locked TIES


Carl Ardrey
 

SRHA has a complete set of the Southern Rwy publication Ties.  What would be the interest in offering for sale a CD with a calendar year's worth of issues?
CEA


Wick Moorman
 

I’m in. 
Wick


On Aug 22, 2021, at 7:07 PM, Carl Ardrey <carlardrey2005@...> wrote:

SRHA has a complete set of the Southern Rwy publication Ties.  What would be the interest in offering for sale a CD with a calendar year's worth of issues?
CEA


aramsay18
 

Hello Carl

Yes I would be interested in the Ties publications.

Andy Ramsay
Berryville VA

On Sun, Aug 22, 2021 at 7:07 PM Carl Ardrey <carlardrey2005@...> wrote:
SRHA has a complete set of the Southern Rwy publication Ties.  What would be the interest in offering for sale a CD with a calendar year's worth of issues?
CEA


William Harley
 

I have about 40+ years worth of paper collection of “TIES”.
Was hoping for a CD or whatever of a 2022 Calendar that could be printed out or our beloved Railway.
Cheers
Bill Harley

On Aug 22, 2021, at 7:05 PM, Carl Ardrey <carlardrey2005@...> wrote:

SRHA has a complete set of the Southern Rwy publication Ties.  What would be the interest in offering for sale a CD with a calendar year's worth of issues?
CEA


A&Y Dave in MD
 

It’s an interesting idea.  Sorry for ignorant questions. There’s a lot that could affect my interest. I recognize you’re just floating a trial balloon and may not have settled on options. It can be a bit of a chicken and egg thing.

Are you aiming at the SRHA member researcher or people generally interested in the Southern?
How many issues in a calendar year? 
What medium, e.g., DVD, USB drive, secure download? (a lot of new laptops and tablets don’t have DVD drives)
What file format?
Would text be searchable? 
What time span of years would be produced?   Ideas on a rough price point per year?  
Would there be a discount price for ordering a decade or a complete set?

Thanks

Dave

Sent from Dave Bott's iPhone

On Aug 22, 2021, at 7:05 PM, Carl Ardrey <carlardrey2005@...> wrote:

SRHA has a complete set of the Southern Rwy publication Ties.  What would be the interest in offering for sale a CD with a calendar year's worth of issues?
CEA


Michael Cathey
 

Carl,

I’m interested. Occasionally run across loose copies in antique malls. Some are dry, some are fascinating, all are interesting.

Enjoyed the CD of “Southern News Bulletin”, predecessor(?) of “Ties”.

Mike Cathey  Orange, Va.

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows

 

From: Carl Ardrey
Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2021 7:05 PM
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io
Subject: [SouthernRailway] TIES

 

SRHA has a complete set of the Southern Rwy publication Ties.  What would be the interest in offering for sale a CD with a calendar year's worth of issues?
CEA

 


Eric Schrowang
 

That could be interesting. Look forward to seeing it.

Eric

On Sun, Aug 22, 2021, 9:22 PM Michael Cathey via groups.io <mike76cathey=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Carl,

I’m interested. Occasionally run across loose copies in antique malls. Some are dry, some are fascinating, all are interesting.

Enjoyed the CD of “Southern News Bulletin”, predecessor(?) of “Ties”.

Mike Cathey  Orange, Va.

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows

 

From: Carl Ardrey
Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2021 7:05 PM
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io
Subject: [SouthernRailway] TIES

 

SRHA has a complete set of the Southern Rwy publication Ties.  What would be the interest in offering for sale a CD with a calendar year's worth of issues?
CEA

 


Preston Clark
 


From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io> on behalf of Wick Moorman <cwmoorman@...>
Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2021 7:14:47 PM
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io <main@southernrailway.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] TIES
 
I’m in. 
Wick


On Aug 22, 2021, at 7:07 PM, Carl Ardrey <carlardrey2005@...> wrote:

SRHA has a complete set of the Southern Rwy publication Ties.  What would be the interest in offering for sale a CD with a calendar year's worth of issues?
CEA


Rob Wingo
 

still have a few dozen from my dad and they are a fascinating look into the past.   However….

I am not sure I would buy more than a few because I have enough stuff and as they are interesting I am not sure I really wanna read an entire year of the magazine without knowing some content and that is even more work than scanning and mailing.  Is this a fund raising venture for the SHRA or just being provided as a service to the community with cost recovery?

