Topics

locked Vulcan 40


Quay Beck
 

Has anyone ever modeled the Souern Vulcan 40? 
Anyone have any pictures?


Warren Calloway
 



SOU 40 "The Vulcan" at Birmingham, 11/3/46 Photo by F. E. Ardrey, Jr., of B’ham WARREN CALLOWAY COLLECTION 

On Aug 12, 2020, at 5:06 PM, Quay Beck via groups.io <quay@...> wrote:

Has anyone ever modeled the Souern Vulcan 40? 
Anyone have any pictures?


Brent Greer
 

This was done in brass some years ago by Precision Scale along with The Cracker.  

Brent


Dr. J. Brent Greer


From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io> on behalf of Warren Calloway <wcalloway@...>
Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2020 10:46 PM
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Vulcan 40
 


SOU 40 "The Vulcan" at Birmingham, 11/3/46 Photo by F. E. Ardrey, Jr., of B’ham WARREN CALLOWAY COLLECTION 

On Aug 12, 2020, at 5:06 PM, Quay Beck via groups.io <quay@...> wrote:

Has anyone ever modeled the Souern Vulcan 40? 
Anyone have any pictures?


Kevin von der Lippe
 

It is a very nice model, easy to add DCC, but it does require broad curves…

 

Kevin W. von der Lippe

Oak Ridge, NC


John Stewart
 

Hi folks

Does The Vulcan have 3 axle or 2 axle trucks?

John Stewart
Birmingham AL


Robert Hanson
 

As built - one each.  A six-wheel power truck on the front, a four-wheel non-powered truck on the rear.

Bob Hanson
Loganville, GA


-----Original Message-----
From: John Stewart <jstew@...>
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Aug 13, 2020 9:29 am
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Vulcan 40

Hi folks

Does The Vulcan have 3 axle or 2 axle trucks?

John Stewart
Birmingham AL




Robert Hanson
 

Actually, I got it backwards - as built, the FM cars had a four-wheel lead truck and a six wheel trailing truck.  I believe the six-wheel truck was powered, but I am not certain.

Ready, fire, aim.

Sorry about the earlier mis-information.

Bob Hanson
Loganville, GA


-----Original Message-----
From: John Stewart <jstew@...>
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Aug 13, 2020 9:29 am
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Vulcan 40

Hi folks

Does The Vulcan have 3 axle or 2 axle trucks?

John Stewart
Birmingham AL




jackvaradi
 

Where could I find more info on "The Vulcan"?
Thanks,
Jack Varadi


John Stewart
 

Hi Bob

Thanks for info and update

That seems to agree with model on Brass Trains website.

Proto Photo appears to have 3 axles front and rear... But not sure

John Stewart
Birmingham, AL


John Stewart
 

Hi folks

Got curious.

Per RR Picture Archives, AGS Vulcan 40, 3 axle trucks were ADDED to all 6 of SRy "doodlebugs" in 1943-44.

Interesting story, learned something new...

John Stewart
Birmingham, AL

On Aug 13, 2020, at 8:45 AM, John Stewart <@bhamrails> wrote:

Hi Bob

Thanks for info and update

That seems to agree with model on Brass Trains website.

Proto Photo appears to have 3 axles front and rear... But not sure

John Stewart
Birmingham, AL

Sent from my iPhone


Robert Hanson
 

Yes, apparently they were re-trucked several times in their career.

The promotional brochures I have (Cracker and Goldenrod) show a four-wheel lead truck and a six-wheel rear truck.

I've seen photos of the units with two six-wheel trucks, and (I believe - not certain) with two four-wheel trucks.

I have several negatives of these units, but I cannot dig them up just now.

Bob


-----Original Message-----
From: John Stewart <jstew@...>
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Aug 13, 2020 9:45 am
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Vulcan 40

Hi Bob

Thanks for info and update

That seems to agree with model on Brass Trains website.

Proto Photo appears to have 3 axles front and rear...  But not sure

John Stewart
Birmingham, AL




George Eichelberger
 

Jack:

There is a lot (!) of material on the F-M motor cars in the SRHA archives; spec, construction photos and information on their operations from start until the trains were discontinued. There is plenty of material for someone to produce full size TIES articles on the equipment and the trains.

To get our archives material organized, scanned and used…people need to help at the SRHA archives work sessions. If anyone cannot get to Chattanooga, consider making a donation. When things open up, we can pay students to help.

Ike



On Aug 13, 2020, at 7:56 AM, jackvaradi via groups.io <jackvaradi@...> wrote:

Where could I find more info on "The Vulcan"?
Thanks,
Jack Varadi


George Eichelberger
 

The StLCCo literature describes “ 6 Wheel motor truck at the rear of motor car” and “ 4 Wheel pilot truck at the front….” Both had 33” wheels and roller bearings. The number of wheels and axles does seem reversed as weight on the front truck was 64 tons, the rear 51 tons.

