas Pacific" was a Southern property.

When the Southern Railway System was created, or soon afterward, routes went to Washington, Louisville, Cincinnati, E. St Louis, Birmingham, Chattanooga, Pinners Point (passengers via ferry to Norfolk), Atlanta, Brunswick, GA and New Orleans (NOLA). FC&P and Plant system predecessors were already developing routes in Florida and Southern wanted a dependable traffic connection to Henry Flagler’s FEC for passenger and freight traffic. That is the direction SR wanted to expand after about 1900.

Ike


On Jun 10, 2022, at 6:01 PM, Jason P <gmo1515@...> wrote:

George,
How about going further west, like say Texas? Ever seen any evidence of that?

Jason 


On Jun 10, 2022, at 4:04 PM, Robert Hanson via groups.io <RHanson669@...> wrote:


Ike, James, et al,

Between 1905 and 1908, the Southern and the IC split the Tennessee Central at Nashville with an option to purchase the road, Southern operating the portion from Emory Gap, TN, to Nashville, the IC operating the western end of the road from Nashville to Hopkinsville, KY.  The Southern's 1906 annual report shows this line on the system map included in the report. They jointly operated the Nashville Terminal Co, each road contributing two 
0-6-0's to the operation.  One of the  Southern's locomotive contributions is pictured on page 28 of Prince's Southern Railway book.  Neither company considered the operation successful and the TC was returned to its owners on July 1, 1908.

It wasn't for long, but the Southern, however briefly, did, at one time, serve Nashville, TN.

Sources - 1906 SR annual report, Richard E. Prince's Southern Railway volume, and Tennessee Central Railway - History, Locomotives and Cars, by Cliff Downey

Bob Hanson
Loganville, GA

-----Original Message-----
From: George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...>
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Sent: Fri, Jun 10, 2022 3:56 pm
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] The Southern in Nashville?

James:

In all my “digging” through the SRHA archives material, I’ve never read anything about the Southern having any interest in Nashville. As the Memphis and Charleston already gave Southern a western gateway and Nashville was not a enough of a manufacturing area to warrant to Southern going there, Sam Spencer was probably content to expand the system elsewhere, to Florida and Savannah, for example.

The most extensive files SRHA has on Memphis relate to a new Union passenger station. If anyone is familiar/interested in Memphis, that would make a good article for “TIES”.

Ike



On Jun 10, 2022, at 2:50 PM, James Walton <whovianwil@...> wrote:

Nashville, Tennessee is the only major city in the South I can think of that the Southern Railway never reached directly. Between the L&N and the NC&StL, Nashville was effectively closed off, as the poor old Tennessee Central found out. 

Did the Southern ever have plans to reach Nashville?
George Eichelberger
 

Sorry…the Southern DID get to Jackson, in 1906….

Ike



On Jun 10, 2022, at 6:05 PM, Jason P <gmo1515@...> wrote:

Jackson, MS was strong IC territory but GM&O did reach it as well. 

Jason P


On Jun 10, 2022, at 4:52 PM, Steve Ellis via groups.io <meadowbrookdairy@...> wrote:

Well, thank you very much for the information. I didn’t know all of this. I don’t ever remember reading anything about Southern passenger service to Richmond or the Tidewaters area.


However, the Southern did not go to Jackson Mississippi, did it? I believe that that was strong Illinois Central territory.

Steve Ellis
Brooklyn New York.
C J Wyatt
 

No, that's Jackson TN.

Jack Wyatt

On Friday, June 10, 2022, 06:20:03 PM EDT, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:


Sorry…the Southern DID get to Jackson, in 1906….

Ike



On Jun 10, 2022, at 6:05 PM, Jason P <gmo1515@...> wrote:

Jackson, MS was strong IC territory but GM&O did reach it as well. 

Jason P


On Jun 10, 2022, at 4:52 PM, Steve Ellis via groups.io <meadowbrookdairy@...> wrote:


Well, thank you very much for the information. I didn’t know all of this. I don’t ever remember reading anything about Southern passenger service to Richmond or the Tidewaters area.


However, the Southern did not go to Jackson Mississippi, did it? I believe that that was strong Illinois Central territory.