If its just a service I will suggest another avenue.  Since I live 500 miles from TVRM and would rarely get a chance to come dig through the archive  I think a web publication available to all SHRA members of the material ( and all of the scanned material at the archive even) should be a benefit of membership.  I’d feel very comfortable raising the yearly dues ($1-$10?) to pay for it.  I would also like to upload some of my father’s material for all members to see rather than sitting in my basement.  I’d guess alot of members would contribute also.

I’d like to know what our new SHRA webmaster thinks of a searchable database of material from the archive as it becomes available where all
members could log in and view it.  

-Rob

 


Paul Spilman
 

Great idea, but it needs to be done the right way. Doing one CD per year? No thanks. It would be better to offer the entire collection as one digital download, on a flash drive, or at worst, data DVDs. 

A large number of laptops now do not come with a disc drive at all. A lot of people rely solely on a tablet now. Physical copies of digital media are dying. Why not just eliminate the issue and make it compatible with nearly any device from the beginning? 

If you do it digitally, I guess you could sell one year at a time, but that would be annoying to someone who wants the entire archive, which I expect a lot of people would want, such as myself. 

Additionally, having it as one complete collection would make for a much more useful index, which is a very important aspect of offering something like this. The Model Railroader archive would be way less valuable without the ability to search it, as an example. 

Finally, price. It would need to be very reasonably priced for most people to see the value in buying it. 

Paul Spilman


Marv Clemons
 

A great idea, especially if scanned in searchable PDF format and uploaded to the website and/or flash drive.

Marv Clemons


aramsay18
 

I agree with the suggestion to make the entire archive (for all years) available in a digital form such as PDF.  It is essential IMHO that a digital archive be searchable.  I would prefer a download distribution.  I want to be able to search across the complete archive.  I would also want to be able to search individual issues.  Also to be able to browse all issues by year and month.  Should this project be undertaken, I will volunteer to help work out functional (user) requirements.  I would also help work out the structure and format for its digital distribution.

Andy Ramsay
Berryville VA

On Mon, Aug 23, 2021 at 8:29 AM Paul Spilman <soumodeler@...> wrote:
Great idea, but it needs to be done the right way. Doing one CD per year? No thanks. It would be better to offer the entire collection as one digital download, on a flash drive, or at worst, data DVDs. 

A large number of laptops now do not come with a disc drive at all. A lot of people rely solely on a tablet now. Physical copies of digital media are dying. Why not just eliminate the issue and make it compatible with nearly any device from the beginning? 

If you do it digitally, I guess you could sell one year at a time, but that would be annoying to someone who wants the entire archive, which I expect a lot of people would want, such as myself. 

Additionally, having it as one complete collection would make for a much more useful index, which is a very important aspect of offering something like this. The Model Railroader archive would be way less valuable without the ability to search it, as an example. 

Finally, price. It would need to be very reasonably priced for most people to see the value in buying it. 

Paul Spilman


Michael Roderick
 

I agree with what is being discussed. I think we could change the membership dues to reflect those that would do a lot of research and having that access to the digital archives as a benefit. Those that don’t due a lot of  research could stay at the current membership rate and pay as need fee for accessing the digital archives. As for the Ties Magazine going Digital I think we should do them in 10 year increments this way people can choose which group they want.

 

Mike Roderick

 

From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io> On Behalf Of Marv Clemons
Sent: Monday, August 23, 2021 09:14
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] TIES

 

A great idea, especially if scanned in searchable PDF format and uploaded to the website and/or flash drive.

Marv Clemons


Preston Clark
 

I Agreed, overall, the more data we can get in a digital, searchable, format the better and cheaper it will be for all us modelers and enthusiasts. I know everyone is different, but I appreciate all space savings I get as well and digital helps with this as well!

Preston Clark


From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io> on behalf of Marv Clemons <mclemonsjr@...>
Sent: Monday, August 23, 2021 9:13 AM
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] TIES
 
A great idea, especially if scanned in searchable PDF format and uploaded to the website and/or flash drive.

Marv Clemons


George Eichelberger
 

Bob:

SRHA BOD members discuss options to access SRHA archives materials remotely constantly. Until this point, because we have moved the archives at least a half-dozen times in 25 or so years (and dealt with years of limited access at Kennesaw for nearly half of that), the work to undertake large-scale scanning has only been under way for a few years...limited by Covid.