Coaches were “Jim Crow” with two “compartments” front 32 passengers, rear 44 passengers and four toilets, length 70’ 6"

Ike



On Aug 13, 2020, at 10:12 AM, Robert Hanson via groups.io <RHanson669@...> wrote:

Yes, apparently they were re-trucked several times in their career.

The promotional brochures I have (Cracker and Goldenrod) show a four-wheel lead truck and a six-wheel rear truck.

I've seen photos of the units with two six-wheel trucks, and (I believe - not certain) with two four-wheel trucks.

I have several negatives of these units, but I cannot dig them up just now.

Bob


-----Original Message-----
From: John Stewart <jstew@...>
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Aug 13, 2020 9:45 am
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Vulcan 40

Hi Bob

Thanks for info and update

That seems to agree with model on Brass Trains website.

Proto Photo appears to have 3 axles front and rear...  But not sure

John Stewart
Birmingham, AL





Bill Schafer
 

Power truck at rear was A-1-A, with only two of the three axles powered. My understanding is that it spread the weight on drivers sufficiently to keep that weight under 45 tons. That way, SOU could get by with a motorman only and was not obligated to staff the trains with firemen. I think the unions fought this but lost in arbitration - we should have documentation somewhere to confirm this.

—Bill

On Aug 13, 2020, at 11:41, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:

The StLCCo literature describes “ 6 Wheel motor truck at the rear of motor car” and “ 4 Wheel pilot truck at the front….” Both had 33” wheels and roller bearings. The number of wheels and axles does seem reversed as weight on the front truck was 64 tons, the rear 51 tons.

Coaches were “Jim Crow” with two “compartments” front 32 passengers, rear 44 passengers and four toilets, length 70’ 6"

Ike



On Aug 13, 2020, at 10:12 AM, Robert Hanson via groups.io <RHanson669@...> wrote:

Yes, apparently they were re-trucked several times in their career.

The promotional brochures I have (Cracker and Goldenrod) show a four-wheel lead truck and a six-wheel rear truck.

I've seen photos of the units with two six-wheel trucks, and (I believe - not certain) with two four-wheel trucks.

I have several negatives of these units, but I cannot dig them up just now.

Bob


-----Original Message-----
From: John Stewart <jstew@...>
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Aug 13, 2020 9:45 am
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Vulcan 40

Hi Bob

Thanks for info and update

That seems to agree with model on Brass Trains website.

Proto Photo appears to have 3 axles front and rear...  But not sure

John Stewart
Birmingham, AL






Kevin Centers
 

Ike,

Were these coaches the steel sheethed wooden cars, or am I thinking of something else?

Kevin


On Aug 13, 2020, at 11:41 AM, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:

 The StLCCo literature describes “ 6 Wheel motor truck at the rear of motor car” and “ 4 Wheel pilot truck at the front….” Both had 33” wheels and roller bearings. The number of wheels and axles does seem reversed as weight on the front truck was 64 tons, the rear 51 tons.

Coaches were “Jim Crow” with two “compartments” front 32 passengers, rear 44 passengers and four toilets, length 70’ 6"

Ike



On Aug 13, 2020, at 10:12 AM, Robert Hanson via groups.io <RHanson669@...> wrote:

Yes, apparently they were re-trucked several times in their career.

The promotional brochures I have (Cracker and Goldenrod) show a four-wheel lead truck and a six-wheel rear truck.

I've seen photos of the units with two six-wheel trucks, and (I believe - not certain) with two four-wheel trucks.

I have several negatives of these units, but I cannot dig them up just now.

Bob


-----Original Message-----
From: John Stewart <jstew@...>
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Aug 13, 2020 9:45 am
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Vulcan 40

Hi Bob

Thanks for info and update

That seems to agree with model on Brass Trains website.

Proto Photo appears to have 3 axles front and rear...  But not sure

John Stewart
Birmingham, AL





George Eichelberger
 

Kevin:

They were built by StLCCo with the “power” car (note attached). The coaches outlived the powered units and were used as coaches in regular passenger service after the diesel “trains” were taken out of service (we have the assignments somewhere).

Bill’s comment about keeping the weight below what would require a firemen explains why the Southern never seemed to know exactly how to describe them. “Streamliners” was out of the question for two reasons; the Union Pacific apparently trademarked that term when it introduced its original articulated diesel trains. Those trains really turned up the heat on having Firemen in diesel locos. I don’t remember the details of how that came out but apparently it was agreed that  “Streamliners” would require and Engineer and Fireman.