Steve Ellis
Brooklyn New York.
Robert Hanson
 

Ike, 

Unless I am mistaken, the Jackson mentioned on the trackage agreement is Jackson, TN.  "Jackson-Corinth-Haleyvlle - Jasper" is the route that was pieced together to get the IC into Birmingham.  This arrangement - or a similar one - remained in effect at least the late 1970's when I worked for the Illinois Central Gulf.

Bob Hanson
Loganville, GA


-----Original Message-----
From: George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...>
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Sent: Fri, Jun 10, 2022 6:19 pm
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] The Southern in Nashville?

Sorry…the Southern DID get to Jackson, in 1906….

Ike



On Jun 10, 2022, at 6:05 PM, Jason P <gmo1515@...> wrote:

Jackson, MS was strong IC territory but GM&O did reach it as well. 

Jason P


On Jun 10, 2022, at 4:52 PM, Steve Ellis via groups.io <meadowbrookdairy@...> wrote:


Well, thank you very much for the information. I didn’t know all of this. I don’t ever remember reading anything about Southern passenger service to Richmond or the Tidewaters area.


However, the Southern did not go to Jackson Mississippi, did it? I believe that that was strong Illinois Central territory.

Steve Ellis
Brooklyn New York.
C J Wyatt
 

First paragraph of this court case regarding the GM&O abandoning its trackage rights explains the transaction:


Jack Wyatt

On Friday, June 10, 2022, 07:08:30 PM EDT, Robert Hanson via groups.io <rhanson669@...> wrote:


Ike, 

Unless I am mistaken, the Jackson mentioned on the trackage agreement is Jackson, TN.  "Jackson-Corinth-Haleyvlle - Jasper" is the route that was pieced together to get the IC into Birmingham.  This arrangement - or a similar one - remained in effect at least the late 1970's when I worked for the Illinois Central Gulf.

Bob Hanson
Loganville, GA


-----Original Message-----
From: George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...>
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Sent: Fri, Jun 10, 2022 6:19 pm
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] The Southern in Nashville?

Sorry…the Southern DID get to Jackson, in 1906….

Ike



On Jun 10, 2022, at 6:05 PM, Jason P <gmo1515@...> wrote:

Jackson, MS was strong IC territory but GM&O did reach it as well. 

Jason P


On Jun 10, 2022, at 4:52 PM, Steve Ellis via groups.io <meadowbrookdairy@...> wrote:


Well, thank you very much for the information. I didn’t know all of this. I don’t ever remember reading anything about Southern passenger service to Richmond or the Tidewaters area.


However, the Southern did not go to Jackson Mississippi, did it? I believe that that was strong Illinois Central territory.

Steve Ellis
Brooklyn New York.
Robert Hanson
 

Yep, the GM&O gave up these rights in favor of rights over the L&N into Birmingham.  The IC retained its rights, though.

Bob Hanson


-----Original Message-----
From: C J Wyatt <cjwyatt@...>
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Sent: Fri, Jun 10, 2022 7:13 pm
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] The Southern in Nashville?

First paragraph of this court case regarding the GM&O abandoning its trackage rights explains the transaction:


Jack Wyatt

On Friday, June 10, 2022, 07:08:30 PM EDT, Robert Hanson via groups.io <rhanson669@...> wrote:


Ike, 

Unless I am mistaken, the Jackson mentioned on the trackage agreement is Jackson, TN.  "Jackson-Corinth-Haleyvlle - Jasper" is the route that was pieced together to get the IC into Birmingham.  This arrangement - or a similar one - remained in effect at least the late 1970's when I worked for the Illinois Central Gulf.

Bob Hanson
Loganville, GA


-----Original Message-----
From: George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...>
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Sent: Fri, Jun 10, 2022 6:19 pm
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] The Southern in Nashville?

Sorry…the Southern DID get to Jackson, in 1906….

Ike



On Jun 10, 2022, at 6:05 PM, Jason P <gmo1515@...> wrote:

Jackson, MS was strong IC territory but GM&O did reach it as well. 

Jason P


On Jun 10, 2022, at 4:52 PM, Steve Ellis via groups.io <meadowbrookdairy@...> wrote:


Well, thank you very much for the information. I didn’t know all of this. I don’t ever remember reading anything about Southern passenger service to Richmond or the Tidewaters area.


However, the Southern did not go to Jackson Mississippi, did it? I believe that that was strong Illinois Central territory.

Steve Ellis
Brooklyn New York.
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