Now, that we are getting to the point where we are getting materials organized and scanned AND are working to put the technology in place to scan, store and distribute drawings and documents we are closer to the time when we want to move from “discussing options” to being able to provide more of our material remotely. (BTW, virtually every aspect of the SRHA archives we have today, quality of the facility, access, location, etc. is the result of SRHA’s relationship with TVRM. Our experience since moving to Chattanooga and discussions with multiple other railroad historical groups convinces us the SRHA archives is in as good a situation as any other group…..for the present and long term!)

(Note!!: We purchased, received, and setup a large format color scanner this past weekend…cost about $8,000. Donations to defray that expense are certainly welcome! Even for people that could never visit the archives, archives donations and SRHA membership, are meaningful ways to support SRHA’s/TVRM's efforts to preserve SR history.)

Rather than try to list anything as pro or con reasons for making material available remotely on a larger scale, let me simply pose some (of my own) comments and ask for everyone’s opinions and feedback:

Re: "and all of the scanned material at the archive even) should be a benefit of membership”:
Almost the entire amount of SRHA member “dues” pays to print and mail “TIES”. (Revenue from hobby shop sales goes directly to White River.)

Said differently, SRHA membership monies have been a very small factor in acquiring, moving or housing our collections for more than 30 years. Some dollar amounts may be useful: SRHA has paid more than $100,000 for purchased collections and probably about the same amount to pack, move and store them. (Note that this does not include travel, truck rentals, storage fees, etc. that were donated by individuals.) Those amounts came from a combination of Grab sales and cash donations….not annual membership fees. (SRHA member donations that helped TVRM purchase the archives building are in the area of $400,000.)

Add to those dollar costs the many hours of work by SRHA volunteers over those 25+ years and ask the question, “How much of a "free ride” should be available today? How do we deal with those questions and make archives material available to Southern Railway modelers, researchers and historians?

Re: Scanning and organizing….
….are labor intensive, boring and even mind numbing tasks. How can they be done to develop digital archives? (We could bring in, and pay, people to do that work but how would that be funded?)

I think this is enough for everyone to get the idea of the kinds of questions and issue we are dealing with. Comments and ideas are welcome, either via the .io groups or to archives@....

Ike



On Aug 23, 2021, at 7:22 AM, Rob Wingo <robertawingo@...> wrote:

still have a few dozen from my dad and they are a fascinating look into the past.   However….

I am not sure I would buy more than a few because I have enough stuff and as they are interesting I am not sure I really wanna read an entire year of the magazine without knowing some content and that is even more work than scanning and mailing.  Is this a fund raising venture for the SHRA or just being provided as a service to the community with cost recovery?

If its just a service I will suggest another avenue.  Since I live 500 miles from TVRM and would rarely get a chance to come dig through the archive  I think a web publication available to all SHRA members of the material ( and all of the scanned material at the archive even) should be a benefit of membership.  I’d feel very comfortable raising the yearly dues ($1-$10?) to pay for it.  I would also like to upload some of my father’s material for all members to see rather than sitting in my basement.  I’d guess alot of members would contribute also.

I’d like to know what our new SHRA webmaster thinks of a searchable database of material from the archive as it becomes available where all
members could log in and view it.  

-Rob

 


A&Y Dave in MD
 

It sounds to me like the association has several goals. I think it would be helpful to separate the association goals and not assume one size fits all. Those individuals with the means to fund capital campaigns are often different than those who are dedicated to the preservation or learning through volunteer work, and different again from many people who are interested casually in learning. Each can contribute if you ask them the right way.

SRHA may need a capital campaign to support the educational and preservation mission. There is not likely a sustainable commercial market for historical data that would support the kinds of spending for archive space and scanning equipment documented below. Trying to link that level of financial burden to products for people casually interested in learning just ends those people’s interest. They find a new interest, are left dissatisfied, and/or a negative impression.

Volunteers do work because they feel they are contributing to a valued goal. Their time should be honored and recognized, but not considered part of the balance sheet.

Dave

Sent from Dave Bott's iPhone

On Aug 23, 2021, at 10:14 AM, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:

Bob:

SRHA BOD members discuss options to access SRHA archives materials remotely constantly. Until this point, because we have moved the archives at least a half-dozen times in 25 or so years (and dealt with years of limited access at Kennesaw for nearly half of that), the work to undertake large-scale scanning has only been under way for a few years...limited by Covid.