The Southern was always concerned that no one should use that term for their F-M trains as they worried it would be used as justification for a two man crew.

We have more than enough material on the power cars and coaches to do a great TIES article (or Classic Trains?) AND as complete histories on their passenger routes until they were discontinued for another full article. The “Cracker” (Atlanta to Brunswick, GA) is the largest “train-off” file of the bunch. As a “beloved” Intra-state operation, the GA PUC would not allow the railroad to discontinue the train. A Judge in GA liked to ride the Cracker’s Pullman to Brunswick and probably did more to keep the train (and heavyweight sleeper) running than anyone.

I realize I sound like a broken record but SRHA is only able to publish this kind of information if people will help with our archives (cash or labor).

Ike



On Aug 13, 2020, at 12:40 PM, Kevin Centers <klcenters@...> wrote:

Ike,

Were these coaches the steel sheethed wooden cars, or am I thinking of something else?

Kevin


On Aug 13, 2020, at 11:41 AM, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:

 The StLCCo literature describes “ 6 Wheel motor truck at the rear of motor car” and “ 4 Wheel pilot truck at the front….” Both had 33” wheels and roller bearings. The number of wheels and axles does seem reversed as weight on the front truck was 64 tons, the rear 51 tons.

Coaches were “Jim Crow” with two “compartments” front 32 passengers, rear 44 passengers and four toilets, length 70’ 6"

Ike



On Aug 13, 2020, at 10:12 AM, Robert Hanson via groups.io <RHanson669@...> wrote:

Yes, apparently they were re-trucked several times in their career.

The promotional brochures I have (Cracker and Goldenrod) show a four-wheel lead truck and a six-wheel rear truck.

I've seen photos of the units with two six-wheel trucks, and (I believe - not certain) with two four-wheel trucks.

I have several negatives of these units, but I cannot dig them up just now.

Bob


-----Original Message-----
From: John Stewart <jstew@...>
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Aug 13, 2020 9:45 am
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Vulcan 40

Hi Bob

Thanks for info and update

That seems to agree with model on Brass Trains website.

Proto Photo appears to have 3 axles front and rear...  But not sure

John Stewart
Birmingham, AL






Bill Schafer
 

The Brotherhoods’ National Diesel-Electric Agreement of 1937 established the less-than-45 ton limit on drivers and specifically required firemen on “streamliners” (regardless of the UP’s trademark). SOU deliberately insisted that the StLCCo train was not a streamliner for this reason, and occasionally corrected people who called them such. Arbitration went against the Brothers in 1948 and, for a final time, in 1948. But that agreement is why the early FTs were drawbar-connected. See TIES Magazine, 2019-2, p. 21.

As far as I know, SOU did not operate the FM-StLCCo trains with firemen.

—Bill

On Aug 13, 2020, at 15:24, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:

Kevin:

They were built by StLCCo with the “power” car (note attached). The coaches outlived the powered units and were used as coaches in regular passenger service after the diesel “trains” were taken out of service (we have the assignments somewhere).

Bill’s comment about keeping the weight below what would require a firemen explains why the Southern never seemed to know exactly how to describe them. “Streamliners” was out of the question for two reasons; the Union Pacific apparently trademarked that term when it introduced its original articulated diesel trains. Those trains really turned up the heat on having Firemen in diesel locos. I don’t remember the details of how that came out but apparently it was agreed that  “Streamliners” would require and Engineer and Fireman.

The Southern was always concerned that no one should use that term for their F-M trains as they worried it would be used as justification for a two man crew.

We have more than enough material on the power cars and coaches to do a great TIES article (or Classic Trains?) AND as complete histories on their passenger routes until they were discontinued for another full article. The “Cracker” (Atlanta to Brunswick, GA) is the largest “train-off” file of the bunch. As a “beloved” Intra-state operation, the GA PUC would not allow the railroad to discontinue the train. A Judge in GA liked to ride the Cracker’s Pullman to Brunswick and probably did more to keep the train (and heavyweight sleeper) running than anyone.

I realize I sound like a broken record but SRHA is only able to publish this kind of information if people will help with our archives (cash or labor).

Ike

<StLCCo diesel trains back cover.jpeg>


On Aug 13, 2020, at 12:40 PM, Kevin Centers <klcenters@...> wrote:

Ike,

Were these coaches the steel sheethed wooden cars, or am I thinking of something else?

Kevin


On Aug 13, 2020, at 11:41 AM, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:

 The StLCCo literature describes “ 6 Wheel motor truck at the rear of motor car” and “ 4 Wheel pilot truck at the front….” Both had 33” wheels and roller bearings. The number of wheels and axles does seem reversed as weight on the front truck was 64 tons, the rear 51 tons.