Now, that we are getting to the point where we are getting materials organized and scanned AND are working to put the technology in place to scan, store and distribute drawings and documents we are closer to the time when we want to move from “discussing options” to being able to provide more of our material remotely. (BTW, virtually every aspect of the SRHA archives we have today, quality of the facility, access, location, etc. is the result of SRHA’s relationship with TVRM. Our experience since moving to Chattanooga and discussions with multiple other railroad historical groups convinces us the SRHA archives is in as good a situation as any other group…..for the present and long term!)

(Note!!: We purchased, received, and setup a large format color scanner this past weekend…cost about $8,000. Donations to defray that expense are certainly welcome! Even for people that could never visit the archives, archives donations and SRHA membership, are meaningful ways to support SRHA’s/TVRM's efforts to preserve SR history.)

Rather than try to list anything as pro or con reasons for making material available remotely on a larger scale, let me simply pose some (of my own) comments and ask for everyone’s opinions and feedback:

Re: "and all of the scanned material at the archive even) should be a benefit of membership”:
Almost the entire amount of SRHA member “dues” pays to print and mail “TIES”. (Revenue from hobby shop sales goes directly to White River.)

Said differently, SRHA membership monies have been a very small factor in acquiring, moving or housing our collections for more than 30 years. Some dollar amounts may be useful: SRHA has paid more than $100,000 for purchased collections and probably about the same amount to pack, move and store them. (Note that this does not include travel, truck rentals, storage fees, etc. that were donated by individuals.) Those amounts came from a combination of Grab sales and cash donations….not annual membership fees. (SRHA member donations that helped TVRM purchase the archives building are in the area of $400,000.)

Add to those dollar costs the many hours of work by SRHA volunteers over those 25+ years and ask the question, “How much of a "free ride” should be available today? How do we deal with those questions and make archives material available to Southern Railway modelers, researchers and historians?

Re: Scanning and organizing….
….are labor intensive, boring and even mind numbing tasks. How can they be done to develop digital archives? (We could bring in, and pay, people to do that work but how would that be funded?)

I think this is enough for everyone to get the idea of the kinds of questions and issue we are dealing with. Comments and ideas are welcome, either via the .io groups or to archives@....

Ike



On Aug 23, 2021, at 7:22 AM, Rob Wingo <robertawingo@...> wrote:

still have a few dozen from my dad and they are a fascinating look into the past.   However….

I am not sure I would buy more than a few because I have enough stuff and as they are interesting I am not sure I really wanna read an entire year of the magazine without knowing some content and that is even more work than scanning and mailing.  Is this a fund raising venture for the SHRA or just being provided as a service to the community with cost recovery?

If its just a service I will suggest another avenue.  Since I live 500 miles from TVRM and would rarely get a chance to come dig through the archive  I think a web publication available to all SHRA members of the material ( and all of the scanned material at the archive even) should be a benefit of membership.  I’d feel very comfortable raising the yearly dues ($1-$10?) to pay for it.  I would also like to upload some of my father’s material for all members to see rather than sitting in my basement.  I’d guess alot of members would contribute also.

I’d like to know what our new SHRA webmaster thinks of a searchable database of material from the archive as it becomes available where all
members could log in and view it.  

-Rob

 


George Eichelberger
 

Dave:

First, everyone realizes NO museum or archives could survive by selling copies of anything.

In no way, was I minimizing the work done by volunteers! While volunteer efforts are always difficult to quantify, they are AS important as cash or material donations. For example, the back-breaking work less than a dozen volunteers did to clean out Hayne Shop in the one-day (8:00AM to 5:00PM) before they locked the gate on us was an amazing effort. The folks that packed everything in Kennesaw also did an amazing job that the museum thought we could never get done. (I could not help as I would have been arrested for trespassing if I had gone on the property.)

I am not trying to denigrate folks that donate their time and hard work in lieu of/addition to cash…my question about “free ride” relates more to people that think because they “like” the Southern, they should have anything they want at any time for free. We need policies that limit that behavior but still make material available to serious researchers, modelers, etc. as easily as possible…..THAT is the major question in my mind.

Ike

PS There are a thousand reasons why people do not help/join/donate/participate in the archives or SRHA, I’ve heard them all. More than once, we have heard a disgruntled “I am not going to renew my membership” when someone demands that we do their basic research or give them unfettered archives access. The response? “Don’t let the door hit you on the way out!” 

We respond to both SRHA and non-SRHA member inquiries and requests, care to guess which gets the fastest attention?