Coaches were “Jim Crow” with two “compartments” front 32 passengers, rear 44 passengers and four toilets, length 70’ 6"

Ike



On Aug 13, 2020, at 10:12 AM, Robert Hanson via groups.io <RHanson669@...> wrote:

Yes, apparently they were re-trucked several times in their career.

The promotional brochures I have (Cracker and Goldenrod) show a four-wheel lead truck and a six-wheel rear truck.

I've seen photos of the units with two six-wheel trucks, and (I believe - not certain) with two four-wheel trucks.

I have several negatives of these units, but I cannot dig them up just now.

Bob


-----Original Message-----
From: John Stewart <jstew@...>
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Aug 13, 2020 9:45 am
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Vulcan 40

Hi Bob

Thanks for info and update

That seems to agree with model on Brass Trains website.

Proto Photo appears to have 3 axles front and rear...  But not sure

John Stewart
Birmingham, AL







Kyle Shannon
 

Kevin, Ike

There were several coaches that were rebuilt as additional trailers for these trains in addition to the one each included with each power car (MT-1 through 4, 40 and 41). They were several of the coaches from the generation preceding the all steel coaches, one of which being (original) 1367 (1051 was retired in 1964 just before steam program and renumbered to 1367 as it was brought back for the steam program in 1966, reason unknown for the renumbering as the original 1367 was scrapped after retirement in 1957). Photos from TVRM collection.Inline image


Inline image


On Thursday, August 13, 2020, 12:40:17 PM EDT, Kevin Centers <klcenters@...> wrote:


Ike,

Were these coaches the steel sheethed wooden cars, or am I thinking of something else?

Kevin


On Aug 13, 2020, at 11:41 AM, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:

 The StLCCo literature describes “ 6 Wheel motor truck at the rear of motor car” and “ 4 Wheel pilot truck at the front….” Both had 33” wheels and roller bearings. The number of wheels and axles does seem reversed as weight on the front truck was 64 tons, the rear 51 tons.

Coaches were “Jim Crow” with two “compartments” front 32 passengers, rear 44 passengers and four toilets, length 70’ 6"

Ike



On Aug 13, 2020, at 10:12 AM, Robert Hanson via groups.io <RHanson669@...> wrote:

Yes, apparently they were re-trucked several times in their career.

The promotional brochures I have (Cracker and Goldenrod) show a four-wheel lead truck and a six-wheel rear truck.

I've seen photos of the units with two six-wheel trucks, and (I believe - not certain) with two four-wheel trucks.

I have several negatives of these units, but I cannot dig them up just now.

Bob


-----Original Message-----
From: John Stewart <jstew@...>
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Aug 13, 2020 9:45 am
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Vulcan 40

Hi Bob

Thanks for info and update

That seems to agree with model on Brass Trains website.

Proto Photo appears to have 3 axles front and rear...  But not sure

John Stewart
Birmingham, AL





C J Wyatt
 

Kyle, thanks for the pictures of a trailer which came with the motorcar and a Southern' homebuilt one.

Southern did four of its own from its 1909 standard coaches (see attached diagram). I believe those coaches could best be characterized as composite construction. Think of the lower part as a steel gondola, but wood above and with canvas roofs. The rebuild added a steel roof and air conditioning. The Rivarossi/IHC/AHM 1920s Heavyweight Coach is based on the Southern 1909 coach, so that model could be used for a quick kitbash.

If the extra trailer was not enough to overload the FM Motorcars, Southern also rebuilt some ancient baggage-express cars for use on the trains. A diagram of those is also attached.

Jack Wyatt


Kyle Shannon
 

Thanks Jack for that, I must have skipped the baggage express in the diagram books, didn’t know about it. If I had seen it with the 1367 picture from TVRM’s collection I would have probably scanned it too. Maybe (probably) a similar “builder’s” photo of it is somewhere in the SRHA archive. I’ll have to look for it sometime.

Kyle




On Wednesday, August 19, 2020, 12:43 AM, C J Wyatt <cjwyatt@...> wrote:

Kyle, thanks for the pictures of a trailer which came with the motorcar and a Southern' homebuilt one.

Southern did four of its own from its 1909 standard coaches (see attached diagram). I believe those coaches could best be characterized as composite construction. Think of the lower part as a steel gondola, but wood above and with canvas roofs. The rebuild added a steel roof and air conditioning. The Rivarossi/IHC/AHM 1920s Heavyweight Coach is based on the Southern 1909 coach, so that model could be used for a quick kitbash.

If the extra trailer was not enough to overload the FM Motorcars, Southern also rebuilt some ancient baggage-express cars for use on the trains. A diagram of those is also attached.

Jack Wyatt