On Aug 23, 2021, at 11:20 AM, A&Y Dave in MD <dbott@...> wrote:

It sounds to me like the association has several goals. I think it would be helpful to separate the association goals and not assume one size fits all. Those individuals with the means to fund capital campaigns are often different than those who are dedicated to the preservation or learning through volunteer work, and different again from many people who are interested casually in learning. Each can contribute if you ask them the right way.

SRHA may need a capital campaign to support the educational and preservation mission. There is not likely a sustainable commercial market for historical data that would support the kinds of spending for archive space and scanning equipment documented below. Trying to link that level of financial burden to products for people casually interested in learning just ends those people’s interest. They find a new interest, are left dissatisfied, and/or a negative impression.

Volunteers do work because they feel they are contributing to a valued goal. Their time should be honored and recognized, but not considered part of the balance sheet.

Dave

Sent from Dave Bott's iPhone

On Aug 23, 2021, at 10:14 AM, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:

Bob:

SRHA BOD members discuss options to access SRHA archives materials remotely constantly. Until this point, because we have moved the archives at least a half-dozen times in 25 or so years (and dealt with years of limited access at Kennesaw for nearly half of that), the work to undertake large-scale scanning has only been under way for a few years...limited by Covid.

Now, that we are getting to the point where we are getting materials organized and scanned AND are working to put the technology in place to scan, store and distribute drawings and documents we are closer to the time when we want to move from “discussing options” to being able to provide more of our material remotely. (BTW, virtually every aspect of the SRHA archives we have today, quality of the facility, access, location, etc. is the result of SRHA’s relationship with TVRM. Our experience since moving to Chattanooga and discussions with multiple other railroad historical groups convinces us the SRHA archives is in as good a situation as any other group…..for the present and long term!)

(Note!!: We purchased, received, and setup a large format color scanner this past weekend…cost about $8,000. Donations to defray that expense are certainly welcome! Even for people that could never visit the archives, archives donations and SRHA membership, are meaningful ways to support SRHA’s/TVRM's efforts to preserve SR history.)

Rather than try to list anything as pro or con reasons for making material available remotely on a larger scale, let me simply pose some (of my own) comments and ask for everyone’s opinions and feedback:

Re: "and all of the scanned material at the archive even) should be a benefit of membership”:
Almost the entire amount of SRHA member “dues” pays to print and mail “TIES”. (Revenue from hobby shop sales goes directly to White River.)

Said differently, SRHA membership monies have been a very small factor in acquiring, moving or housing our collections for more than 30 years. Some dollar amounts may be useful: SRHA has paid more than $100,000 for purchased collections and probably about the same amount to pack, move and store them. (Note that this does not include travel, truck rentals, storage fees, etc. that were donated by individuals.) Those amounts came from a combination of Grab sales and cash donations….not annual membership fees. (SRHA member donations that helped TVRM purchase the archives building are in the area of $400,000.)

Add to those dollar costs the many hours of work by SRHA volunteers over those 25+ years and ask the question, “How much of a "free ride” should be available today? How do we deal with those questions and make archives material available to Southern Railway modelers, researchers and historians?

Re: Scanning and organizing….
….are labor intensive, boring and even mind numbing tasks. How can they be done to develop digital archives? (We could bring in, and pay, people to do that work but how would that be funded?)

I think this is enough for everyone to get the idea of the kinds of questions and issue we are dealing with. Comments and ideas are welcome, either via the .io groups or to archives@....

Ike



On Aug 23, 2021, at 7:22 AM, Rob Wingo <robertawingo@...> wrote:

still have a few dozen from my dad and they are a fascinating look into the past.   However….

I am not sure I would buy more than a few because I have enough stuff and as they are interesting I am not sure I really wanna read an entire year of the magazine without knowing some content and that is even more work than scanning and mailing.  Is this a fund raising venture for the SHRA or just being provided as a service to the community with cost recovery?

If its just a service I will suggest another avenue.  Since I live 500 miles from TVRM and would rarely get a chance to come dig through the archive  I think a web publication available to all SHRA members of the material ( and all of the scanned material at the archive even) should be a benefit of membership.  I’d feel very comfortable raising the yearly dues ($1-$10?) to pay for it.  I would also like to upload some of my father’s material for all members to see rather than sitting in my basement.  I’d guess alot of members would contribute also.

I’d like to know what our new SHRA webmaster thinks of a searchable database of material from the archive as it becomes available where all
members could log in and view it.  

-Rob